Speculation: EJ Hradek: Colorado starting to get more serious offers for Duchene.

[JoemAvs]

If they are going to contend, yes they do need F help. But they also have a number of "Maybe" ready F prospects if they are in content in this being a bridge year. Everything Sweeney has said and done suggests that he is comfortable with that. Factor in that they need to resign Pastrnak, and I don't see them looking to add a high priced F.

If they deal Carlo their D becomes Krug, Chara, McAvoy, KMiller, McQuaid and Postma. That D isn't good enough to contend, so it kinda defeats the point of trading a young cost controlled D (++) for a F.

Pretty sure that the Avs would be in a position to take back Beleskey or McQuaid if Sweeney paid them for it in the trade.

I honestly never thought of Boston as an option before these rumors popped up yesterday.

But realistically the time for the Bruins is now. Sweeney probably can't afford to wait for all his prospects to develop if he wants to keep his job.

If he wants a piece like Duchene or Landeskog right now, it will cost him Carlo++ and he will have to ultimately decide if it is worth it to him or not.

McAvoy is probably a lock for next seasons roster and maybe he believes rolling 2 20 year olds on the right side is not a good idea anyways given that he really wants to win and rather uses one in a trade and relies on Miller or someone else he can get via trade to shore up his defensive corps.

I mean Sakic trading Duchene for a package with Carlo as the centerpiece does not make much sense for the Avs anyways right now given that we just drafted Makar and Timmins and still have EJ and Barrie on the right side with a giant hole on the left.

I would assume any such trade would lead to the Avs shipping out one of EJ/Barrie as well.


So odds are that both guys have some sort of "backup plan" if those rumors come to fruition which is unlikely but not impossible.

All we can do is sit back and wait.

Also did not Kypreos bring up Duchene to Boston yesterday? There is a whole thread about that on your board. So there is certainly some smoke there and it is not coming from the Avs side...

 

[boredmale]

We will see about that. Realistically Sakic still has atleast a month or so until Duchenes value might decrease (if at all).

I think Duchene's value goes down as more teams fill out their rosters. It's a basic case the longer this goes Colorado either has to take a bad contract back or eat salary. Smart move might be just waiting till trade deadline at this point

 

[JoemAvs]

I think Duchene's value goes down as more teams fill out their rosters. It's a basic case the longer this goes Colorado either has to take a bad contract back or eat salary. Smart move might be just waiting till trade deadline at this point

Highly disagree with that.

There are many teams left with a pretty big hole at center in their top6. Your team the Islanders being one of them.

And there are basically 0 options out there at this point (given that I think Bergevin hangs onto Galy) to fill that aside from Duchene.

It is either going for a meh solution internally or go get Duchene.

I also don't think that taking back a bigger contract or eating some salary is that much of a problem if the Avs get compensated for doing it..

Realistically the Avs should probably pull the trigger sometimes in the next 2-3 weeks or atleast before camp starts and coaches fall in love with their "internal options"...

 

[Boxscore]

TO TOR
- Duchene

TO COL
- Gardiner*
- Kapanen

*Leafs sign Markov for 2 years to replace Gardiner in the top 4.

Or... Blockbuster...

TO COL
- Gardiner*
- Kadri
- Johnsson
- 1st
- 2nd

TO TOR
- Duchene
- Barrie

Leafs go with core of...

Matthews
Duchene
Nylander
Marner
JVR
Kapanen
Rielly
Barrie
Markov
Zaitsev
Andersen

Then round out a 4th line and 3rd D pairing.

 

[nmbr_24]

If they are going to contend, yes they do need F help. But they also have a number of "Maybe" ready F prospects if they are content in this being a bridge year. Everything Sweeney has said and done suggests that he is comfortable with that. Factor in that they need to resign Pastrnak, and I don't see them looking to add a high priced F.

If they deal Carlo their D becomes Krug, Chara, McAvoy, KMiller, McQuaid and Postma. That D isn't good enough to contend, so it kinda defeats the point of trading a young cost controlled D (++) for a F.

I bet they are asking for Carlo but I am hoping that the Bruins don't do that. If the Bruins can get Duchene for one of their near NHL D prospects, a 1st, and something else then it would make sense but that doesn't seem to be what the Avs want so I hope they just stuck with what they have until a deal that doesn't take away from what they need comes along.

