Value of: Emelin to Calgary ?

[ohmyjlord]

Could CGY use a defenseman like Emelin ? I stoped by the line-up thread on the CGY board, and according to some, it looks like there could be a spot open on the left side.

I always thought Emelin would be a much more effective defenseman in the West.

Now, I'm not nearly familiar enough with the organization depth to judge the appeal of an Emelin for Calgary, so don't take any offense to my proposal. But what about...

Calgary gets: Alexei Emelin
Montreal gets: Michael Ferland and Ladislav Smid

Calgary gets a proven defensive d-man to play on the left side, who can fill a spot on the second or third pairing. Giordano, Emelin, Jokipakka on the left side, Brodie, Hamilton and Wideman on the right. The addition of Chiasson could make Ferland disposable, and with Smid's contract off the books, along with Wideman and Engelland going out or being signed to less expensive deals next year, Emelin 2nd year of contract might not be that hard to fit in. The move itself also allows CGY to save a few $100,000 for this year, assuming Smid doesn't go on LTIR.

Montreal gets a fierce winger to bring some much needed energy to their bottom-6 and an expiring contract in Smid, who they could either a) play if healthy in a shutdown role or b) place on the LTIR, if not healthy, for an almost full cap relief.

Would that make sense ?

Click to read more...

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

No thanks. We are better off keeping Ferland and Smid.

 

[ohmyjlord]

Considering your username, I would've been shocked to see you feel otherwise.

Edit: What's the status of Smid anyway ? Is he healthy enough to play this season ?

 

[1989]

First thought: Don't like Emelin's contract, although the player himself is fine. 4.1m cap hit for this season and the next.

Second thought: For Ferland and Smid? I'd think about it, but Smid is probably LTIR which frees up 3.5m for Calgary right now.
Calgary has a wide selection of depth forward prospects knocking on the door - Hathaway, Hamilton, Poirier, Klimchuk, Pribyl, and possibly even Jankowski or Tkachuk. Ferland is likely not the difference-maker in terms of making the playoffs.

Might do it but contract is the primary reason why Calgary doesn't.

 

[blankall]

No.........

 

[Bhurak]

Yeah, with that contract, I'd rather see which of our young guys might be knocking at the door.

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

Not interested in that contract, the Flames will probably have to LTIR Smid who's not likely to play again.

Emelin isn't anywhere near worth that contract and I'd rather not have that on the books for 2 years.

I think that I'd rather keep Ferland.

 

[longchange]

If Calgary can put Smid on LTIR then yeah there's definitely no reason to do this. As well, Calgary has enough LHD that I'd rather see be given a chance to play than Emelin.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Emelin for Engelland + Bollig

 

[untouchable21]

From an outsiders perspective, it would be kind of interesting to see Emelin in Calgary because if I remember correctly, he always had a way of getting under Lucic's skin.

 

[ohmyjlord]

If Calgary can put Smid on LTIR then yeah there's definitely no reason to do this. As well, Calgary has enough LHD that I'd rather see be given a chance to play than Emelin.

That was kind of my thought process for Emelin's second year of contract. Given what I read on the Flames board, I thought the younger guys weren't ready yet, so...

Giordano - Brodie
Emelin - Hamilton
Jokipakka - Wideman
(Engelland)

...seemed like it could make sense for this year. Then in 2017-18 (assuming Emelin isn't taken by LV), it would allow CGY to ease in guys like Wotherspoon, Kylington or Kulak for a year (though I just realized that would mean playing a lefty on the right side. Emelin did play a lot on the right side when paired with Markov, but he's much better on the left).

 

[ohmyjlord]

From an outsiders perspective, it would be kind of interesting to see Emelin in Calgary because if I remember correctly, he always had a way of getting under Lucic's skin.

Ahahaha. Sure did !

 

[Some Other Flame]

Flames don't have the cap space to take Emelin unless one of Wideman or Stajan (or both) is heading back the other way. And definitely would not give up Ferland in any deal for Emelin. Lastly, Wotherspoon has to go through waivers so he probably gets a spot anyway.

 

[ohmyjlord]

Flames don't have the cap space to take Emelin unless one of Wideman or Stajan (or both) is heading back the other way. And definitely would not give up Ferland in any deal for Emelin. Lastly, Wotherspoon has to go through waivers so he probably gets a spot anyway.

