Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - Second Half Pete

[mathonwy]

NO ONE has said that the team's horrible management hasn't had an effect on the players. Every single poster has said or alluded to the fact that there were many large distractions that can negatively effect players - they are human.

What's being debated is that players deliberately or purposely played poorly to have management fired.

So like....try again? Read the posts thoroughly no one has disagreed with what you're saying.

And why is it so hard to understand that hockey players are humans who hate management more than us plebs on a hockey forum?

And why are players supposed to be professionals while ownership can spaz out and throw shit on the wall and piss their diapers like an infant?

The Aquilinis f***ed this team royally but the players and fans just have grin and bend over and take it?

I don’t understand why it’s the same group of Benning supporters that also think Petey should just suck it up and be a professional and do his job and continue to enable the morons in charge.

Y’all most love loser hockey.

 

[logan5]

Holy crap. The comments are getting crazier as the season draws to an end.

 

[sting101]

NO ONE has said that the team's horrible management hasn't had an effect on the players. Every single poster has said or alluded to the fact that there were many large distractions that can negatively effect players - they are human.

What's being debated is that players deliberately or purposely played poorly to have management fired.

So like....try again? Read the posts thoroughly no one has disagreed with what you're saying.

Plenty of examples like Miller at 20/21 start. How about Dubois in Columbus or Laine in Winnipeg or Toronto with Babcock at the end of that shit show.

It wouldn't be the first time players took a attitude of fuxx these guys i'm not running through a wall for them. They can decide who they want to keep around.

How you want to interpret that when it comes to "deliberately playing poorly to have management fired" i suppose comes down to semantics but it's rare that a discontent, unhappy and confused group would end with no one getting traded or fired. I mean were not just talking about a punch the clock kind of job here. Not playing at your best generally doesn't end well for someone rather quickly in the NHL where day to day operations and results are being scrutinized 24/7

I don't believe it was ever a decision that was verbalized by certain groups of players or individuals like Pettersson and maybe that is someone else's argument which i would agree with you if that's the case but what happened here certainly was a group that wasn't going to just keep on keeping on and they would have known their play was leading to changes.

 

[strattonius]

Plenty of examples like Miller at 20/21 start. How about Dubois in Columbus or Laine in Winnipeg or Toronto with Babcock at the end of that shit show.

It wouldn't be the first time players took a attitude of fuxx these guys i'm not running through a wall for them. They can decide who they want to keep around.

How you want to interpret that when it comes to "deliberately playing poorly to have management fired" i suppose comes down to semantics but it's rare that a discontent, unhappy and confused group would end with no one getting traded or fired. I mean were not just talking about a punch the clock kind of job here. Not playing at your best generally doesn't end well for someone rather quickly in the NHL where day to day operations and results are being scrutinized 24/7

I don't believe it was ever a decision that was verbalized by certain groups of players or individuals like Pettersson and maybe that is someone else's argument which i would agree with you if that's the case but what happened here certainly was a group that wasn't going to just keep on keeping on and they would have known their play was leading to changes.

You don't get it.

Those players you used as an example are not proof of deliberately or purposely sabotaging their own career.

There's no question or doubt Pettersson and whoever else you want to parlay in that group were playing poorly because of their displeasure with management.

That is different than doing it deliberately or purposely. You're not understanding the difference so I'll stop repeating myself.

 

[strattonius]

And why is it so hard to understand that hockey players are humans who hate management more than us plebs on a hockey forum?

And why are players supposed to be professionals while ownership can spaz out and throw shit on the wall and piss their diapers like an infant?

The Aquilinis f***ed this team royally but the players and fans just have grin and bend over and take it?

I don’t understand why it’s the same group of Benning supporters that also think Petey should just suck it up and be a professional and do his job and continue to enable the morons in charge.

Y’all most love loser hockey.

You're incapable of following the actual debate.

No doubt bad management and ownership caused a giant turd to be layed on the season. Won't argue that.

 

[Spectrefire]

Why does the last few pages of this thread read like something from a QAnon spinoff forum?

PAnon

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Plenty of examples like Miller at 20/21 start. How about Dubois in Columbus or Laine in Winnipeg or Toronto with Babcock at the end of that shit show.

