Value of: Eichel + Skinner

[Merrrlin]

If Buffalo goes full nuclear, what kind of value would you be willing to give up to bring in Eichel if he was attached to Skinner's contract?

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[Llamamoto]

I don't think there are many teams able to take on ~20 million in cap right now.

 

[Gavy]

Youd be idiotic to lessen Eichels value by attaching the worst contract in the league to him

 

[IranCondraAffair]

If you trade Eichel there no reason to include Skinner.

1. You'd lower your return on Eichel by a big margin. Not just because you're attaching a really bad contract but because you'd lower the bidders to like...3 teams. Much better off doing two deals if, for some reason, you moved both. Get a big return on Ecihel and then find a way to move Skinner for another troublesome contract and attaching some assets.

2. If you trade Eichel and Skinner, how are you going to be at the cap floor? Sending out both would reduce Buffalo's cap hit to like...30M and they'd only have 2 signed forwards.It would be a mess and you'd be signing a whole team from scratch.

No reason to do it this way. The only teams who could conceivably do it would be Ottawa, Detroit, or NJD,

 

[izzy]

this is not a combo to trade together

eichel shouldnt be used to bring skinners value out of the red, IF they trade him

realistically, buffalo shouldn’t even entertain the idea of moving eichel or dahlin as they won’t be able to replace pieces like them.

 

[93LEAFS]

Teams aren't looking at adding that level of salary without sending significant cap back. Especially with the uncertainty right now. So, you are destroying the value of one of your best assets in Eichel. Skinner also has a full NMC, and he was very difficult about waiving it in Carolina.

I'd add, the last thing Buffalo does right now is move Eichel or Dahlin (who will get a big pay-day in a year) because that will actually lead to a full-on fan revolt. They aren't going to trade the guy who probably does more for ticket sales than any other asset they have.

On-ice and economically, I can't see a single reason for trading Eichel, unless you somehow get a cheaper option who can also sell tickets (say MacKinnon, and that isn't happening).

 

[LeProspector]

This sounds like when Ottawa was trying to trade Ryan with Karlsson, either way; it won’t end well.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I guess I'll play. Under the assumption that "full nuclear" means that they're looking mostly for futures...

First, have to match salaries:

Dumba 3 x $6M remaining
Rask 2 x $4M remaining
Dubnyk 1 x $4.333M remaining
Greenway RFA (probably looking at $2-$3M on a bridge)
Donato 1 x $1.9M remaining

Totals ~$18.75M

Taking $19M in Eichel + Skinner, pretty spot on.

Rask and Dubnyk are nothing, just have to be in there for the cap, contracts expire relatively quickly. Dumba, Greenway and Donato have varying degrees of value for Buffalo to either hold and play, or flip for picks/prospects.

Now have to add more value. Might seem dumb, but Kaprizov isn't on the table. The whole point of this would be to ice a Kaprizov/Eichel/Fiala top line. I really, really wouldn't want to give up Boldy either, but he isn't quite on the same level of Kaprizov.

I would say that maybe have Buffalo pick 3 of Min 2020 1st/Min 2021 1st (top 5 protected or something)/Pit 2020 or 2021 1st/Beckman/Khovanov.

Or Boldy + Pit 2020 or 2021 1st + 1 of Beckman/Khovanov

I wouldn't doubt that this would probably get out bid by someone else, or that Buffalo isn't interested in a deal without at least one A+ piece coming back, but's probably the best Minnesota could/should do.

 

[Roof Daddy]

Not a fan of either team, but how about to New Jersey for Hughes, Hischier and Schneider (dump, only 2 more years @ 6mil)?

Gives the Sabres an official reset and extra 4-5 mil to play with in cap space. New Jersey trades in 2 stars in the making for a legitimate super star.

 

[GTA]

Montreal offers Suzuki, Danault, Romanov, 8th overall for Eichel.

 

[TGWL]

Not a fan of either team, but how about to New Jersey for Hughes, Hischier and Schneider (dump, only 2 more years @ 6mil)?

Gives the Sabres an official reset and extra 4-5 mil to play with in cap space. New Jersey trades in 2 stars in the making for a legitimate super star.

I think trading away your 2 1st overall picks is a bad organizational move. Regardless of value, that sends a terrible message.

 

[CatchyTune]

Why would you significantly lessen the value of your franchise piece with a cap dump?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I guess I'll play. Under the assumption that "full nuclear" means that they're looking mostly for futures...

First, have to match salaries:

Dumba 3 x $6M remaining
Rask 2 x $4M remaining
Dubnyk 1 x $4.333M remaining
Greenway RFA (probably looking at $2-$3M on a bridge)
Donato 1 x $1.9M remaining

Totals ~$18.75M

Taking $19M in Eichel + Skinner, pretty spot on.

Rask and Dubnyk are nothing, just have to be in there for the cap, contracts expire relatively quickly. Dumba, Greenway and Donato have varying degrees of value for Buffalo to either hold and play, or flip for picks/prospects.

