Post-Game Talk: ECQF 3 (Flyers lead series 2-1): FLYERS 1 vs. Canadiens 0, Sunday, Aug. 16, 2020

[Magua]

Kids are nasty. My 18 yo cousin works at a bistro down the shore so she stays down most of the summer. She knows the lifeguards and stuff, goes to parties sometimes. Crushes on a few of the guards...classic shit

She got out of the water today (I stayed in for a few extra minutes to catch one last wave) and when she passed the lifeguard (one she isn't crushing on) she said hi and he goes "so there's some conspiracy theories floating around....I've been talking to people and we kind of think you're f***ing your cousins"

Now, me and my brother don't care because we're above that petty drama, but she did because that's her demographic, and she was hurt. It's just baffling that some people can be so terrible to people. Don't be terrible to people.

I told her to let it roll off her back. Also told her it wasn't her fault that this guy is jealous of a) me and my bro being close to her and b) her actually having family who cares about her.

She seemed to take that well, at least. She's going off to college here in a few days so she'll be able to put that in the past quickly.

Moral of the story: don't be a dick. I also politely told the guard to go f*** himself shortly thereafter, but was actually not mean about it. Told him "he shouldn't believe everything he hears", more or less with no context. But he knew what I meant because he didn't say anything

I assume this is a Michel Therrien allegory.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

I've watched every game for the last 30 years (practically). Seems to me the finger should be pointed at our highest paid players who aren't scoring. Not Nate Thompson and our (deserved) COY candidate. But I guess if your charts tell you Frost and Farabee are the answer - ok. That's not what the eye test says. Have fun kiddos.

LGF!!

Watching 30 years of Flyers teams and deciding that depth players aren't important is an interesting take. Not like there have been decades of teams that had great top ends that were killed by a lack of depth. Not like the 2 cups they won were won by teams that had great depth.

Couts is great, I see no flaws in the lineup. The cup should be a lock.

 

[Striiker]

Watching 30 years of Flyers teams and deciding that depth players aren't important is an interesting take. Not like there have been decades of teams that had great top ends that were killed by a lack of depth. Not like the 2 cups they won were won by teams that had great depth.

Couts is great, I see no flaws in the lineup. The cup should be a lock.

Authentic fans never care about the bad players. The Haggs or the Thompsons or the Rinaldos.
Authentic fans just want to blame the stars, even when the stars are the only reason we're up 2-1 in this series.

He checks all the boxes.

 

[DancingPanther]

I assume this is a Michel Therrien allegory.

TIL Provorov is f***ing Michel Therrien

 

[DancingPanther]

 

[Striiker]

TIL Provorov is f***ing Michel Therrien

This might actually be the reason his still on the top unit.

I’m not ruling anything out.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

It reflects a paucity of talent, because athletic talent is on the far end of the curve, so there is far more mediocre (replacement level, just above or below, than legitimate top 6/top 4 players).

So coaches work around that, things you'd ask of your first two lines you're often hesitant to ask of your bottom six lines, b/c the risk/reward tradeoff is different - scoring lines can score, so if they take chances there's a real benefit, when less talented lines take the same chances, the costs are the same but the benefits (scoring) is much lower. So you want your less talented lines to be more conservative offensively but more disciplined defensively.

Same on defense, most 3rd pair defensemen shouldn't take the same chances pinching, driving the net, etc. you'll allow a faster, more talented player.

Now if you have great depth, that changes the calculus, but take Frost, after his first two games he had 0-4 4 his next 18 games, so not a lot of benefit having him playing aggressively on offense, but he had a high xGA, or high cost to his style of play. So how do you use him right now? Hope he finds his scoring touch in a tough playoff series and live with his gaffes? Have him play more of a defensive style of play, which he's not well suited to do?

The ideal 3C most of the time is a two way player who is responsible defensively but has enough skill to exploit an opportunity or mismatch on offense. We have that guy, unfortunately he's on IR.

Some of the same biases exist in your reply.

Vegas's expansion season was an eye opening exercise for the league, but few teams have implemented any lessons learned.

There's no rule book that says you need to employ defensive, conservative defensemen in your 3rd pair, yet so many teams still do it.

Young centres, like Frost, can benefit from being sheltered, but tend to fit in fine if you play them with competent wingers. The Habs are actually proving this in this series.

There's also no rule that the bottom six needs to be devoid of talent, as the Blues showed last year. The main bias that persists is that the bottom six, particularly an "energy line", need to be "trustworthy", which means something different to each coach.

I know Frost isn't getting a shot, but there is a perfectly competent 3C in the lineup already if they aren't scared to dress Frost: Kevin Hayes. It does suck that NP isn't fit to play, but the Flyers have the pieces to dress possession winners on all 4 lines and through all 3 defensive pairs, but they are choosing what they perceive to be safer options... unfortunately, these players are talentless possession black holes.

This might work against the Habs, but the Flyers will likely face a very similar structure next in the Isles (if they advance), who are deeper and better equipped to take advantage of these lineup decisions.

 

[DancingPanther]

This might actually be the reason his still on the top unit.

I’m not ruling anything out.

 

[deadhead]

The bottom six isn't devoid of talent if you're luck enough to have the right depth.

If Patrick and Lindblom were healthy:
G - Couts - Voracek
Lindblom - Hayes - TK
JVR - Patrick - NAK
Raffl - Laughton - Pitlick

That third line would play more of an offensive role, but it would be able to match against top lines as well.
That's why next year is going to be so exciting, add Frost, Farabee, Laczynski, and maybe some others and you have the kind of depth that can withstand an injury or two.
And it will allow the Flyers to take their time with Ratcliffe, JOB and Brink and not rush them.