It wouldn't be the first time players took a attitude of fuxx these guys i'm not running through a wall for them. They can decide who they want to keep around.

How you want to interpret that when it comes to "deliberately playing poorly to have management fired" i suppose comes down to semantics but it's rare that a discontent, unhappy and confused group would end with no one getting traded or fired. I mean were not just talking about a punch the clock kind of job here. Not playing at your best generally doesn't end well for someone rather quickly in the NHL where day to day operations and results are being scrutinized 24/7

I don't believe it was ever a decision that was verbalized by certain groups of players or individuals like Pettersson and maybe that is someone else's argument which i would agree with you if that's the case but what happened here certainly was a group that wasn't going to just keep on keeping on and they would have known their play was leading to changes.

Leading to changes when??? We just watched year after year of shitshow hockey with incompetence in the entire org. from the top of the management end to the coaching staff and beyond.
"generally doesn't end well quickly". Say what? Yeah I guess for someone, you're right there were changes after every shit season in the last 8 years. We could revisit who left (and who came back) at the end of the year for most of the last decade, but I personally don't have the energy for this exercise.
Jim Benning was here for 8 years, most of them sucked, who gives a shit if they were being scrutinized 24/7 if the only guy who's opinion mattered (FA) didn't know what any of it meant.

You're playing a hindsight is 20/20 game....we know that this year Benning DID get canned therefore......

 

[Tomatoes11]

While I don’t think he necessarily played bad to get management fired but who knows. The pattern is pretty clear that he is pacing himself now. Whether or not it’s due to bad management, injuries, or playing for a bad team we can only speculate.

He went balls to the walls his rookie season and playoff bubble until two things happened. His rookie season it was probably due to injuries or just being worn out Swedish rookie style because they play way less games than 82 in the SHL. In the bubble it was putting up over a ppg, still losing to vegas handily(I know it was game 7 but it was as handily as a 7 game series can get), and then letting 3 key guys like Marky, Tofu, and Tanev walk making it even worse. So he was like if you can’t beat them join them type of mentality and decided to pace himself rather than go balls to wall every season.

Sort of like how I used to road rage all the time because of all the stupid and slow drivers in Van. And then I thought me raging is not going to make people suddenly drive better or faster so I’ll just cruise and drive slow too. I think this is what EP is doing. He is like this team sucks more than McMuffins oilers and he can’t even carry them. How am I supposed to carry this garbage team? Should I hurt myself and risk my career trying? So he decided to just pace himself and just worry about his next contract. If the team gets good again I’ll go balls to the walls again, if it doesn’t I’ll bounce. Let stupid Miller hurt himself trying to squeeze water from a rock. If this is his mindset I don’t blame him. I am not risking my career for this gong show. Then when we got new management it might have gave him some hope and rejuvenated him a bit.

 

[rypper]

The pattern is pretty clear that he is pacing himself now.

Uh what?

He has 17 points in his last 10 games, that's pacing himself?

 

[Tomatoes11]

Uh what?

He has 17 points in his last 10 games, that's pacing himself?

I said things changed once management was gone and things started looking a little bit better…..

He was being the key word….

 

[rypper]

I said things changed once management was gone and things started looking a little bit better…..

He was being the key word….

You're talking in the present sense though like he's doing it now. Let Miller try to squeeze water from a rock etc.

The pattern is pretty clear that he is pacing himself now.

 

[Tomatoes11]

You're talking in the present sense though like he's doing it now. Let Miller try to squeeze water from a rock etc.

Yeah and he was….. until my last sentence …

“Then when we got new management it might have gave him some hope and rejuvenated him a bit.”

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Holy crap. The comments are getting crazier as the season draws to an end.

I dont know.

Feels like there has been some pretty insane comments the past 8 years and the amount of crazy some how got cut in half around december.

 

[Icebreakers]

The 67th point is always the hardest to get.

 

[Spectrefire]

If you told someone in December that Petey was going to finish the season with career highs in goals and points, you'd be called a f***ing lunatic.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

If you told someone in December that Petey was going to finish the season with career highs in goals and points, you'd be called a f***ing lunatic.

If you told someone after his rookie season, that his career high by the end of his 4th, would be less than 70.. you'd also be called a looney.

 

[RutherPlan]

He's on the Nathan Mackinnon trajectory.

