Player Discussion Elias Lindholm

[Nucker101]

That simply not true

We acquired him so Blueger isn’t our 3C

I’m fine with him as 3C but if he provides minimal offense then I’d say it’s fair to say that the Canucks overpaid for this asset.

 

[F A N]

I don't think they did actually. They got him so they had great center ice depth. Yes it would be nice to see more offense, however, the stuff everyone wants to ignore is perhaps more important come playoff time. They were still actively looking for a top 6 winger immediately after the lindholm trade that I don't think the plan was ever for him to be a top 6 offensive difference maker. It was to provide a presence at center that could take match ups and free up the other 2 lines a bit.

We can read between the lines but we don't need to speculate when Allvin has explained his thought procesess:

I felt that our bottom-six, the way it's constructed right now and the way they're playing, have found a chemistry and identity of how to play every night and they've been very consistent... I feel our top-six needed to improve a little bit with the caliber of a player like Elias to find more consistency going down the stretch... I could see Elias and Elias — Lindholm and Pettersson — working together here, compensating each other, and bringing a little bit of difference of player type here, so I could see the coach giving them a chance to play together.

If you look at the timing of the trade (realizing that the trade didn't happen overnight), the consensus thinking here (which management seem to agree with) was that the 3rd line of Blueger, Garland, and Joshua has consistently been the team's best line with Petey needing someone to play with. There's also the idea of reuniting the Lotto Line. Center depth is great but it would be silly to our limited premium assets to upgrade Blueger and the 3rd line or acquiring a 4C. We could have easily just traded our 1st for Tanev

And who did Lindholm play on arrival? With Petey.

On paper the aquisition made sense. Lindholm gives the Canucks much more versatility than Kuzmenko. With Kuzmenko not playing well and not playing the way Tocchet wants him to play Lindholm also looked to be an upgrade offensively and that includes the PP. Aside that you have Lindholm being a RHC who can win faceoffs and PK. Lindholm also isn't a player who needs the puck on his stick but obviously has the skill and IQ to play with Petey.

I think the part where the Canucks went out looking for another top 6 winger after Lindholm was acquired is precisely because of the lack of fit. There was even talk of the Canucks trading Lindholm.

 

[mossey3535]

His defensive play is important and not to be overlooked but he can't make the same amount of money for this kind of offensive production. And he definitely can't be signed to a big raise.

 

[Pennask]

Management was clear that they were pursuing top 6 help and repeated this after the acquisition. Problem is, being a center, he's a coaches wet dream. Big faceoff guy, RHC, PK, defensively sound. So RT is going to play all his best C's down the middle and as we now see... Lindholm is centering the 3rd line.

The kick in the balls for management is that was the one line that absolutely didnt need help. Canucks arguably had the best 3rd line in the league with Blue, Garland and Joshua. So essentially, they gave up that package for something that wasn't broke and didnt need fixing and supporting the top 6 failed.

Of course there is the possibility that RT is forced to change up and Lindholm makes it to the top 6 but clearly this is how he visions the team in the playoffs. Miller, Petey and Lindholm down the middle and he is not going to swap out Petey for Lindholm in the top 6.

Can't say the trade was a flop but their intent and expectations were definitely a miss with this trade.

 

[canuckslover10]

if he can shutdown lines in the playoffs like he did to drai then hes worth it, would of been nice if he was a top 6 asset but at this point you take what you can get.

 

[arttk]

I’m fine with him as 3C but if he provides minimal offense then I’d say it’s fair to say that the Canucks overpaid for this asset.

I mean if he provides Malholtra level defense then it’s fine.

 

[Ninjadude]

Didn't like the trade when it happened and....I still hate it. Gave up way too much! We should have gotten the additional picks and prospects instead of sending them to Calgary.

 

[Freakshow]

Hopefully he’s better in the playoffs, at least offensively.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

4 points in his last 5. 5 in 6 going back to the game before he got hurt.

 

[Nucker101]

I actually like him as a fit between Garland and Joshua

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Didn't like the trade when it happened and....I still hate it. Gave up way too much! We should have gotten the additional picks and prospects instead of sending them to Calgary.

Maybe if Kuzmenkos shitty contract didnt extend to 2025.

 

[VanJack]

I actually like him as a fit between Garland and Joshua

Amen to that.....that line of Lindholm, Garland and Joshua could form a matchup nightmare for other teams, and has the potential to tip the scales in the playoffs. They might be the most dynamic 'third lines' in hockey, at the moment.

I like Lindholm centering those two far more than Blueger. But even before Lindholm arrived, that trio was still wracking up the points even though they weren't getting much out of the center position.

 

[FlowMaster]

Garland (Gaudreau lite) Lindholm Joshua (Tkachuk lite). best third line in hockey.

 

[wetcoast]

His defensive play is important and not to be overlooked but he can't make the same amount of money for this kind of offensive production. And he definitely can't be signed to a big raise.

I do wonder what his and the Canucks off season plans are but I guess alot depends on the playoffs.

The thing is that I'm worried that Dakota Joshua might be too expensive for us but we really need a guy like him and don't have anyone like him in the system either.

