Proposal: [EDM/NYR] Nurse for Buchnevich

[ChaoticOrange]

You guys know this is bad, right?

Yeah, no I definitely wouldn't be looking at this 1 for 1, but a deal for a Ranger winger does make sense for us now that they've got Laffy and Kakko long term as well as Panarin. You'd think either a Kreider or a Buchnevich could be had.

Personally I think LW/RW and guys playing one side or the other is overrated. I'm a right shot that played mostly wing and all through hockey i was used on either side.

Defensive breakouts/position were easier on the right side as a right shot, but I liked the left side better for shooting.

 

[bernmeister]

If I was the Oilers I'd hope for a better return because of Nurse's perceived value. That said, if this was the best deal out there for him I'd pull the trigger. Buchnevich is a young top 6 two way winger with upside. And the Oilers save 2.5m in cap.

But to be clear, imo most NYR fans do not want Nurse for Buch, b'c flat cap, exp drft, etc.
Broberg or bust, NY adds signif

 

[TFHockey]

Nurse is worth more than Buchnevich, No question. However it isn't beyond the realm of possibility he gets dealt for a top 6 winger.

 

[TFHockey]

But to be clear, imo most NYR fans do not want Nurse for Buch, b'c flat cap, exp drft, etc.
Broberg or bust, NY adds signif

Broberg
Neal
K.Russell




Buchnevich
Delangelo

DO IT BERN!

 

[Trxjw]

Yeah, no I definitely wouldn't be looking at this 1 for 1, but a deal for a Ranger winger does make sense for us now that they've got Laffy and Kakko long term as well as Panarin. You'd think either a Kreider or a Buchnevich could be had.

Kreider isn't going anywhere any time soon. Some fans are pushing for it around here but he's an important piece on and off the ice. Currently hosting K'Andre Miller at his house, so I expect he'll take an even bigger leadership role going forward.

If the Rangers are going to move a winger it'll almost certainly be Buchnevich. He's the only guy who actually has good value who isn't untouchable or too important.

 

[bernmeister]

Broberg
Neal
K.Russell




Buchnevich
Delangelo

DO IT BERN!

the upper caps reminds me of Rob Schneider in an Adam Sandler film or two:
"you can do it"!
lol.

Your offer deserves serious consideration.
The cap is roughly 10.5 taken on by NY

versus an immediate
3.25 on Buch
so that is 7.25 immediate relief, approx, to Oil, tho NY is off the hook for lion's share of that to pay Deangelo, who I expect will take 4.5 ish this year if he accepts min, but with understanding it will escalate annually next deal.

Amazing.
You finally come to the table and we appear to have a deal.
NY buys their blue chip for cap, and while it is tight, we can swing that, esp if we work with Staal.
I also have plans to move Smith, which will help.

Your offer is not cheap. It is 3 more seasons of 32 yr old Neal at 5.75 and 1 next season of Russell at 4.0.
Russell is RD but shoots lefty so that can work.

I would like a sweetener, a separate second deal.
Notoriously, both Pulju and Lias A are distractions. I'd want a change of scenery side deal. I did not see Pulju listed on CF, but he is end of elc or something like that and Lias is def elc, gotta be ballpark similar #s.

Can we say done and done on both deals?

 

[TFHockey]

the upper caps reminds me of Rob Schneider in an Adam Sandler film or two:
"you can do it"!
lol.

Your offer deserves serious consideration.
The cap is roughly 10.5 taken on by NY

versus an immediate
3.25 on Buch
so that is 7.25 immediate relief, approx, to Oil, tho NY is off the hook for lion's share of that to pay Deangelo, who I expect will take 4.5 ish this year if he accepts min, but with understanding it will escalate annually next deal.

Amazing.
You finally come to the table and we appear to have a deal.
NY buys their blue chip for cap, and while it is tight, we can swing that, esp if we work with Staal.
I also have plans to move Smith, which will help.

Your offer is not cheap. It is 3 more seasons of 32 yr old Neal at 5.75 and 1 next season of Russell at 4.0.
Russell is RD but shoots lefty so that can work.

I would like a sweetener, a separate second deal.
Notoriously, both Pulju and Lias A are distractions. I'd want a change of scenery side deal. I did not see Pulju listed on CF, but he is end of elc or something like that and Lias is def elc, gotta be ballpark similar #s.

