Proposal: EDM - WSH

[ChaoticOrange]

To be fair I think the value is closer here than a lot of the Price threads haha. I guess I put more value in 2 years of Holtby's contract left to 1 year for Talbot as well. The value may not be perfect, but I think this is a good basis if Chia thinks a decent move needs to be made to push EDM back into the playoffs and obviously the Caps need to do some massive retooling if they flame out again. Sometimes a team just needs to be shaken up a bit to wake em up again.

I think we do need a shakeup, but I don’t think it’ll come in the form of jettisoning 10th overall to upgrade (?) our goaltending.

In your scenario Edmonton is the one gambling, and I am not a gambler. You bank on Puljujarvi replacing what Burakovsky brings, and if Talbot sucks, you have Grubauer. Plus you have a shiny tenth overall pick.

Edmonton is left hoping and praying Holtby finds his form, that Burakovsky can take a step forward (actually if I’m being honest the RNH-McDavid-Rattie line produced extremely well and probably wouldn’t be messed with out of the gate - Burakovsky would likely be slotted in with Draisaitl) and that they didn’t do something stupid by ignoring all the defencemen potentially available at 10 (or Wahlstrom).

Which is what it boils down to for me. I think Edmonton is better off both short and long term with Talbot, Puljujarvi, and Wahlstrom/Bouchard/Smith/Hughes/whoever vs Holtby/Burakovsky/Florida 2nd/throw-in prospects.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

They definitely have as much value as Mcphee and other forward prospects (besides Yamamoto) you listed.

I’ll give you McPhee, but at this point in their careers Tyler Benson and Cooper Marody are much better prospects.

Maksimov might be one of the top five or ten 2017 draft picks in terms of improving their stock. He had a seriously great year and I wouldn’t move him 1 for 1 for any of the guys you listed.

Safin is harder to gauge, but he’s 6’5 and 200 pounds and can skate like the wind.

Barber is 24 and is looking like he’s not going to be an NHLer. Ditto for Travis Boyd, he’s got Anton Lander all over him. I’ve never heard of the Swedish kid in my life but his numbers are pretty pedestrian, and as for Gerisch I don’t know a ton about him but a fifth rounder from four years ago with OK numbers isn’t really going to move the needle. He looks like another... I can’t for the life of me remember his name. The kid we got from Jersey in the Maroon deal that we were all underwhelmed by.

 

[VTDAlane]

I’ll give you McPhee, but at this point in their careers Tyler Benson and Cooper Marody are much better prospects.

Maksimov might be one of the top five or ten 2017 draft picks in terms of improving their stock. He had a seriously great year and I wouldn’t move him 1 for 1 for any of the guys you listed.

Safin is harder to gauge, but he’s 6’5 and 200 pounds and can skate like the wind.

Pretty much depends on what you're looking for. I think Boyd will end up being a good 3c someday soon (we have Eller signed for a while though). Gersich and Fjallby should be 3rd or 4th liners with tons of energy and speed with a bit of scoring touch. Not bonafide prospects for sure, but I could see an organization really having their eye on one of them.

 

[VTDAlane]

I think we do need a shakeup, but I don’t think it’ll come in the form of jettisoning 10th overall to upgrade (?) our goaltending.

In your scenario Edmonton is the one gambling, and I am not a gambler. You bank on Puljujarvi replacing what Burakovsky brings, and if Talbot sucks, you have Grubauer. Plus you have a shiny tenth overall pick.

Edmonton is left hoping and praying Holtby finds his form, that Burakovsky can take a step forward (actually if I’m being honest the RNH-McDavid-Rattie line produced extremely well and probably wouldn’t be messed with out of the gate - Burakovsky would likely be slotted in with Draisaitl) and that they didn’t do something stupid by ignoring all the defencemen potentially available at 10 (or Wahlstrom).

Which is what it boils down to for me. I think Edmonton is better off both short and long term with Talbot, Puljujarvi, and Wahlstrom/Bouchard/Smith/Hughes/whoever vs Holtby/Burakovsky/Florida 2nd/throw-in prospects.

You're right. It's hard to gauge goalies and their value. This trade will never happen anyways, so I hope Talbot regains his form just like Holtby does haha.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Pretty much depends on what you're looking for. I think Boyd will end up being a good 3c someday soon (we have Eller signed for a while though). Gersich and Fjallby should be 3rd or 4th liners with tons of energy and speed with a bit of scoring touch. Not bonafide prospects for sure, but I could see an organization really having their eye on one of them.

Boyd is 24 now and I’m willing to bet passes through waivers quite comfortably.

Anyway. Any of those guys you listed are worth - what - a 5th rounder at best? Not exactly tipping the scales in terms of what’s involved in the rest of the deal. Included, not included, B prospect defenceman or B prospect forward, doesn’t make much difference to me. I wouldn’t do it and I don’t see why the Oilers would either. The gamble is too big and Holtby is no longer a sure thing - if he can be bad enough to put up a .907 on YOUR defence, he can damn sure be that bad here with Kris Russell starfishing in the slot and Andrej Sekera forgetting how to hockey.