 

[RobertKron]

Amen to that.....that line of Lindholm, Garland and Joshua could form a matchup nightmare for other teams, and has the potential to tip the scales in the playoffs. They might be the most dynamic 'third lines' in hockey, at the moment.

I like Lindholm centering those two far more than Blueger. But even before Lindholm arrived, that trio was still wracking up the points even though they weren't getting much out of the center position.

At the time of the Lindholm trade, Blueger had 6 points in his last 10 games, 17 in 20.

 

[F A N]

At the time of the Lindholm trade, Blueger had 6 points in his last 10 games, 17 in 20.

That's why I disagreed with @tantalum . The Canucks got Lindholm thinking he could be the top 6 winger they need with added versatility that he brings.

 

[geebster]

That's why I disagreed with @tantalum . The Canucks got Lindholm thinking he could be the top 6 winger they need with added versatility that he brings.

Yeah it was clear that he would either be a top 6 wing or 2nd line C behind the Lotto line. Blueger had the 3C and was performing great until Joshua got hurt really.

May be a case of the coaching staff having a different opinion than management did. Management quite obviously brought him in to round out the top 6, while the coaches seem to prefer him at the 3C.

 

[alternate]

Yeah it was clear that he would either be a top 6 wing or 2nd line C behind the Lotto line. Blueger had the 3C and was performing great until Joshua got hurt really.

May be a case of the coaching staff having a different opinion than management did. Management quite obviously brought him in to round out the top 6, while the coaches seem to prefer him at the 3C.

Also information changed. They tried Lindholm with Petey and they didn't mesh. Both Lindholm and Tocchet have said Lindholm looks better at centre.

I agree that Lindholm was brought in to help the top 6. But a fit just didn't materialize, and Tocchet has always wanted strength down the spine. He tried going EP-JTM-Bo down the middle as well.

This lineup makes match ups challenging for the other coach. But it does depend on Petey being able to drive a line by himself.

Playoffs are a long slog. If we go on a run, I'm sure there will be times Lindholm (and probably Joshua and Garland) are used to stack the top 6. But starting out strong down the middle until it doesn't work is a good game plan (unless it leads to 1-2-3-4).

 

[RobertKron]

That's why I disagreed with @tantalum . The Canucks got Lindholm thinking he could be the top 6 winger they need with added versatility that he brings.

Kind of agree. I think that was likely an aim, but IIRC there were some early articles after the trade that mentioned Tocchet's preference to have him down the middle.

I think with a player like Lindholm, it's unlikely that they rigidly forecast him in any specific roster spot since a big part of his value would have been the ability to bring different things in different spots.

Also, I don't think you'll ever find a coach who doesn't want to get stronger down the middle regardless of who he has on his roster, so Blueger performing well as 3C at the time isn't going to mean that Tocchet won't be attracted by the possibility of bolstering that position.

Edit: Also, Lindholm is their only right shot C option, so it's unlikely that they picked him up purely as a winger.

 

[Nucker101]

watch the Allvin/Tocchet interviews after the trade, iirc they both mentioned starting Lindholm off with a line on Petey.

I think that was what management envisioned when they acquired Lindholm.

 

[arttk]

At the time of the Lindholm trade, Blueger had 6 points in his last 10 games, 17 in 20.

That's why I disagreed with @tantalum . The Canucks got Lindholm thinking he could be the top 6 winger they need with added versatility that he brings.

It’s incredibly irresponsible to project Bluegar to continue to perform at that level considering that he is a career 3rd line 4th line guy. Also depth, you can use Lindholm as a 1/2/3 C if needed but if we need Bluegar to fill the 1/2C hole we are f***ed.

 

[mossey3535]

I do wonder what his and the Canucks off season plans are but I guess alot depends on the playoffs.

The thing is that I'm worried that Dakota Joshua might be too expensive for us but we really need a guy like him and don't have anyone like him in the system either.

We 100% need Joshua more than Lindholm.

 

[RobertKron]

It’s incredibly irresponsible to project Bluegar to continue to perform at that level considering that he is a career 3rd line 4th line guy. Also depth, you can use Lindholm as a 1/2/3 C if needed but if we need Bluegar to fill the 1/2C hole we are f***ed.

Of course. But also, as I said, even if they liked Blueger as 3C you're never going to meet a coach who doesn't badly want to improve at C. You're not going to bring in a solid right shot centreman who has a very good defensive game and be like "oh yeah this is specifically a winger."

 

[arttk]

Of course. But also, as I said, even if they liked Blueger as 3C you're never going to meet a coach who doesn't badly want to improve at C. You're not going to bring in a solid right shot centreman who has a very good defensive game and be like "oh yeah this is specifically a winger."

I just don’t think relying on Bluegar considering how we played this year is a sensible thing. It all starts with that.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Concentrating on just having a Top 6 is an antiquated concept.

If you want to construct a team that can compete for the next 5 years then having a player like Lindholm at 3C is an absolute requirement.

When Henrik Sedin retired he was asked what his mindset was for such a long and illustrious career and he basically said, "Just to win my matchups every night".

If the opposition has only a top 6 then your team should prevail most nights.