Speculation: Edmundson and Fabbri - Next Contract Predictions

[BleedBlue14]

How does it work if a team walks away from an RFA? Like, just as an example (not at all suggesting we do this, it would be dumb), but say we decided not to qualify Fabbri, and allow some other team to sign him. Maybe Sundqvist is a better example. When can other teams sign them? July 1?

I may be wrong, but assuming we qualify them after the UFA signing opens up other teams can make offers or offer sheet RFAs who have not signed. That being said, we have the capability to match any offer thrown at them or we will receive compensation in the form of the other teams draft picks assuming the offer to said player is above a certain amount

 

[EastonBlues22]

How does it work if a team walks away from an RFA? Like, just as an example (not at all suggesting we do this, it would be dumb), but say we decided not to qualify Fabbri, and allow some other team to sign him. Maybe Sundqvist is a better example. When can other teams sign them? July 1?

Qualifying offers are due the day after the NHL draft concludes, IIRC.

If a RFA isn't qualified, then they join the rest of the UFA ranks with being able to sign on July 1st.

 

[TheDizee]

Fabbri 1 yr for whatever the minimum is.

 

[Majorityof1]

How does it work if a team walks away from an RFA? Like, just as an example (not at all suggesting we do this, it would be dumb), but say we decided not to qualify Fabbri, and allow some other team to sign him. Maybe Sundqvist is a better example. When can other teams sign them? July 1?

If a team does not extend a qualifying offer by the deadline, they become UFA immediately, able to be signed by any team. So if we don't qualify Sundqvist on the 25th, then is a UFA June 26th before regular UFA opens. If they are qualified, they have until December 1st for them to sign the QO, an offer sheet or a new deal with their team. After December 1, they must sit out the season and, I believe, they become a UFA the next July 1. I could be wrong about that last part though.

 

[Majorityof1]

Qualifying offers are due the day after the NHL draft concludes, IIRC.

If a RFA isn't qualified, then they join the rest of the UFA ranks with being able to sign on July 1st.

They don't have to wait until July 1 if I read the CBA right. From 10.2(a)(ii) [Bold and underline added for emphasis]:

"In the event a Prior Club fails to make a Qualifying Offer as set forth in this Section 10.2 and fails to elect salary arbitration pursuant to Section 12.3(a), the Player shall immediately become an Unrestricted Free Agent and shall be completely free to negotiate and sign an SPC with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign an SPC with any such Player, without penalty or restriction or being subject to any Right of First Refusal, Draft Choice Compensation, or any other compensation or equalization obligation of any kind.

 

[EastonBlues22]

They don't have to wait until July 1 if I read the CBA right. From 10.2(a)(ii) [Bold and underline added for emphasis]:

"In the event a Prior Club fails to make a Qualifying Offer as set forth in this Section 10.2 and fails to elect salary arbitration pursuant to Section 12.3(a), the Player shall immediately become an Unrestricted Free Agent and shall be completely free to negotiate and sign an SPC with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign an SPC with any such Player, without penalty or restriction or being subject to any Right of First Refusal, Draft Choice Compensation, or any other compensation or equalization obligation of any kind.

Once they become a UFA, they fall under the rules for that category, and UFAs can't sign with another team before July 1st.

That's my understanding, anyway. I might be wrong.

 

[Majorityof1]

Once they become a UFA, they fall under the rules for that category, and UFAs can't sign with another team before July 1st.

That's my understanding, anyway. I might be wrong.

That was my thought as well until I read that provision. It says the word "immediately", in immediately become a free agent and are eligible to sign with anyone. Now the "immediately" is not in the same clause as "free to sign". However, given that seems to be the plain reading of that sentence. The UFA period opens July 1 not because teams can't sign UFAs before hand but because most players don't become UFAs until then. We are free to sign Curtis Joseph, Pierre Turgeon and Brett Hull as UFAs right now if we wanted. Their contracts have expired long ago. UFA opens on July 1 because all Standard Player Contracts (SPC) end on July 1. The players don't become UFAs until their SPC ends. But players not under contract don't have to wait, unless there is some specific rule regarding retirement like Kovalchuk or something weird like Sobotka. So once the RFA immediately becomes a UFA, they would be in the same situation as a Brett Hull or whatever.