To put it all in one sentence, the Bruins need Carlo and Duchene to contend.

 

[boredmale]

Highly disagree with that.

There are many teams left with a pretty big hole at center in their top6. Your team the Islanders being one of them.

And there are basically 0 options out there at this point (given that I think Bergevin hangs onto Galy) to fill that aside from Duchene.

It is either going for a meh solution internally or go get Duchene.

I also don't think that taking back a bigger contract or eating some salary is that much of a problem if the Avs get compensated for doing it..

Realistically the Avs should probably pull the trigger sometimes in the next 2-3 weeks or atleast before camp starts and coaches fall in love with their "internal options"...

Let's hypothetically say one of Nashville, Columbus or Islanders sign Kovalchuk today, all of a sudden that is 1 less team that has space for Duchene

 

[JoemAvs]

Let's hypothetically say one of Nashville, Columbus or Islanders sign Kovalchuk today, all of a sudden that is 1 less team that has space for Duchene

Only team rumored to be in for him is CBJ and it looks like they only view him as plan B.

He still does not adress any holes at C and takes another option for the other teams of the table.

In that light the new Boston rumors are encouraging. No matter what happens, it seems like there will be atleast 2 serious suitors for Duchene in the next couple of weeks and honestly that is more than enough to create the kind of leverage you need to maximize any kind of return.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Let's hypothetically say one of Nashville, Columbus or Islanders sign Kovalchuk today, all of a sudden that is 1 less team that has space for Duchene

If whoever gets kovalchuk can find a way to swing Duchene as well, they'll be holy balls scary and an instant contender.

 

[nmbr_24]

If whoever gets kovalchuk can find a way to swing Duchene as well, they'll be holy balls scary and an instant contender.

If that were true then maybe the Avs should get Kovalchuk because they will be an instant contender.

 

[Viqsi]

I am not sure how Murray or Carlsson could be considered a centerpiece without much in addition.

That's nice. I don't understand how Duchene could be considered anything like a legit #1C at this point in his career, but sometimes we just have to go along with the assessments of folks who closely know the players in question to have any useful discussion whatsoever.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

If that were true then maybe the Avs should get Kovalchuk because they will be an instant contender.

Ha. I was more referring to a team like the Blue Jackets who have defense already.

 

[Goulet17]

That's nice. I don't understand how Duchene could be considered anything like a legit #1C at this point in his career, but sometimes we just have to go along with the assessments of folks who closely know the players in question to have any useful discussion whatsoever.

It's not intended as some personal slight, but whatever questions surrounding Duchene at this point are only increased with respect to Murray. Murray also is two, three years max, from reaching UFA status, so even contract term is close to a wash.

Carlsson was an extremely late first round draft pick, who looked solid in a limited audition late last season, but otherwise is simply a prospect with questions at this point.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

That's nice. I don't understand how Duchene could be considered anything like a legit #1C at this point in his career, but sometimes we just have to go along with the assessments of folks who closely know the players in question to have any useful discussion whatsoever.

It's all about who you put around him. Imagine Oshie and Ovechkin. Duchene could easily 1Cthat if backstrom wasn't there.

 

[Viqsi]

It's not intended as some personal slight, but whatever questions surrounding Duchene at this point are only increased with respect to Murray. Murray also is two, three years max, from reaching UFA status, so even contract term is close to a wash.

Carlsson was an extremely late first round draft pick, who looked solid in a limited audition late last season, but otherwise is simply a prospect with questions at this point.

Not saying that straight up would be Perfectly Fine for either; just that combining more than one of them is too much.

 

[Monk]

It's not intended as some personal slight, but whatever questions surrounding Duchene at this point are only increased with respect to Murray. Murray also is two, three years max, from reaching UFA status, so even contract term is close to a wash.

Carlsson was an extremely late first round draft pick, who looked solid in a limited audition late last season, but otherwise is simply a prospect with questions at this point.

That's why all the offers are murray+ but that plus shouldn't be something big.

 

[Goulet17]

That's why all the offers are murray+ but that plus shouldn't be something big.

The plus would have to be significant, because as I mentioned, for all of Duchene's faults, Murray is far less proven and injury prone, and not much young than Duchene at this point.

A trade with Murray as the center piece is an easy trade for Columbus to make IMO.