Same on defense, you can have Ghost - Friedman as your third pair, with Zamula, Hogberg and Wylie in the wings.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

I assume this is a Michel Therrien allegory.

Sounded like the story that lead to the founding of Springfield and Shelbyville to me.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The bottom six isn't devoid of talent if you're luck enough to have the right depth.

If Patrick and Lindblom were healthy:
G - Couts - Voracek
Lindblom - Hayes - TK
JVR - Patrick - NAK
Raffl - Laughton - Pitlick

That third line would play more of an offensive role, but it would be able to match against top lines as well.
That's why next year is going to be so exciting, add Frost, Farabee, Laczynski, and maybe some others and you have the kind of depth that can withstand an injury or two.
And it will allow the Flyers to take their time with Ratcliffe, JOB and Brink and not rush them.

Same on defense, you can have Ghost - Friedman as your third pair, with Zamula, Hogberg and Wylie in the wings.

Who needs luck? We can improve the bottom six with Frost, and Farabee.

We can have a better bottom six by choosing to have a better bottom six.

 

[deadhead]

Who needs luck? We can improve the bottom six with Frost, and Farabee.

We can have a better bottom six by choosing to have a better bottom six.

Maybe they can improve the bottom six, but looking at 2011-12, when Couts plays like dogshit to start his career, I'm not betting on Frost. I think he's more likely to be Wellwood than Barzal at this point in his career.

Farabee is a different issue, I think he could be valuable if spotted, but playoff hockey the way he plays the game is a good bet to wear him down, so I wouldn't want him to play every other night.

And I've already lobbied for Bunnaman on the 4th line.

 

[TB87]

Some of the same biases exist in your reply.

Vegas's expansion season was an eye opening exercise for the league, but few teams have implemented any lessons learned.

There's no rule book that says you need to employ defensive, conservative defensemen in your 3rd pair, yet so many teams still do it.

Young centres, like Frost, can benefit from being sheltered, but tend to fit in fine if you play them with competent wingers. The Habs are actually proving this in this series.

There's also no rule that the bottom six needs to be devoid of talent, as the Blues showed last year. The main bias that persists is that the bottom six, particularly an "energy line", need to be "trustworthy", which means something different to each coach.

I know Frost isn't getting a shot, but there is a perfectly competent 3C in the lineup already if they aren't scared to dress Frost: Kevin Hayes. It does suck that NP isn't fit to play, but the Flyers have the pieces to dress possession winners on all 4 lines and through all 3 defensive pairs, but they are choosing what they perceive to be safer options... unfortunately, these players are talentless possession black holes.

This might work against the Habs, but the Flyers will likely face a very similar structure next in the Isles (if they advance), who are deeper and better equipped to take advantage of these lineup decisions.

This is a glorious post. If I could like it twice, I would.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Maybe they can improve the bottom six, but looking at 2011-12, when Couts plays like dogshit to start his career, I'm not betting on Frost. I think he's more likely to be Wellwood than Barzal at this point in his career.

Farabee is a different issue, I think he could be valuable if spotted, but playoff hockey the way he plays the game is a good bet to wear him down, so I wouldn't want him to play every other night.

And I've already lobbied for Bunnaman on the 4th line.

We don't need Barzal. We need someone better than Thompson. This bar is low.

 

[tucson83]

Sure, some people are genuinely fine with whatever.

But I'm talking about the people scolding others for having the nerve to question the staff.

i get that you dont like the staff but what coaches do you prefer we should get that would satisfy you?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Authentic fans never care about the bad players. The Haggs or the Thompsons or the Rinaldos.
Authentic fans just want to blame the stars, even when the stars are the only reason we're up 2-1 in this series.

He checks all the boxes.

As the resident #AuthenticFan expert, they most certainly care about the bad players.

Those players are the ones they like the most. Rinaldo is the GOAT cause he hits unlike those guys that show no heart. If we had a team of Rinaldo’s we would have won the Cup years ago.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

i get that you dont like the staff but what coaches do you prefer we should get that would satisfy you?

Change the PP & bottom six.

 

[BiggE]

Guess today was the day the Yotes turned back into pumpkins.

 

[deadhead]

As the resident #AuthenticFan expert, they most certainly care about the bad players.

Those players are the ones they like the most. Rinaldo is the GOAT cause he hits unlike those guys that show no heart. If we had a team of Rinaldo’s we would have won the Cup years ago.

If Rinaldo had a brain, he'd be one the greatest 4th line forwards of all time, unfortunately, what he gave with his grit and speed, he took away with his mind farts, stupid penalties and stone hands.

 

[BiggE]

Hoping the Bruins lose tonight. The anguish in Milbury’s voice is like manna from heaven.

 

[flyerslducks]

honeslty, I cannot fathom how and why ghost-braun never worked. It sucks. On paper it makes sense. Ghost is the rover, aggressive D man who can carry the puck & add offense in a flash. Braun is the steady defensive stay-at-home type. They should hide each other’s weaknesses but they end up amplifying them. Someone is up with those two.

Such a shame.

 

[Adtar02]

honeslty, I cannot fathom how and why ghost-braun never worked. It sucks. On paper it makes sense. Ghost is the rover, aggressive D man who can carry the puck & add offense in a flash. Braun is the steady defensive stay-at-home type. They should hide each other’s weaknesses but they end up amplifying them. Someone is up with those two.

Such a shame.

well because ghost ends up staying more at home while braun rovers all over the ice

 

[Striiker]

i get that you dont like the staff but what coaches do you prefer we should get that would satisfy you?

Chip Kelly.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Chip Kelly.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

My one memory of Chip Kelly is my mom always calling him "Chimp"

Good times