 

[EastonBlues22]

That was my thought as well until I read that provision. It says the word "immediately", in immediately become a free agent and are eligible to sign with anyone. Now the "immediately" is not in the same clause as "free to sign". However, given that seems to be the plain reading of that sentence. The UFA period opens July 1 not because teams can't sign UFAs before hand but because most players don't become UFAs until then. We are free to sign Curtis Joseph, Pierre Turgeon and Brett Hull as UFAs right now if we wanted. Their contracts have expired long ago. UFA opens on July 1 because all Standard Player Contracts (SPC) end on July 1. The players don't become UFAs until their SPC ends. But players not under contract don't have to wait, unless there is some specific rule regarding retirement like Kovalchuk or something weird like Sobotka. So once the RFA immediately becomes a UFA, they would be in the same situation as a Brett Hull or whatever.

Is there an example of someone who wasn't qualified signing with another team before July 1st that you know of? That would be an easy way to prove the case.

I'd do some google sleuthing myself, but I'm tending to admin concerns at the moment and it would be awhile before I have a chance.

 

[Majorityof1]

I was about to look. It wouldn't necessarily be dispositive because those players are generally not highly sought after. Its rare enough players aren't qualified are signed. So having one sign within a few days could be rarer still.

 

[Majorityof1]

Is there an example of someone who wasn't qualified signing with another team before July 1st that you know of? That would be an easy way to prove the case.

I'd do some google sleuthing myself, but I'm tending to admin concerns at the moment and it would be awhile before I have a chance.

Ok, looked into it. I looked at a couple dozen or so UFAs who were not qualified last off-season but signed before I got bored. None were signed before July 1 and enough were signed on July 1 to make me think you are right. The way it is written is very unclear, but that's what happens with a collectively-bargained 100-page agreement.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Has there been any word about Fab's current status, health-wise? Guy was a dream come true and got injured. Really pulling for him to bounce back with a vengeance.

 

[Majorityof1]

Has there been any word about Fab's current status, health-wise? Guy was a dream come true and got injured. Really pulling for him to bounce back with a vengeance.

JR Twitter: "In a follow-up to my recent mailbag, Blues general manager Doug Armstrong says Robby Fabbri is “doing well."

 

[Ranksu]

I'm so mixed up feeling how Fabbri will look coming off these injuries. I'm just afraid he comes back Rattie 2.0 type of player. Akward skating etc.

 

[Dbrownss]

I'm so mixed up feeling how Fabbri will look coming off these injuries. I'm just afraid he comes back Rattie 2.0 type of player. Akward skating etc.

He is far too skilled to be Rattie 2.0. He's either and NHL player or he's done imo

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

I'm so mixed up feeling how Fabbri will look coming off these injuries. I'm just afraid he comes back Rattie 2.0 type of player. Akward skating etc.

I think he’ll be fine. He’s very young still. It might take him until January or so to really get back to what he used to be though.

 

[Jordeau]

I think people will be surprised how motivated a young, competitive athlete can be to come back at 100%. Especially when there's potentially millions of dollars on the line. By all accounts he's been an extremely hard worker his entire life. I don't see him slacking off in his rehab, and given how advanced modern medicine is, that's good enough for me. I don't want to make my expectations too high, but I'm fairly confident that he'll come back and be right where he left off in terms of development after a couple weeks of shaking off the rust. Which is why I'm so hesitant to trade him compared to a lot of people on this board. He was quickly becoming one of my favorites players before his injuries, and I think the same can be said about a lot of posters here.