 

[CB Joe]

That's nice. I don't understand how Duchene could be considered anything like a legit #1C at this point in his career, but sometimes we just have to go along with the assessments of folks who closely know the players in question to have any useful discussion whatsoever.

Probably because despite his struggles he's still a top 30 scoring forward in the league over the past 5 years. Anyone who has watched a few Avs games know that the team is completely dysfunctional (poor coaching and poor construction) and that moving Duchene to a better situation will vastly improve his production. He has game breaking talent. Murray and Carlsson do not.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

That's why all the offers are murray+ but that plus shouldn't be something big.

The plus would have to be significant, because as I mentioned, for all of Duchene's faults, Murray is far less proven and injury prone, and not much young than Duchene at this point.

A trade with Murray as the center piece is an easy trade for Columbus to make IMO.

Murray is great on paper because of 3oa. Everything else points to Jones carrying his jock for him. Murray needs to be the plus.

 

[Viqsi]

A trade with Murray as the center piece is an easy trade for Columbus to make IMO.

Jones for Johansen was similarly "easy" for Nashville. Our record last year without Murray in the lineup was... rather ugly.

* * *​

Probably because despite his struggles he's still a top 30 scoring forward in the league over the past 5 years. Anyone who has watched a few Avs games know that the team is completely dysfunctional (poor coaching and poor construction) and that moving Duchene to a better situation will vastly improve his production. He has game breaking talent. Murray and Carlsson do not.

Yeah, we used to say the same thing about Nash as well.

Only one centerpiece. Not two.

* * *​

Murray is great on paper because of 3oa. Everything else points to Jones carrying his jock for him. Murray needs to be the plus.

Setting aside the facts that his best years were before Jones ever got here, and that he was drafted 2nd overall (not 3rd), any deal in which Murray is the plus rather than the primary return involves us targeting a different Avs center. We are as happy to keep Murray and go with what we have as y'all are to keep Duchene and go with what you have.

 

[kingdoughty]

You guys need to go watch some Matt Duchene highlights. He's one of the fastest skaters, plays center, is only 26, has a gold medal with Canada (and was an important player on that team), has scored 30 goals... what are you guys missing? His value doesn't go down at all. A 1st round draft pick (which will become 25th-30th overall because whatever team he goes to will win) doesn't mean ****. If you aren't ready to give up some good players from your team, then just stop dreaming. Sakic is doing the right thing protecting his good players. You guys also **** all over Yzerman on the Stamkos deal; you just want to hate NHL stars who became GMs. Keep it up though... show how little you know hockey...

 

[CB Joe]

Yeah, we used to say the same thing about Nash as well.

Only one centerpiece. Not two.

That's fine. Murray and Carlsson aren't centerpieces.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Tough luck. He's under contract for 2 more season. Avs absolutely need a good return for Duchene. You can't trade a young player with that type of talent for an "ok" package.

If, by Avs fans' assessment, Duchene indeed mailed it in since half season, that's the kind of player I wouldn't want to disgruntle and maybe have him drag his feet till the rest of his contract expires.
I think that Duchene did well by Avs fans during his time with the team and if he wants to go that bad, the Avs management should try to get the best package that is realistically available, not the moon. Duchene earned that kind of respect, I'd say.

 

[Viqsi]

That's fine. Murray and Carlsson aren't centerpieces.

Yes they are. If we're buying, they're centerpieces. If you disagree, sell elsewhere. We have PLD ready to hop in if needed; we are in no hurry to buy.

* * *​

If you aren't ready to give up some good players from your team, then just stop dreaming.

If you want to keep insisting that the good players we're offering actually suck, then our dreams aren't going to change the situation.

 

[CB Joe]

If, by Avs fans' assessment, Duchene indeed mailed it in since half season, that's the kind of player I wouldn't want to disgruntle and maybe have him drag his feet till the rest of his contract expires.
I think that Duchene did well by Avs fans during his time with the team and if he wants to go that bad, the Avs management should try to get the best package that is realistically available, not the moon. Duchene earned that kind of respect, I'd say.

Trading for the sake of trading isn't how you build a franchise.

 

[CB Joe]

Yes they are. If we're buying, they're centerpieces. If you disagree, sell elsewhere.

No the centerpiece is what you will be adding to either one of them.