Post-Game Talk: ECSF Gm 4 | FLYERS (A) vs. Islanders (H) | Sun., Aug. 30, 2020

[flyerslducks]

Hey if they payed Hayes his money for 2 years I would be down. There will likely end up being a half decade when Hayes contract becomes an issue. He isn't as good as people think he is.

Couts is great, I see no flaws in the roster. The cup should be a lock.

by that time we will have voracek/giroux off the contract, jvr off. We should be fine. We have so many young players coming in. I think the only big contracts are going to be hart so we should be fine. Will be really interesting to see what hart gets

 

[deadhead]

W
Like yeah our top guys definitely need to be better but we’re essentially getting nothing out of bottom six these playoffs which wasn’t the case in the regular season.

We also dictated the play much more in the regular season at 5v5 which obviously isn’t happening these playoffs either.

ES scoring, regular season

Laughton 49g 13-14 27
JVR 66g 15-16 31
Farabee 52g 7-12 19

Pitlick 63g 8-12 20
Raffl 58g 7-11 18
NAK 36g 5-7 12

Frost 20g 1-5 6
Bunnaman 21g 1-1 2
Vorobyev 20g 1-2 3
Twarynski 15g 1-0 1

 

[Striiker]

Whole picture....means shit if the results are not there. He will have good spreadsheet stats playing with Couts, because that's what Couts does.

You can't seem to accept that results matter. He...and TK are 8th and 9th in team scoring this playoffs. They should be top 3. NOT ENOUGH. f*** the excuses.....just get it done. This will be the 3rd straight playoffs where Giroux has come up way short. That is a trend. If he actually produced as expected, along with TK doing the same, we could be up 3-1.

Oh well, they tried hard. That's enough.

Again, the results are the only thing that matter for wins, but they're not the only thing that matters for player evaluation, which is what's being discussed here. A player can have a great game and get zero points. This isn't even debatable, it's merely common sense, as I'm sure you know.
*And before a strawman appears from anyone, I'm not just talking about cOrSi or anything like that either. I'm talking about watching them on the ice and seeing how they're playing.

As far as "3rd straight playoffs", you should see my chart above because I think your memory is failing you. Unless we're going to blame him for being injured?

I get that you're emotional, but you're lashing out at the wrong people. We have to be logical and put a little effort into looking at what's actually going on.

 

[Tripod]

Couts has 3 more points, one of which Giroux set up but didn't get credit for, and he didnt get saddled with Derek Grant for a few games. Seems like an odd line to draw for anyone who has been watching the series.

When we are talking about so few games...3 points is the difference between wins/losses.

G, Jake, TK, JVR....2 points combined in NYI series. If they had:

Giroux with 3
Jake with 3
TK with 3
JVR with 2

...that's 9 more points between them. And that is only "asking" the top 3 listed to be at a 61 point pace and JVR at a 41 point pace. But those extra 9 points means an extra 3-5 goals most likely. And that very well means a 3-1 series lead for us.

We just are not going to win a series when 4/6 of your top forwards have 2 points COMBINED in 4 games. At some point, nothing else matters but producing. And they are not doing it and we are losing because of it.

 

[BiggE]

Is Giroux still at the peak of his prime? No. Is he still a very good player who has been snakebit this spring? Yes, he is.

Quite a few players have come up small this spring, but AV’s play not to lose strategy coupled with having a simpleton running the powerplay puts them at a disadvantage every game.

I more upset with the HC, his trained monkey Michel and players like Niskanen and TK than I’m upset with Giroux.

 

[Tripod]

Again, the results are the only thing that matter for wins, but they're not the only thing that matters for player evaluation, which is what's being discussed here. A player can have a great game and get zero points. This isn't even debatable, it's merely common sense, as I'm sure you know.
*And before a strawman appears from anyone, I'm not just talking about cOrSi or anything like that either. I'm talking about watching them on the ice and seeing how they're playing.

As far as "3rd straight playoffs", you should see my chart above because I think your memory is failing you. Unless we're going to blame him for being injured?

I get that you're emotional, but you're lashing out at the wrong people. We have to be logical and put a little effort into looking at what's actually going on.

no offense, but your chart is your opinion. Giroux has not been our 2nd best player this playoffs.

Anyways, I am out for the evening.

 

[Striiker]

no offense, but your chart is your opinion. Giroux has not been our 2nd best player this playoffs.

Anyways, I am out for the evening.

To clarify, I was referring to the previous years, not this one.

 

[Tripod]

To clarify, I was referring to the previous years, not this one.

really?

2019-2020 (10)

5

Playing very well and one of our 2 best forwards

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[bobbythebrain]

Our top 5 scorers from the season sit dead last w 26 points, compared to the current team's remaining top 5 scorers.
They have 9 points of that this series, so we are actually regressing.

Really confused how some people are saying ANY of our top guys are playing fine.. They aren't. They have disappeared these playoffs and no amount of excuses can change that

 

[Striiker]

really?

2019-2020 (10)

5

Playing very well and one of our 2 best forwards

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I’m aware that’s what it says.

Im saying that when I told you to check the chart I was saying to look at the previous years, not this year. Specifically the part where he was injured.

