Speculation: Eastern Conference is a Beast-Should we be sellers

[riffle]

If we could get more than the price of a lemonade from the little girl at the end of the block's stand, I'd sell Mrazek, Dermott, Muzzin or Holl, Clifford, Simmonds and Spezza (who would retire).

To me, this team needs a major shakeup. It hasn't had one of those, in-season, in years. Although, it would be panned by his legion of supporters citing his great contract, talent, etc... I'd move 88. I understand every reply I'd get as to why not to do such a thing but the message has to be sent that talent, alone, doesn't win you anything. Sending him off, as talented as he is, would set the tone for a critical year in the Dubas era. Hard for me to believe that deep down he trusts this core like he states he does publicly.

 

[therealkoho]

Looking at the trades that Florida, Boston and TB just made without us throwing the kitchen sink, the living room and the dining room into the pot I don’t think we have much of a chance.

Personally I would rather us trade some expiring contracts and load up for next year because IMO we are gonna get smoked. We could trade:

Lyubushkin
Holl
Dermott
Mikheyev
Mrazek-although I don’t think anybody I’ll be interested

There is talk the NYR would be willing to trade LaFrenier, Nylander would come to mind. Would could grab some prospects and free up cap space to drastically alter our team. I know this is super unpopular opinion but I just don’t think we have the personnel to win the SC.

Thought?

Dreger is currently floating a rumour that the Leafs/ Hawks had a deal for Hagel + Fleury for Knies and as he put it "multiple 1sts" Dreger really needs to dry up and blow away like bull feces on the bottom of my boot. I'm not Dubas biggest fan but not even he would have done something so patently stupid such as this overpay.

I was kind of hoping for a pretty big deal(like blockbuster big)with the Rags that included Lafrenier among other things coming this way. The way I saw it was if the Leafs happen to bow out in the 1st round, then whomever gets the GM spot make the call, I wouldn't trust Dubas to get it done correctly.

In answer to the question, no don't buy and don't sell unless somebody is offering a 1st for a bag of pucks and Spezzas autograph

 

[2 Slick]

Toronto isn’t going to sell, but I also don’t want them to be buyers. There are a few exceptions of course, if they can manage to get rid of someone like Justin Holl, Travis Dermott, Petr Mrazek, Wayne Simmonds or Kyle Clifford, then I wouldn’t mind.

Toronto’s goaltending since December 1st has been among the worst in the entire NHL. I’m a huge Jack Campbell fan, but he’s not going to take them to the promise land. I mean, he gives up nearly 4 goals every single game he’s in, whether it’s his fault or not, that’s what he’s been doing for 3 1/2 months now.

Petr Mrazek has just been horrific the entire season, not just recently, his first few games were just as bad as his last two games. I honestly can’t find one redeeming thing or quality to say about Petr Mrazek, that’s how trash he is.

Our rookie goaltender as much as I like his positioning and his calmness, he’s not going to take them to the fourth round.

Then you have a captain who is playing piss poor hockey for the second half of the season, isn’t doing his job as a captain to rally the troops and get things going. The entire second line has been dismal since the start of 2022.

What Sheldon Keefe needs to do is to split Tavares from Nyander, As they have absolutely no chemistry together.

Acquiring a player at the deadline that Isn’t a UFA and it’s just a good hockey trade, then I wouldn’t mind it as much. Toronto shouldn’t be looking for any rentals of any kind, they have too many holes to fill and not enough cap space to make that happen. So there’s no point in wasting assets when is not going to change anything or move the needle that much.

Stand pat.

 

[All Mod Cons]

They've been throwing around 1st round picks like candy for years. No point stopping now.

 

[Lauro]

Just don't trade away top prospects/picks.

 

[BackPassChampions]

OP, you’re thinking from a fans perspective here. Let’s flip it.

Imagine you’re Dubas and Shanahan;

Leafs haven’t been past the first round.

Fans are big mad, rightfully so, but hanging on to the last bit of patience we still somehow have left.

MLSE is watching this team fail year over year.

This definitely feels like Dubas’ last year if he fails, and if it’s not the year, the clock has began ticking.

Last year was a perfect opportunity and we lost a 3-1 lead.

Top team in the current standings, and Matthews is having a career year with a soon to be expiring contract.

With that perspective, do you really believe Dubas and Shanahan are coming up with a master plan to sell and skip this year?

SMH.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I would love for them to get a 2nd for Holl. Insert Lilly FT into the lineup. That’s about it.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Reminds me of the OHL when the Knights were deadline sellers in a year they finished 3rd in the league lol.

Could probably have received 5+ firsts for Bunting, Kerfoot @50% and Kampf, which does make one pause for a sec.

 

[Morgs]

Best Leaf team in 20 years - so what? If the goaltending bounces back the team should be competitive in the playoffs but if it doesn't, we're toast. That's a pretty massive if though and while it could happen, at this point it would be naive to think it's likely to happen. Does that about cover it?

You say we have no holes besides goaltending. Even if we say that's true - so what? Without goaltending, we have no shot at the cup, period.