He has beaten all the hurdles and is now a consistent performer. He will have a 85-100 points next season.

 

[Grub]

If you told someone after his rookie season, that his career high by the end of his 4th, would be less than 70.. you'd also be called a looney.

Agreed. We were all comparing him to the top players in the league... remember the Petey vs Matthews thread haha. If you had said Petey would get less than 70 points in his fourth year after this rookie season you would have been bashed like no tomorrow, but here we are.

 

[Fatass]

He's on the Nathan Mackinnon trajectory.

He has beaten all the hurdles and is now a consistent performer. He will have a 85-100 points next season.

And Pettersson will have a 100 point season the following year, while being excellent defensively. His next contract will be 80+ million. If we sign Miller to a big number we will not be able to afford Pettersson.
Basically, do we want a 32 year old Miller or a 25 year old Pettersson making top dollars on our club?

 

[Hoglander]

And Pettersson will have a 100 point season the following year, while being excellent defensively. His next contract will be 80+ million. If we sign Miller to a big number we will not be able to afford Pettersson.
Basically, do we want a 32 year old Miller or a 25 year old Pettersson making top dollars on our club?

? You're saying that there would be no way to keep both EP and Miller? Completely disagree. It would take some roster juggling, but there is 2 years to figure that out. If Toronto can have 30mil tied up on 3 players, why couldn't van do 20mil for 2?

 

[tantalum]

I wish people would stop saying "professional athletes" instead of simply saying "professionals".

Professional athletes aren't really some rare breed beyond athletic ability. Like any other professional or person in the workforce they will be susceptible to issues above them, family issues, world events etc. Performance will wax and wane based on outside factors just as they do with any worker. And just like any other careers, some will be better than others at pushing those things to the side but I've yet to meet a person that is capable of doing that every time or even truly maintain 100% performance. In the NHL you are also talking about such fine margins that a tiny, tiny drop in concentration/focus/effort can be make or break. Essentially no one is immune to to it. No one. No matter how much they are paid.

For Pettersson the management and contract mess was a factor for sure but I think his injury/injury recovery was also part of the issue.

 

[tantalum]

? You're saying that there would be no way to keep both EP and Miller? Completely disagree. It would take some roster juggling, but there is 2 years to figure that out. If Toronto can have 30mil tied up on 3 players, why couldn't van do 20mil for 2?

I don't think Toronto has proven they can do it. Well sure they can be cap compliant but they haven't proven this is a good payroll structure as they have had zero post-season success.

My personal belief is you can get away with 4 players for $30-32 mil territory (like Tampa) but I'm not convinced 3/$30 mil can work (at least not until the cap begins to steadily rise again). Why I think if Edmonton doesn't make noise this year they are going to have some issues being truly relevant the next couple of years with the Nurse contract kicking in....and that is with the understanding that McDavid and Draisatl are a helluva lot better than any canuck skaters.

 

[Zarpan]

If you told someone after his rookie season, that his career high by the end of his 4th, would be less than 70.. you'd also be called a looney.

Well, he probably would have hit high-70s in 2019-2020 if there was no pandemic.

 

[arttk]

If you told someone after his rookie season, that his career high by the end of his 4th, would be less than 70.. you'd also be called a looney.

People don’t tend to project major injuries. When was the last time you hear anyone say, oh this rookie looks like a world beater and should be a 100pt player but he is definitely going to get a season ending injury and miss like 80% of the season by the time his ELC ends.

 

[Hoglander]

I don't think Toronto has proven they can do it. Well sure they can be cap compliant but they haven't proven this is a good payroll structure as they have had zero post-season success.

My personal belief is you can get away with 4 players for $30-32 mil territory (like Tampa) but I'm not convinced 3/$30 mil can work (at least not until the cap begins to steadily rise again). Why I think if Edmonton doesn't make noise this year they are going to have some issues being truly relevant the next couple of years with the Nurse contract kicking in....and that is with the understanding that McDavid and Draisatl are a helluva lot better than any canuck skaters.

Cap will be going up, and 10 mil is becoming pretty much the standard for top players. I'm not saying being totally top-heavy like the Leafs is necessarily the best route to go, but to say we can't pay both Miller and EP is wrong, imo. You certainly don't make EP expendable just because Miller got paid, you find another way.