 

[Starat327]

Playing well <> getting results. You can play well and not get a result. (All of Girouxs underlying metrics say he's playing well, he's just been unfortunate to hit 4 posts [by my count, but I could be wrong]).

You can also get a result while not playing well. (Nate Thompson has a goal and i see noone singing his praises)

This isn't hard people.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Playing well <> getting results. You can play well and not get a result. (All of Girouxs underlying metrics say he's playing well, he's just been unfortunate to hit 4 posts [by my count, but I could be wrong]).

You can also get a result while not playing well. (Nate Thompson has a goal and i see noone singing his praises)

This isn't hard people.

If Giroux didn't wear a C most of these people wouldn't have such issue with his play

 

[bobbythebrain]

If Giroux didn't wear a C most of these people wouldn't have such issue with his play

I think the 8mil and previous production has alot more to do with it than the C

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think the 8mil and previous production has alot more to do with it than the C

If that were true then JVR at 7.5 should be getting vastly more attention than he is. Nah, it's the C. It always makes Philly fans unreasonable about player evaluation. Nothing is ever good enough.

 

[flyerslducks]

f*** this horse shit about "playing well".

We have played the NYI 4 games.....and have 0 2nd period goals and 1 3rd period goal that came with the goalie pulled.

If you are scoring ZERO goals 5vs5 for 2 periods of every game, EVERYONE is to blame. And yes, the people EXPECTED to produce, should be blamed more.

Voracek has 0 points this series
Giroux has 1 point this series
TK has 1 point this series
JVR has zero points this series....or since hockey returned

That is 4/5 top paid forwards. It's dog shit production from guys expected to produce. Speaking of dog:

Hayes 3 points in 4 games
Couts 3 points in 4 games

Our top 2 C are at least producing as expected....it's a 61 point pace for both.

If Jake had 3 pts, Giroux 3, TK 3, and JVR 2....that is 9 extra points...which at min is 3 more goals but more likely 4-6. That would mean a 2-2 series at worst right now for us.

The top line had lots of chances tonight and hopefully that continues next game. But if you don't score in those chances, it means nothing. Let's see the fight they have inside....or do they go silently into the night, again.

I honestly see nothing wrong with what is being said here

 

[Starat327]

If that were true then JVR at 7.5 should be getting vastly more attention than he is. Nah, it's the C. It always makes Philly fans unreasonable about player evaluation. Nothing is ever good enough.

Remember when Mike Richards didn't deserve it anymore, either? It really is a curse.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Remember qhen Mike Richards didn't deserve it anymore, either? It really is a curse.

That began in 2010.

 

[Starat327]

That began in 2010.

f***ing bum had no heart. No skill. Shouldve still been playing on the phantoms at that point.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Wait, no. That began in 2009.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

I read about 100 posts in this thread last night before bailing and decided to read the rest tonight.

I am not sure what was the bigger chore, watching the first 4 games of this series or reading this thread.

Why did I subject myself to either?

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

Half this board is hilarious.

AV puts Thompson, Grant, Pitlick, Hagg, Braun, and Niskanen in the game over JVR, Raffl, Frost, Ghost and Friedman and they praise him or at least say he has no choice.

Then they say “why we no score?????”

Then he puts G and V on our two 4th lines.

“G no score goals. He is jabroni!”

AV institutes a system/play style that haven’t played all season and does exactly what Montreal and NYI want to you to do.

Again “AV is a coach and you aren’t a dentist so... Why we no score no goals dude? G is bad captain!”

Seriously makes no sense.

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

Half this board is hilarious.

AV puts Thompson, Grant, Pitlick, Hagg, Braun, and Niskanen in the game over JVR, Raffl, Frost, Ghost and Friedman and they praise him or at least say he has no choice.

Then they say “why we no score?????”

Then he puts G and V on our two 4th lines.

“G no score goals. He is jabroni!”

AV institutes a system/play style that haven’t played all season and does exactly what Montreal and NYI want to you to do.

Again “AV is a coach and you aren’t a dentist so... Why we no score no goals dude? G is bad captain!”

Seriously makes no sense.

Edit: I was going to do the lower case and capital letter like Striiker but it would have taken too long

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

AV teams almost neer have elite producing players, anyway. His game plan by design doesnt usually allot for one wildly producing line, and generally goes to a committee scoring approach.

It’s almost as if he plans to play ultra conservative and rides great/generational goalies to the finals. Not the best recipe to be a consistent contender.

Why is that we have to adjust to Montreal and NY, but they don’t have to adjust to our style of play? Montreal was near the bottom of the conferences and NY is a good not great team.

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

How is JVR a disappointment? The guys been stuck on the bench or with 4th liners all playoffs.

He's never had a single legit chance.

And when he finally got a chance to play with a real center the last two games he has been one of our better players. Funny huh

 

[Striiker]

And when he finally got a chance to play with a real center the last two games he has been one of our better players. Funny huh

And even then, Laughton hasn't been good in the playoffs at all. He's just not Grant or Thompson, which is a massive upgrade.

JVRs always been part of the solution, not the problem. He's just not being taken advantage of. Which is especially bizarre when he's one of our best goal scorers and we're desperately in need of goals.