Can we say done and done on both deals?

I think freeing up that kind of cap space for two overpaid guys and gaining Buch and Delangelo is a pretty big win for the Oilers. Yes they lose Broberg who projects better than Bouchard now, but getting Delangelo means we can deal Larsson. If you guys want Puljujarvi as well we'd like a 2nd and a later pick back. Doesn't have to be this year but a 2020 3rd would be nice.

So 2nd offer:



Broberg
Neal
Russell
Puljujarvi




Buchnevich
Delangelo
2nd rounder 2021
Dallas Stars 2020 3rd rounder

 

[bernmeister]

I think freeing up that kind of cap space for two overpaid guys and gaining Buch and Delangelo is a pretty big win for the Oilers. Yes they lose Broberg who projects better than Bouchard now, but getting Delangelo means we can deal Larsson. If you guys want Puljujarvi as well we'd like a 2nd and a later pick back. Doesn't have to be this year but a 2020 3rd would be nice.

So 2nd offer:



Broberg
Neal
Russell
Puljujarvi




Buchnevich
Delangelo
2nd rounder 2021
Dallas Stars 2020 3rd rounder

No, I don't mind being generous since it is only $ we are able to leverage. But my sweetener was not Pulj for more picks, it was Pulj for Lias straight up. And neither of us should be sold on either guy. I just wanna be rid of the distraction. But if one for one headache for headache doesn't work for you, then I'll unload the ingrate elsewhere.

Original deal already accepted, as is, no supplemental deal no Pulj-Lias.
We are clear/confirmed?

If yes we can make a separate thread....
If no specify why since that was already a deal.

 

[TFHockey]

No, I don't mind being generous since it is only $ we are able to leverage. But my sweetener was not Pulj for more picks, it was Pulj for Lias straight up. And neither of us should be sold on either guy. I just wanna be rid of the distraction. But if one for one headache for headache doesn't work for you, then I'll unload the ingrate elsewhere.

Original deal already accepted, as is, no supplemental deal no Pulj-Lias.
We are clear/confirmed?

If yes we can make a separate thread....
If no specify why since that was already a deal.

Sure we are good to go. Nice doing business with you.

 

[Mikachu93]

Oilers fans are very confused right now and outside of McDavid and Drai we have no idea how this organization values anyone.

We were told a week into camp that Philip Broberg had "passed" Bouchard on the depth chart, even though they don't play on the same side of the ice.

We signed Kassian to 4X3.2, and the scribes praised his heart and drive, only for him to completely no-show the playoffs.

We get told that Smith is better than Koskinen, because Smith "Battles", even though there's a 15 point difference in their save percentages.

John Shannon said yesterday that Caleb Jones "really struggled" against the Blackhawks, even though he tilted the ice so overwhelmingly positively he broke the damn scale.

Fans would probably consider your deal, but the Mouth of Sauron (Bob Stauffer, employed by the Oilers, hosts a two hour radio show every weekday about the Oilers, and routinely has his opinions provided to him by the organization which he then parrots on the radio) had something along these lines to say yesterday:

"If Nurse continues to grow, maybe we'll be talking about him as a Hall of Fame defenceman".

This is clearly insane, but it might give some insight as to how the Oilers see Nurse.

Thank you for the further context.

I didn’t know if we were overvaluing Buchnevich and Georgiev or undervaluing Nurse but was surprised at some of the responses in this thread.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Thank you for the further context.

I didn’t know if we were overvaluing Buchnevich and Georgiev or undervaluing Nurse but was surprised at some of the responses in this thread.

No problem.

The issue is that our biggest issue is on the blueline, so trades that remove a big piece of the blueline for "lesser parts" aren't going to be easy for this fanbase to swallow. Under Chiarelli, all we did was downgrade and it never worked out for us. See the Eberle trade tree for a prime example.

 

[Mikachu93]

No problem.

The issue is that our biggest issue is on the blueline, so trades that remove a big piece of the blueline for "lesser parts" aren't going to be easy for this fanbase to swallow. Under Chiarelli, all we did was downgrade and it never worked out for us. See the Eberle trade tree for a prime example.

That’s fair. From a Rangers standpoint, their biggest hole is finding a top 4 LHD to pair with Trouba while they wait for their prospects (K’Andre Miller, Zac Jones, Matt Robertson) to cook a year or two.