Also this idea that this team is elite, has no holes besides goaltending and so on is hyperbole and is completely ignoring the fact that in the last 3 game 7's, we scored a total of 2 goals. We've had pretty good fancy stats ever since Keefe took over but in the playoffs, those numbers don't mean a damn thing. This core has a history of choking, simple as that. Doesn't mean they'll choke again this year but it's cause for concern. And there's nothing whatsoever "condescending" about any of this so not sure why you're using that word, it's just the way it is. But again, if you want to call this team elite, you go right ahead, agree to disagree and that's about it.

This team has shown us the same movie for a number of years now. Finish 5-7th in the regular season and 9-16th in the playoffs, depending on how you rank the 1st round losers. Except of course for the year we lost in the playin's to CLB but whatever, we'll just ignore that. Elite is a subjective term so if that to you is elite, what can I say, be happy I guess. It's not elite to me though, not even close.

Okay, so what? Sell the f***ing team because Marner and Matthews haven't shown up in the playoffs for the last two years? Makes no sense.

You look at every other team in the league and they have holes besides the Flames. Some like the Panthers choose to outscore their problems, and some like the Bruins choose to win games 1-0. Goalies are such insane voodoo that you can have a Grubauer situation or a Markstrom situation. It sucks when they're bad, but they're 10 minutes away from being their normal selves again. Especially being a team that's in 5th (maybe 6th now?) DESPITE the goaltending issues. Our team is great defensively (besides last night), and the issue has been our goalies letting in really bad goals. I'm not overly worried Jack won't re-find his game.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This is dumb.

Some of you forget what it was like to have an actually bad team and evidently would like to go back to those days.

If being better than we once were when we were absolutely terrible and making the playoffs is enough to make you happy than that's great, enjoy!

Some of us want more, some of us want to have some success in the playoffs and if you don't understand why we feel that way then I'm not sure I can explain it to you. It's hard to explain what the thrill of a cup run feels like, I think you just have to experience it yourself before you can understand. All I can say is that winning games in the regular season doesn't compare to it at all. Hopefully we will get to experience playoff success again in the not too distant future and then you will know what we're talking about.

some of these idiots dont remember the 80s

Some of these young kids don't remember what it's like to win in the playoffs. It seems like they're happy with a team that never wins in the playoffs because "this is the best team we've had in 20 years". Some of them even think the team deserves to be called "elite".

Don't sell, don't buy.

Ride this team to the playoffs and save the farm.

If they win, they win. If they lose, make trades in the off-season.

We have the toughest division in hockey, it's the unfortunate situation that when we're good, the entire Atlantic seems to be cup favourites and the format is adjusted so you basically have to play an Atlantic team.

Bad goaltending might put us in WC1/2, where we can hopefully avoid the Atlantic until the ECF.

Yup.

Acquiring a player at the deadline that Isn’t a UFA and it’s just a good hockey trade, then I wouldn’t mind it as much. Toronto shouldn’t be looking for any rentals of any kind, they have too many holes to fill and not enough cap space to make that happen. So there’s no point in wasting assets when is not going to change anything or move the needle that much.

Stand pat.

Absolutely! I was hoping we'd pull off something like what Boston did. Who knows, maybe we still will and if they decide that Chychrun will make us better, I don't mind paying futures for that. Hell I wish we would have been the ones who paid what Boston did and now has Lindholm for years to come without overpaying on cap hit. Rentals though, if they're relatively cheap then fine but if it involves giving up top prospects or 1st rounders then fuggetaboutit, we need to solve our goaltending problems before it makes sense to go all in.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Okay, so what? Sell the f***ing team because Marner and Matthews haven't shown up in the playoffs for the last two years? Makes no sense.

You look at every other team in the league and they have holes besides the Flames. Some like the Panthers choose to outscore their problems, and some like the Bruins choose to win games 1-0. Goalies are such insane voodoo that you can have a Grubauer situation or a Markstrom situation. It sucks when they're bad, but they're 10 minutes away from being their normal selves again. Especially being a team that's in 5th (maybe 6th now?) DESPITE the goaltending issues. Our team is great defensively (besides last night), and the issue has been our goalies letting in really bad goals. I'm not overly worried Jack won't re-find his game.

I'm not saying sell, I'm saying stand pat or at least don't give up top prospects for rentals. If we can get a guy that will make us better long term like Chychrun or like Boston did with Lindholm then that's another story but no expensive rentals for me.

And FYI, we're now tied for 7th and don't look now but Boston is only 2 points behind us in 9th.

 

[CincoHolio]

Mommy, I'm scared.

 

[GoonieFace]

The definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again. Just wondering when people will stop equating regular season success with being a cup contender. As constructed, this team is not good enough. But stranger things have happened

 

[Dekes For Days]

I said worst d and goaltending going into the playoffs. Even if the D is a stretch you can definitely make a case they have the worst goaltending of the east playoff teams heading into the playoffs.