 

[Ranksu]

I think people will be surprised how motivated a young, competitive athlete can be to come back at 100%. Especially when there's potentially millions of dollars on the line. By all accounts he's been an extremely hard worker his entire life. I don't see him slacking off in his rehab, and given how advanced modern medicine is, that's good enough for me. I don't want to make my expectations too high, but I'm fairly confident that he'll come back and be right where he left off in terms of development after a couple weeks of shaking off the rust. Which is why I'm so hesitant to trade him compared to a lot of people on this board. He was quickly becoming one of my favorites players before his injuries, and I think the same can be said about a lot of posters here.

Didn't Fabbri show up in Bad shape to camp after his NHL rookie season? And he got slow start to season and wasn't that The season when he get injured?

 

[BlueDream]

From what I’ve seen, it looks like Fabbri might be attending the Biosteel camp this summer in Toronto, which is run by Matt Nichol.

If true, I think that’s good news. They post a lot of stuff on Instagram and they do a ton of different workouts to get these guys in shape. They also scrimmage a lot so Fabbri will actually get some hockey under his belt as well. Some big name players also attend this - Seguin does every year, and I also believe Hall, Simmonds and McDavid have as well.

 

[Dbrownss]

Didn't Fabbri show up in Bad shape to camp after his NHL rookie season? And he got slow start to season and wasn't that The season when he get injured?

He didnt take his offseason too serious. It didnt have anything to do with his injury

 

[Ranksu]

He didnt take his offseason too serious. It didnt have anything to do with his injury

Why it isn't reflect if you come to NHL season in bad condition. I don't know what it affects in ice hockey rink if you aren't fully ready for NHL, but generally if you go competition with no full condition your injuryrisk is higher then normal. Its basic knowledge.

 

[Dbrownss]

Why it isn't reflect if you come to NHL season in bad condition. I don't know what it affects in ice hockey rink if you aren't fully ready for NHL, but generally if you go competition with no full condition your injuryrisk is higher then normal. Its basic knowledge.

I would agree if it was a muscle injury but given how he was injured, I don't think any training would have helped. Also he was injured in the 2nd half of the season, not the first.

 

[Ranksu]

I would agree if it was a muscle injury but given how he was injured, I don't think any training would have helped. Also he was injured in the 2nd half of the season, not the first.

I don't remember at all how Fabbri get first place injured, but I doubt it was 100% of bad luck or bad position. I bet there is at least some of reason not being full condition when season started and playing half of season mid condition and maybe be bit tired and getting easier injured. Maybe I'm just totally wrong, I'm not expert at all, but general knowledge when you're professional athlete, injury risk is always higher when you aren't 100% fit or you have been sloppy at post-training stretching etc.

 

[Dbrownss]

I don't remember at all how Fabbri get first place injured, but I doubt it was 100% of bad luck or bad position. I bet there is at least some of reason not being full condition when season started and playing half of season mid condition and maybe be bit tired and getting easier injured. Maybe I'm just totally wrong, I'm not expert at all, but general knowledge when you're professional athlete, injury risk is always higher when you aren't 100% fit or you have been sloppy at post-training stretching etc.

He was ran into the boards against Pittsburgh. His skate dug into the ice as his knee either hyperextended or twisted. I cant remember which. You are correct that not being in condition can contribute to being injury prone, but given the severity of the hit, it would have happened either way. Muscle strength does keep joints from getting damaged easily, I just dont see that being the case involving Fabbri and his knee injury.

 

[Ranksu]

He was ran into the boards against Pittsburgh. His skate dug into the ice as his knee either hyperextended or twisted. I cant remember which. You are correct that not being in condition can contribute to being injury prone, but given the severity of the hit, it would have happened either way. Muscle strength does keep joints from getting damaged easily, I just dont see that being the case involving Fabbri and his knee injury.

Yeah, well we can't be sure of it without professional opinion about it.

 

[The Note in MI]

Yeah, well we can't be sure of it without professional opinion about it.

An expert opinion won’t provide assurance either. Yes deconditioning leads to increase opportunity for injury. In his case it’s likely that anyone in that position suffers an ACL injury. Either way no expert can say yes that’s because he was a bum or no.