Doesn’t look like they make great trading partners at this point.

 

[ElPrimeTime]

No problem.

The issue is that our biggest issue is on the blueline, so trades that remove a big piece of the blueline for "lesser parts" aren't going to be easy for this fanbase to swallow. Under Chiarelli, all we did was downgrade and it never worked out for us. See the Eberle trade tree for a prime example.

For the love of god, please don't make me see the Eberle trade tree. It's so sad. Pretty soon we'll have the Hall trade tree as well.

 

[Rangers394]

Broberg
Neal
K.Russell




Buchnevich
Delangelo

DO IT BERN!

Tell me more about Broberg

 

[Homesick]

I'm sure there would be much better (one for one) offers out there if Nurse was made available. (M.Domi for example)

 

[TFHockey]

Tell me more about Broberg

He is our top defensive prospect (LHD). He has moved ahead of Bouchard from what I've heard recently and was practicing with the big club in the bubble before the play in round. Oiler fans have high, high hopes for Broberg and if he becomes the top pairing guy we all hope he can be will allow Edmonton to have a decent top pairing for the first time since, I dunno, Pronger probably.

 

[bernmeister]

Tell me more about Broberg

8OA decent size, great speed LD who is elc and exp dr exempt.

Yes, it is a large price to pay, and we have to redouble efforts moving Strome, etc, and I have a plan for that.
Point is, while expensive, we are basically using $ as leverage to buy a high quality blue chip.

This is a small wince for Oil, but they are getting top 6 W help in Buch on good # for this year and absorb Deangelo enabling them to make other moves, and key for them, some structural cap relief.

Believe it or not, this is a win win.

 

[GoingInDrai]

Would 1 for 1 be fair for both sides? If not who adds what?

Nurse for Buchnevich and one of Georgiev or Lemieux

 

[bernmeister]

Nurse for Buchnevich and one of Georgiev or Lemieux

nope.
we don't want Nurse and his cap hit or term
we expect better offer eventually Geo + for DET 2nd
and Lemieux is not available.

OP means well but people, exp drft is upon us.
Rangers have to protect Lindgren and Trouba, even moving Deangelo.

Don't want to use an exp slot on Nurse.

Arguably, at best we want a very short term stop gap, not a $ guy w/term, and we should wait on that. We need to see how close K'Andre Miller is/isn't and we have another 3 or so LD prospects on top of Hajek and Rykov.

Nurse is not a fit.

 

[Homesick]

8OA decent size, great speed LD who is elc and exp dr exempt.

Yes, it is a large price to pay, and we have to redouble efforts moving Strome, etc, and I have a plan for that.
Point is, while expensive, we are basically using $ as leverage to buy a high quality blue chip.

This is a small wince for Oil, but they are getting top 6 W help in Buch on good # for this year and absorb Deangelo enabling them to make other moves, and key for them, some structural cap relief.

Believe it or not, this is a win win.

Deangelo is going to be looking for a hefty raise and so will Buchnevich after this season so there really would be no cap relief for the Oilers at all.
They could keep Nurse and Broberg and hope that Athanasiou does better with a full camp this fall

 

[bernmeister]

Deangelo is going to be looking for a hefty raise and so will Buchnevich after this season so there really would be no cap relief for the Oilers at all.
They could keep Nurse and Broberg and hope that Athanasiou does better with a full camp this fall

The IMMEDIATE facts say otherwise.
Sure, at some point everyone wants to get paid, and the producers who yield results are salaried accordingly.

bold: wherever he plays, of course Deangelo will get a raise; he's been on a one year stopgap show me, and wowed us. However, like everyone else, there are immediate factors: flat cap, covid impact to economy, exp draft, and hard cap mgmt. Translation: he may want well north of 5.5 to start, ideally w/signif term, but given overall explained above, he will get 4.5 or so at most to start on a short term 1-2 year deal, with an understanding [which will be informal, he has not choice, like it or not] that in 1-2 years when his deal ends, and we expect a vaccine for covid and things to somewhat return to normal, his follow up will start at 5 or so and graduate per year.

But that immediate 4.5 and his existing rfa status confirms he will be immediately affordable, including the next 2-3 years.

Similarly Buch is 3.25 next year, and I think he also has end of rfa around the corner, but maybe one or so more year after next season.