I can't argue with the last two statement, like I said, I'm not familiar enough with your organization to judge that kind of things. Though financially, it seemed like it would've been sustainable...unless they're working on a budget. But I guess it all depends on Monahan and Gaudreau upcoming deals, which could complicate things for year-2 of Emelin's contract.

 

[Some Other Flame]

I can't argue with the last two statement, like I said, I'm not familiar enough with your organization to judge that kind of things. Though financially, it seemed like it would've been sustainable...unless they're working on a budget. But I guess it all depends on Monahan and Gaudreau upcoming deals, which could complicate things for year-2 of Emelin's contract.

The problem is for next season, not the year after that. Right now, they have 14.9M in cap space but Gaudreau and Monahan need new contracts and they won't be bridge deals. So, budget approximately 13-14M for both of them, leaving the Flames with 0.9 to 1.9M left over. Just not enough space left for Emelin's 4.1M cap hit without sending some salary back.

The following season, Wideman (5.25M), Smid (3.5M), and Engelland's (2.9M) deal s are done, but Bennett, Ferland, Elliott and Johnson will all need a new contracts. So, there really just isn't any room for Emelin unless Stajan is heading Montreal's way. And even then, the Flames would have to deal Wideman somewhere first otherwise they're spending waaaay too much on their backend.

 

[ohmyjlord]

The problem is for next season, not the following year. Right now, they have 14.9M in cap space but Gaudreau and Monahan need new contracts and they won't be bridge deals. So, budget approximately 13-14M for both of them, leaving the Flames with 0.9 to 1.9M left over. Just not enough space left for Emelin's 4.1M cap hit without sending some salary back.

Yeah, but that's $14.9m...including Smid, correct ? By trading Ferland and Smid for Emelin, the Flames would actually save an extra $250,000, while getting a 'playable' (as opposed to Smid) defenseman in their line-up. Chiasson (also included in that $14.9m calculation) takes Ferland spots.

So now you're looking at roughly $2.1m with 12 forwards, 7 defensemen and 2 goaltenders. It could get trickier next year though, depending on what the Flames' plan is regarding their goaltenders.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Yeah, but that's $14.9m...including Smid, correct ? By trading Ferland and Smid for Emelin, the Flames would actually save an extra $250,000, while getting a 'playable' (as opposed to Smid) defenseman in their line-up. Chiasson (also included in that $14.9m calculation) takes Ferland spots.

So now you're looking at roughly $2.1m with 12 forwards, 7 defensemen and 2 goaltenders. It could get trickier next year though, depending on what the Flames' plan is regarding their goaltenders.

It's 14.9M in Smid on the roster as the 7th defencemen if that's what you mean. If he's on LTIR, then the Flames can exceed the cap by an extra 3.5M, making it 18.4M in cap space more or less. And in that case, it wouldn't make sense to trade him at all.

Chiasson doesn't replace Ferland; both will be in the Flames opening day lineup. Chiasson actually just replaced Josh Jooris or Mason Raymond. So taking Ferland out means someone else would have to replace him and therefore, save nothing cap wise.

 

[Reinhart]

I don't think Calgary would be all that willing to take on Emelin. Is 'upgrading' from Jokipakka to Emelin worth a Micheal Ferland? Depends on what you think of a Micheal Ferland. In my opinion, no, especially when you factor in Jokipakka's contract with that of Emelin.

Now, Ladislav Smid - sure, it is a dead contract for the Flames right now. A healthy and playing Emelin is of course a much better option than a Smid who may or may not play this season.

I still don't think that is worth Ferland. Why? Smid (along with Wideman and Engelland) is entering his last season before becoming UFA. I would really dislike adding Emelin's contract for another year. Calgary this year will be just under the cap by the looks of it, so they don't need to do this trade. Next season, they will have even more cap flexibility. Why lose it?

I don't dislike Emelin. I just think Jokipakka can do a decent enough job next to Hamilton, and quite honestly, Engelland looked fine as a top 4 defencemen for 2 long stretches in the last 2 years (due to injury). Wotherspoon will need waivers (and will not clear). Kulak is nipping at the bud for a long look as well.