THAT’S the kind of deal Edmonton needs. Pick + part + defenceman for better defenceman.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You're right. It's hard to gauge goalies and their value. This trade will never happen anyways, so I hope Talbot regains his form just like Holtby does haha.

Trust me, we do too. If he didn’t look like he was finding his form again over the last 20 ish games I’d be panicked haha.

Good chat. Most new posters have difficulty with the ‘disagreeing without arguing line’ - I can definitely have issues there too. Welcome.

 

[philip]

Just assuming that if the Caps do not win the cup (or maybe even don't make it past the Penguins) that they'd be interested in moving on from some core players.

To WSH:
Jesse Puljujärvi
EDM 2018 1st (10th overall)
Cam Talbot

To EDM:
Andre Burakovsky
Braden Holtby
FLA 2018 2nd (~45th overall)
One caps D prospect not named Johansen - (Siegenthaler, Hobbs, Williams)

I think the value can be shifted a little bit either way, but it in general would make sense for both squads. Burakovsky and McDavid have some chemistry from their one season together in Erie. Holtby makes the EDM squad a lot better over the next two years and WSH can run with Gruby and Talbot next year while Samsonov gets a year of play in the AHL.

I'd package it more like

WSH:
Poolparty
A D, Larsson, Klefbom, Benning?

EDM:
Holtby/Grub
Bura

Caps get rid of an extra goalie, with Samsonov coming we don't need 3, add some depth in O and D
Edmonton shift a piece that hasn't worked out (Larsson), add goals and a good goalie.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

What? How is everyone saying that Puljujarvi and Burakovsky are a wash? Pulju was just picked 4th overall and is 19 years old.

He has way more value than Burakovsky.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

What? How is everyone saying that Puljujarvi and Burakovsky are a wash? Pulju was just picked 4th overall and is 19 years old.

He has way more value than Burakovsky.

And so far Burakovsky has much better results - and I’m saying this as a guy that loves Puljujarvi.

As a 20 year old Burakovsky put up 22 points in 50 ish games - next year will tell us a lot about JP.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

And so far Burakovsky has much better results - and I’m saying this as a guy that loves Puljujarvi.

As a 20 year old Burakovsky put up 22 points in 50 ish games - next year will tell us a lot about JP.

Puljujarvi put up a near 20 goal pace as a 19-year old, which isn't bad at all. And then when you consider his usage, it becomes much more impressive. He had next to no powerplay time, and played on the 3rd and 4th lines most of the time, usually on a line with Lucic and Strome.

Burakovsky was lucky enough to play with the likes of Backstrom, Oshie, Kuzntesov, and of course, #8.

 

[hockeykicker]

Puljujarvi put up a near 20 goal pace as a 19-year old, which isn't bad at all. And then when you consider his usage, it becomes much more impressive. He had next to no powerplay time, and played on the 3rd and 4th lines most of the time, usually on a line with Lucic and Strome.

Burakovsky was lucky enough to play with the likes of Backstrom, Oshie, Kuzntesov, and of course, #8.

except he didnt play with those guys
backstrom was with ovechkin and oshie
kuznetsov was with williams and johansson

so not sure where you get that info

 

[StephenPeat]

Puljujarvi put up a near 20 goal pace as a 19-year old, which isn't bad at all. And then when you consider his usage, it becomes much more impressive. He had next to no powerplay time, and played on the 3rd and 4th lines most of the time, usually on a line with Lucic and Strome.

Burakovsky was lucky enough to play with the likes of Backstrom, Oshie, Kuzntesov, and of course, #8.

Not commenting on the proposal but this is a new height of disingenuous.

Barely, Barely, Never, and Never. Burakovsky spent more than 50% of his time on the 3/4th line with no PP time and still outscored Puljujaarvi in significantly fewer games with similar usage.

 

[philip]

The thing is with Bura, there's a very good player in there. He has a hell of a shot and finds space well. He hasn't really had a proper sustained run of things with WSH, due to injury or being scratched. He'll then come back and take a dozen games to find his feet again, I don't think Trotz has managed him very well in all honesty, Barry isn't very good at nurturing young talent. I think with a protracted run in a side he's capable of 25 goals 50+ points a year, honestly. It's his hockey sense that lets him down sometimes, but he's a good offensive player.

He'll be another who Caps let go for not much return who then turns out to produce really well somewhere, it's nailed on.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

except he didnt play with those guys
backstrom was with ovechkin and oshie
kuznetsov was with williams and johansson

so not sure where you get that info

Not commenting on the proposal but this is a new height of disingenuous.

Barely, Barely, Never, and Never. Burakovsky spent more than 50% of his time on the 3/4th line with no PP time and still outscored Puljujaarvi in significantly fewer games with similar usage.

Sorry, I thought their lines were:

Ovechkin - Kuznetsov - Wilson
Burakovsky - Backstrom - Oshie

for the majority of the season.