Let us be reminded, Oilers win big on structural cap reform.
No ?, as to the non prospects, Oil get cheaper, younger and better.

Buch>>>>Neal
Deangelo>>>>Russell

But as to next season, including Broberg's elc $ cap off the books, it is ballpark 10 + removed vs an immediate actual of 3.25 on Buch. Figure the reasonable estimate of 4.5 for ADeA, and that is 7.75ish, which is about 3m immediate cap savings vs Neal, Russell and Bro.

Those numbers do not lie. There is both immediate savings and structural cap savings to EDM. They win every facet of the deal except surrender of Broberg.

But wait, there's more. As @TFHockey noted, acquisition of the versatile Deangelo, a righty RD who can also play left, facilitates moving Larsson. Whatever Larsson snags, that could be not only assets, but also cap savings.

I respectfully remind that to be completely fair, the whole picture needs to be viewed to extent possible, and you need to acknowledge and connect all those dots.

Underline:
Nurse. Nurse has no part of this deal; this deal does not impact that. You have Nurse now and you will have him immediately after. Keep him or move him, that's up to you guys.

Optimistic upon reconsideration you'll agree this a win win.

 

[Chayos]

The IMMEDIATE facts say otherwise.
Sure, at some point everyone wants to get paid, and the producers who yield results are salaried accordingly.

bold: wherever he plays, of course Deangelo will get a raise; he's been on a one year stopgap show me, and wowed us. However, like everyone else, there are immediate factors: flat cap, covid impact to economy, exp draft, and hard cap mgmt. Translation: he may want well north of 5.5 to start, ideally w/signif term, but given overall explained above, he will get 4.5 or so at most to start on a short term 1-2 year deal, with an understanding [which will be informal, he has not choice, like it or not] that in 1-2 years when his deal ends, and we expect a vaccine for covid and things to somewhat return to normal, his follow up will start at 5 or so and graduate per year.

But that immediate 4.5 and his existing rfa status confirms he will be immediately affordable, including the next 2-3 years.

Similarly Buch is 3.25 next year, and I think he also has end of rfa around the corner, but maybe one or so more year after next season.

Let us be reminded, Oilers win big on structural cap reform.
No ?, as to the non prospects, Oil get cheaper, younger and better.

Buch>>>>Neal
Deangelo>>>>Russell

But as to next season, including Broberg's elc $ cap off the books, it is ballpark 10 + removed vs an immediate actual of 3.25 on Buch. Figure the reasonable estimate of 4.5 for ADeA, and that is 7.75ish, which is about 3m immediate cap savings vs Neal, Russell and Bro.

Those numbers do not lie. There is both immediate savings and structural cap savings to EDM. They win every facet of the deal except surrender of Broberg.

But wait, there's more. As @TFHockey noted, acquisition of the versatile Deangelo, a righty RD who can also play left, facilitates moving Larsson. Whatever Larsson snags, that could be not only assets, but also cap savings.

I respectfully remind that to be completely fair, the whole picture needs to be viewed to extent possible, and you need to acknowledge and connect all those dots.

Underline:
Nurse. Nurse has no part of this deal; this deal does not impact that. You have Nurse now and you will have him immediately after. Keep him or move him, that's up to you guys.

Optimistic upon reconsideration you'll agree this a win win.

I agree this deal is a win for the oilers but I feel you are undervaluing what ADA wil cost. I estimate he will be about 1 million more than what you expect. I still make this deal as the assets fill up spots where dead cap now reside, but it is more revenue neutral.

 

[bernmeister]

I agree this deal is a win for the oilers but I feel you are undervaluing what ADA wil cost. I estimate he will be about 1 million more than what you expect. I still make this deal as the assets fill up spots where dead cap now reside, but it is more revenue neutral.

I admit my projection is an estimate; think we are ballpark in agreement, and I think it is fair to view it as closer we are to now, the cheaper Deangelo is, and the further out over time, the more the player will command a higher number going forward, barring injury and presuming he keeps progressing, which there is no immediate basis to not expect.

 

[TFHockey]

I see that deal as bad cap money being exchanged for good cap money, with a little bit of savings going our way.

The cost of paying Buchnevich and Delangelo $8 Million or so in cap space vs. paying Neal and Russell $9.75 Million in cap space is a top prospect. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[aufheben]

Would 1 for 1 be fair for both sides? If not who adds what?

Good deal.