Now have to add more value. Might seem dumb, but Kaprizov isn't on the table. The whole point of this would be to ice a Kaprizov/Eichel/Fiala top line. I really, really wouldn't want to give up Boldy either, but he isn't quite on the same level of Kaprizov.

I would say that maybe have Buffalo pick 3 of Min 2020 1st/Min 2021 1st (top 5 protected or something)/Pit 2020 or 2021 1st/Beckman/Khovanov.

Or Boldy + Pit 2020 or 2021 1st + 1 of Beckman/Khovanov

I wouldn't doubt that this would probably get out bid by someone else, or that Buffalo isn't interested in a deal without at least one A+ piece coming back, but's probably the best Minnesota could/should do.

I get the need to match salaries, but that's pretty bad for the Sabres IMO. They already have too many defensemen and the best piece you are offering, is a defenseman.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Don't attach skinner to Eichel in a trade.

 

[themelkman]

This reminds me of people trying to get Hertl for taking Vlasic. Just an awful idea

 

[Fjordy]

This does not work

 

[Fatass]

If Buffalo goes full nuclear, what kind of value would you be willing to give up to bring in Eichel if he was attached to Skinner's contract?

Would a top five pick be fair? By himself Eichel is worth more, but that Skinner contract lowers Eichel’s value a lot. Or Maybe something with Arizona?

 

[Fatass]

Montreal offers Suzuki, Danault, Romanov, 8th overall for Eichel.

So no Skinner?

 

[HuGo Sham]

Montreal offers Suzuki, Danault, Romanov, 8th overall for Eichel.

no they don't

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I agree with a lot of the sentiment in this thread. One additional question is: how much salary are the Sabres willing to take back and/or willing to retain?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Would a top five pick be fair? By himself Eichel is worth more, but that Skinner contract lowers Eichel’s value a lot. Or Maybe something with Arizona?

I'm not sure I agree with "a lot". Of course, it depends on the team and if there is any retention. Skinner has had up years and down years through-out his 10 year career, but still averages almost 30G / 82G in his entire career and has been relatively healthy after his 3rd season. He just turned 28. He's one of the top ES goal scorers of his time and I suspect he will continue to be.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's overpaid by about $2M / year, but don't think that $2M is going to lower Eichel's value a lot. I get that he's had an off season this year, but value isn't determined by 1 season alone. Just my $0.02.

Even if one agrees Skinner lowers Eichel's value a lot, then it makes even less sense for Buffalo to trade Eichel as it won't help them long term taking a lesser return for their star player.

 

[Merrrlin]

I'm not sure I agree with "a lot". Of course, it depends on the team and if there is any retention. Skinner has had up years and down years through-out his 10 year career, but still averages almost 30G / 82G in his entire career and has been relatively healthy after his 3rd season. He just turned 28. He's one of the top ES goal scorers of his time and I suspect he will continue to be.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's overpaid by about $2M / year, but don't think that $2M is going to lower Eichel's value a lot. I get that he's had an off season this year, but value isn't determined by 1 season alone. Just my $0.02.

Even if one agrees Skinner lowers Eichel's value a lot, then it makes even less sense for Buffalo to trade Eichel as it won't help them long term taking a lesser return for their star player.

Agree with you. Obviously Buffalo would need to take salary back, but I think it would be useful players to make the cap work.

I think Skinner only lowers Eichel's value by a little. I don't see Skinner as a write off ala Lucic - Jeff can still play.

 

[Fatass]

I'm not sure I agree with "a lot". Of course, it depends on the team and if there is any retention. Skinner has had up years and down years through-out his 10 year career, but still averages almost 30G / 82G in his entire career and has been relatively healthy after his 3rd season. He just turned 28. He's one of the top ES goal scorers of his time and I suspect he will continue to be.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's overpaid by about $2M / year, but don't think that $2M is going to lower Eichel's value a lot. I get that he's had an off season this year, but value isn't determined by 1 season alone. Just my $0.02.

Even if one agrees Skinner lowers Eichel's value a lot, then it makes even less sense for Buffalo to trade Eichel as it won't help them long term taking a lesser return for their star player.

I agree. The Sabres could retain enough on Skinner to make him not a negative to Eichel’s value. But are the Pegulas wanting to rebuild, again? Or do they want to bring in veterans to help get them into the playoffs? I’d say the latter. They are more likely to trade away picks and prospects (young players not named Eichel and Dahlin) to get the veterans.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I agree. The Sabres could retain enough on Skinner to make him not a negative to Eichel’s value. But are the Pegulas wanting to rebuild, again? Or do they want to bring in veterans to help get them into the playoffs? I’d say the latter. They are more likely to trade away picks and prospects (young players not named Eichel and Dahlin) to get the veterans.

I'm not a Sabres fan so don't know what they are thinking, but I'd guess you are right. I think they'd want to compete sooner, rather than later.

Even if they did want to "rebuild" again, I'd think Eichel and Dahlin are the guys they'd keep to rebuild around.

Either way, if the go "nuclear" like the OP suggested, I don't think Eichel would be part of it.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Unless he doesn't give you a choice you don't trade Eichel, because that's basically quitting until about 2030, you may as well throw away the next 10 years