D is more than just a stretch, considering we have the 3rd best defensive results in the conference. As for goaltending, while it's been concerning for a couple months, that doesn't really mean much. We have two goalies that are capable of doing well (one was literally a Vezina candidate a few months ago), and not only do we have 20 games left before the playoffs, but we should all be very aware that goaltending can flip on a dime. Especially if Campbell's play was caused by his rib injury. You also attempted to blame Dubas for this, even though he's done more to improve our goaltending and especially defense (which was horrible before he came) in a few years than any Leaf GM in modern history.

 

[Racer88]

I certainly don’t think they should be sellers but I do think they should stand pat. They are what they are and no amount of tinkering at the deadline that will make any difference

 

[The Podium]

Anyone who agrees here is a loser.

 

[DarkKnight]

They've been throwing around 1st round picks like candy for years. No point stopping now.

I love how we criticize Florida for doing what we’ve already done.

As for being sellers, come the eff on.

 

[Morgs]

I'm not saying sell, I'm saying stand pat or at least don't give up top prospects for rentals. If we can get a guy that will make us better long term like Chychrun or like Boston did with Lindholm then that's another story but no expensive rentals for me.

And FYI, we're now tied for 7th and don't look now but Boston is only 2 points behind us in 9th.

Facing any team in the Met would he better than Florida or Tampa, and we wouldn't have to think about them or Boston until the conference finals, tbh.

Oh and also:

The sky isn't falling, and people need to stop pretending it is because nothing matters until playoffs.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Facing any team in the Met would he better than Florida or Tampa, and we wouldn't have to think about them or Boston until the conference finals, tbh.

Oh and also:

The sky isn't falling, and people need to stop pretending it is because nothing matters until playoffs.

This "analysis" comparing us to TB is a bit simplistic to say the least. But regardless of that, I have no idea why you're quoting me as I've never said the sky was falling.

 

[IrishInOntario]

No to selling. That sends a terrible message to the team and spells the end of Kyle Dubas.

That said, three things are very important to me.

1). The goaltending absolutely must get fixed (no matter what the cost). If that's at the deadline, so be it. If it has to wait until the off season to get the right guy, so be it. We can't go into 2022-2023, hoping (again) that Jack Campbell will carry the load for the entire season, for the first time in his career, in his 30's.

2). Any rentals must be added for cheap. If the guy is only going to be here for the playoffs this year, I'm being incredibly stingy about what I'm willing to pay if I'm Dubas. Giving our existing cap space, I don't see a rental on the market that would make us better than the other teams in our division, so don't buy someone simply to do it, and waste assets like you did in the dreadful Nick Foligno trade that Dubas made last year, which I bitched about from the weeks leading up to the trade, until the off season. Terrible, terrible trade, for a washed up player.

3). Any trades that involve premium assets moving forward, should be made with the idea that you want to keep that guy in the fold moving forward, as a core asset. What Boston did with both Hall and Lindholm was brilliant. They targeted players that they knew they could extend and, therefore, they were comfortable moving premium assets because they knew they'd get extended value from the acquired players, in return.

As long as any moves are made with the above in mind, I'm reasonably happy. I don't think we have a contender, but I do think we're a solid (but flawed) team that has the chance to get better over the next 18 months.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Anyone who agrees here is a loser.

Yes, for 54 yrs we buried our heads, why not one more, eh

 

[IrishInOntario]

Facing any team in the Met would he better than Florida or Tampa, and we wouldn't have to think about them or Boston until the conference finals, tbh.

Oh and also:

The sky isn't falling, and people need to stop pretending it is because nothing matters until playoffs.

The sky isn't falling, but you also have to consider who we've been losing to lately and how emphatically we've had the shit kicked out of us in a couple of those games.

In the last 15 games we're 7-8 (two overtime loses)... Those losses are as follows.

St. Louis: 6-3
Montreal: 5-2
Columbus: 4-3 (OT loss)
Buffalo: 5-1
Vancouver: 6-4
Arizona: 5-4 (OT)
Buffalo: 5-2
Nashville: 6-3

Let's call a spade, a spade. We've beaten a couple good teams of late (Washington, Dallas and Carolina) but over our last 15 games, we have a losing record, and we've been beat soundly by some of the league's biggest bottom feeders.

 

[Dekes For Days]

In the last 15 games we're 7-8

We're actually 7-6-2 through that stretch where we've gotten horrific 0.875 goaltending. That really just shows how good our team is.

 

[egd27]

Personally I would rather us trade some expiring contracts and load up for next year because IMO we are gonna get smoked. We could trade:

Lyubushkin
Holl
Dermott
Mikheyev
Mrazek-although I don’t think anybody I’ll be interested

Aside from Lyubushkin, I would be fine with "selling" any of these guys tomorrow provided we can get at least one NHL calibre defenseman coming back. I doubt any of them are going to "tip the scales" in the playoffs.

Really not much of a "sale" is it?

 

[TopCheese]

As hard as i try to believe we have a chance, cant see any way we get by Tampa or Florida in round 1. Not that the team is bad, but having to face a top 5 team in the league with no weaknesses is not the way to break the round 1 slump. Stand pat with what we have, evaluate and come back stronger next year. The defence has to be revamped. If Muzzin can't return to form we only have two- top 4 dmen.