 

[StephenPeat]

Sorry, I thought their lines were:

Ovechkin - Kuznetsov - Wilson
Burakovsky - Backstrom - Oshie

for the majority of the season.

No, for ~1/3 of his season Burakovsky was on a line with Backstrom and Oshie. He played a nearly equivalent portion of his season on a line with Brett Connolly and Lars Eller (hence 3/4 line).

 

[voxel]

Edmonton shift a piece that hasn't worked out (Larsson), add goals and a good goalie.

That piece that hasn't worked out is Russell. Take Russell that deal would be more tolerable. If you say Larsson/Klefbom haven't worked out for the Oilers you basically haven't watched them.

Anyhow, Oilers are also full of bottom 6 types.. we have tons of grit, size (Khaira, Kassian, Lucic, Sleppy, Draisaitl, etc). We don't need more grinder types.

 

[Homesick]

Doesn't make any sense for capitals since you can argue that burakovsky is better then puljarjvi, holtby is better then talbot which just leaves the oilers first and either a defender who scored 31 goals in whl (hobbs) the likely orpik replacement in sigenthaler or the total wildcard in williams

Does the oilers first rounder make up for the two other differences as well as the caps giving up a young defender?

You do realize that Puljujarvi is only 19 years old right?

 

[Drake1588]

I doubt the Capitals have any interest in adding a goaltender. They have three: Holtby, Grubauer, and Samsonov. Frankly, I like all three of them more than I do Talbot.

Holtby has clearly shown he has the net, and it will be Grubauer they deal. He needs a raise and they're better served putting that money elsewhere than into their backup slot.

Samsonov is coming over this year, and the plan will be for him to back up Holtby.

It's highly unlikely that they will be adding any NHL goaltenders this summer.

Andre Burakovsky had a rough year, missing a lot of time due to injury, and it wouldn't surprise me if they made him available in a deal. He is signed through 2019 and carries a $3M cap hit. The issue is that they'd need to fill that same slot: #2/#3 scoring winger. So they may just keep him as a project and work on his game.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

That piece that hasn't worked out is Russell. Take Russell that deal would be more tolerable. If you say Larsson/Klefbom haven't worked out for the Oilers you basically haven't watched them.

Anyhow, Oilers are also full of bottom 6 types.. we have tons of grit, size (Khaira, Kassian, Lucic, Sleppy, Draisaitl, etc). We don't need more grinder types.

Yeah I must have missed that, but Larsson has been excellent. People can’t seem to wrap their heads around his value to us because we paid such a ridiculous price for him but he is a strong #2 defenceman. He has absolutely ‘worked out’ here. He just isn’t and was never worth Taylor Hall.

 

[Dan Kelly]

Just assuming that if the Caps do not win the cup (or maybe even don't make it past the Penguins) that they'd be interested in moving on from some core players.

To WSH:
Jesse Puljujärvi
EDM 2018 1st (10th overall)
Cam Talbot

To EDM:
Andre Burakovsky
Braden Holtby
FLA 2018 2nd (~45th overall)
One caps D prospect not named Johansen - (Siegenthaler, Hobbs, Williams)

I think the value can be shifted a little bit either way, but it in general would make sense for both squads. Burakovsky and McDavid have some chemistry from their one season together in Erie. Holtby makes the EDM squad a lot better over the next two years and WSH can run with Gruby and Talbot next year while Samsonov gets a year of play in the AHL.

don't overlook Vanecek ! he and Samsonov give the Caps an enormous amount of goaltending depth in the system. and i think the Oilers would have more interest in Bowey than Hobbs as Bowey is a little further along in his development.

 

[voxel]

don't overlook Vanecek ! he and Samsonov give the Caps an enormous amount of goaltending depth in the system. and i think the Oilers would have more interest in Bowey than Hobbs as Bowey is a little further along in his development.

Oilers might be interested in Bowey but as a fan.. I want nothing to do with him. Dumb. Watced him with Draisaitl in the WHL. But since it's Chia.. it will be another Griffin Reinhart trade and Bowey will bust.

 

[EDMOILERS9729]

I seriously question why on earth Edmonton would consider this.

McDavid is McDavid. Junior chemistry from four years ago doesn’t matter one iota.

Talbot is fine as a starter. He had a bad year - Holtby did too. I don’t see how Holtby coming off a miserable year ‘makes Edmonton better over the next two years’. By the way you’re hashing this deal out you’re assuming he’s some major upgrade on Talbot and I don’t agree with that at all.

The way I see this is Puljujarvi and Burakovsky are an approximate value wash, so we’re submarining a top ten pick to pick up a guy that had a worse season than Talbot did, pick up a middling D prospect, and drop 35 spots. Not interested.

I wouldn’t touch your deal with a ten foot pole to be honest. I don’t think it makes us better short term, it definitely doesn’t help us long term, and we pick up a cool five million in salary. Back to the drawing board.

This pretty much sums it up.