Nakladal is a guy that most Flames fans still hope the Flame re-sign, as he looked fairly good in his first season in North America, and looks like he will come fairly cheap as well. I can't see them signing him as it means they will lose Wotherspoon to waivers, so that means the Flames are more likely to trade a defencemen (Wideman) than bring another highly paid defencemen into the fold.

Out of the three notable UFA defencemen, the only one that I think will be re-signed is Engelland, as he will still be a fit on the team. I am not sure what his pricetag will be, but it will be substantially lower than Emelin's, and he will be playing bottom-pairing minutes/7th defencemen if need be. Emelin just isn't too much of a fit with what the Flames currently have, especially looking ahead to next season.

 

[ohmyjlord]

It's 14.9M in Smid on the roster as the 7th defencemen if that's what you mean. If he's on LTIR, then the Flames can exceed the cap by an extra 3.5M, making it 18.4M in cap space more or less. And in that case, it wouldn't make sense to trade him at all.

Chiasson doesn't replace Ferland; both will be in the Flames opening day lineup. Chiasson actually just replaced Josh Jooris or Mason Raymond. So taking Ferland out means someone else would have to replace him and therefore, save nothing cap wise.

For Ferland/Chiasson, I meant replacing as that energy type forward. But I get your point.

I don't think Calgary would be all that willing to take on Emelin. Is 'upgrading' from Jokipakka to Emelin worth a Micheal Ferland? Depends on what you think of a Micheal Ferland. In my opinion, no, especially when you factor in Jokipakka's contract with that of Emelin.

Now, Ladislav Smid - sure, it is a dead contract for the Flames right now. A healthy and playing Emelin is of course a much better option than a Smid who may or may not play this season.

I still don't think that is worth Ferland. Why? Smid (along with Wideman and Engelland) is entering his last season before becoming UFA. I would really dislike adding Emelin's contract for another year. Calgary this year will be just under the cap by the looks of it, so they don't need to do this trade. Next season, they will have even more cap flexibility. Why lose it?

I don't dislike Emelin. I just think Jokipakka can do a decent enough job next to Hamilton, and quite honestly, Engelland looked fine as a top 4 defencemen for 2 long stretches in the last 2 years (due to injury). Wotherspoon will need waivers (and will not clear). Kulak is nipping at the bud for a long look as well.

Nakladal is a guy that most Flames fans still hope the Flame re-sign, as he looked fairly good in his first season in North America, and looks like he will come fairly cheap as well. I can't see them signing him as it means they will lose Wotherspoon to waivers, so that means the Flames are more likely to trade a defencemen (Wideman) than bring another highly paid defencemen into the fold.

Out of the three notable UFA defencemen, the only one that I think will be re-signed is Engelland, as he will still be a fit on the team. I am not sure what his pricetag will be, but it will be substantially lower than Emelin's, and he will be playing bottom-pairing minutes/7th defencemen if need be. Emelin just isn't too much of a fit with what the Flames currently have, especially looking ahead to next season.

Okay, and thanks for that, I understand your roster structure a little bit now.

Reading the line-up page on the Flames board helped a bit, but it seems like Jokipakka and your younger LDs are more advanced than I originally thought they were.

I was under the impression that Jokipakka could be ready to play second pairing, but wasn't necessarily a lock. So alternating Emelin/Jokipakka, depending on who's hot, on your 2nd/3rd seemed like a potentially good idea from an outsider's perspective, even at $4.1m.

Then next year, Jokipakka would've locked the 2nd pairing role, leaving Emelin to alternate with a Wotherspoon, Kulak or Kylington, which isn't a bad situation, even at $4.1m...in fact, that's pretty much the role Emelin is playing for us this year, and trading him right now would surely weaken our defense, considering he's the only physical defenseman we have on the left side. The problem from Montreal is carrying Emelin next year, as he probably won't have a spot in our line-up, assuming Markov re-signs to end his career in Montreal, and Sergachev jumps in the NHL right away.

But yeah, if your younger guys are as advanced as most of you are saying, and now that I know that Wotherspoon will have to go through waivers (something I didn't consider), I guess my proposal doesn't really make sense.

...oh well, too bad. I was intrigued by the possibility of playing Ferland and Shaw on the same line.

 

[Kale Hulls]

Is Emelin a cap dump at this point?

 

[Kraken Jokes]

Is Emelin a cap dump at this point?

No. Up to now he's been Montreal's #4 defenseman (20min/game). He's one of the best hitters in the game and is solid defensively for the most part but seems to lack any offensive vision at all and still sometimes takes risks to make a hit. Beaulieu may pass him on the depth chart this year but we've been saying that the last 2 years and it hasn't happened.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Is Emelin a cap dump at this point?

Not a cap dump as in he's useless and commends a big AAV. He is still very useful and a solid defenseman. He is one of the league's best hitters. He is sound defensively and helps on the rush. People don't think of him as someone who can carry the puck out of his zone, but he's good at that as well.

He isn't worth 4.1M in all honesty. Not one of MB's best contracts but I don't blame him so much for it. At the time of the signing, our defensive depth was not impressive. There were no Petry and Gilbert to help stabilize the back end. Beaulieu and Pateryn were in AHL (Beaulieu going up and down between NHL and AHL) and Barberio was in the Lightning's organization. At the time of this signing, we had Markov entering his final year before being a UFA, Subban his final year before becoming an RFA. We had Josh Gorges, Raphael Diaz, and Douglas Murray as our defensive corps on opening night. Nothing to really write home about.

Being a physical player and Habs not exactly having much of that element in their line-up at the time, it became more a case of Habs needing Emelin than the other way around. Now with Weber and Pateryn, we have two guys who can hit, are sound defensively, and both have rocket shots. It makes Emelin expendable. It also helps that Beaulieu and Barberio can carry the LD along with Markov.

There are teams who can use Emelin. After all, there have been rumors that teams have called Habs inquiring about him. But at 4.1, I don't think he's going anywhere without salary coming back.

 

[Lunatik]

Could CGY use a defenseman like Emelin ? I stoped by the line-up thread on the CGY board, and according to some, it looks like there could be a spot open on the left side.

I always thought Emelin would be a much more effective defenseman in the West.

Now, I'm not nearly familiar enough with the organization depth to judge the appeal of an Emelin for Calgary, so don't take any offense to my proposal. But what about...

Calgary gets: Alexei Emelin
Montreal gets: Michael Ferland and Ladislav Smid

Calgary gets a proven defensive d-man to play on the left side, who can fill a spot on the second or third pairing. Giordano, Emelin, Jokipakka on the left side, Brodie, Hamilton and Wideman on the right. The addition of Chiasson could make Ferland disposable, and with Smid's contract off the books, along with Wideman and Engelland going out or being signed to less expensive deals next year, Emelin 2nd year of contract might not be that hard to fit in. The move itself also allows CGY to save a few $100,000 for this year, assuming Smid doesn't go on LTIR.

Montreal gets a fierce winger to bring some much needed energy to their bottom-6 and an expiring contract in Smid, who they could either a) play if healthy in a shutdown role or b) place on the LTIR, if not healthy, for an almost full cap relief.

Would that make sense ?

I would pass, in large part because it would give us too many bodies on the blueline since it appears Smid is going to likely be on LTIR.

That said the Flames have been making a point in getting players that are harder to play against (Brouwer, Chiasson), so Emelin would fit that direction, but moving a young Ferland would be counter productive to it.

The only trade that would make sense for Calgary would be Emelin for Wideman (or maybe Stajan if the Flames could move Wideman elsewhere), but I have my doubts that either would be what Montreal is seeking.

Emelin for Engelland + Bollig

My initial instinct was to say no as the Flames really need Engelland and his physical play and I feel that Emelin in addition to Engelland on the backend would make them much harder to play against. But on second thought Emelin would be an upgrade on Engelland, balance our LD/RD and I think would be a solid partner for Hamilton.

That said, I see no incentive other than Engelland having an expiring contract as incentive and I doubt that would move Emelin for a downgrade just to shed the final year of his deal. The Flames would likely keep Bollig and need to offer some other incentive (pick? prospect?) for Montreal to make the deal.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Emelin for Engelland + Bollig

I like Emelin. Think he would do well as a #4 in the west. Can't see Montreal doing this though.

 

[cave troll]

Nobody wants him.