Confirmed with Link: Eakins Fired; MacT Transitional HC; Nelson Interim HC | Eakins Presser @ 10:00AM (II)

[Consultant]

Nice to hear Nelson is working on upping the pace of practice.
So many damming things heard while Eakins was here, one that stood out for me was his low pace practices. I really think having Eakins out is going to show returns soon. After his firing everyone soon forgets what an ass that guy was. Forget about the big trades etc., lets try an actual coach for a bit. Watch this team start improving, tonight is a tough match up but in 10 games from now, I think we will be a different team.

 

[Replacement*]

I've never been particularly thrilled with Nelsons (lack of) development of our prospects in OKC, but if there's one thing he's had success with, it's getting so-so rosters to perform and compete. He also seems to have a wildly different approach to speaking with the media than Dallas Eakins does. Eakins has always felt slightly antagonistic, even at the best of times. Based on a few of the interactions he's had with some of the players, wouldn't be surprised if that was the same case in the dressing room. Nelson seems 100% the polar opposite. Always seems to have time for anyone and everyone. I can't help but feel like his approach is going to be wildly different. Not necessarily in how the systems are run (we'll see, I have no idea), but in how he responds to the players.

That doesn't mean much necessarily, but I'm interested in seeing how the team responds under him once MacT ****s off back to the pressbox. I'd like nothing more than for him to succeed.

Nelson hasn't been my guy, I'll make no bones about that and I wasn't always too keen on his player use either. It seemed to me his focus was always more on the OKC team and what was good for that team rather than what is good for the parent team. i.e. giving guys commensurate minutes and opportunity down on the farm if they're on the cusp or sent down.

That said it could be a bias of mine that I wanted him to put the Oilers first.

Nelson isn't my cup of tea, but I've come to recognize that theres a big difference between management/coaching I would prefer vs what a typical hockey player would prefer.

In the latter I could see Nelson really being a "one of the guys" type coach that hockey players would really feel comfortable with.

lol just on the side but my wifes 1st and 2nd comments on Nelson were "he's a drinker"... She figures he's a real barfly. I said hey, the guys been on a plane all day give him a break. I actually prefer that it looks like he doesn't comb his hair..

 

[Roof Daddy]

Nelson hasn't been my guy, I'll make no bones about that and I wasn't always too keen on his player use either. It seemed to me his focus was always more on the OKC team and what was good for that team rather than what is good for the parent team. i.e. giving guys commensurate minutes and opportunity down on the farm if they're on the cusp or sent down.

That said it could be a bias of mine that I wanted him to put the Oilers first.
D

I've heard Stauffer make a similar argument, and while I agree the main objective of the farm team should be developing future Oilers, what message does it send if you "gift" certain players extra minutes that haven't earned it. I think being an AHL coach is a tougher gig than people give credit (not necessarily directed at your comment, just a point). You can't run a roster comprised entirely of 19-22 yr olds or you'll get crushed. You can't bring in good AHL veterans (some of which bust their ass night in, night out, knowing they'll never get a call to the bigs) and expect them to be OK with you cutting their minutes because Mitch Moroz needs to add another -2 to his stat line. You need to build a winning environment down there and it's impossible to do without bringing in good veterans. Good vets aren't going to play for an AHL team that doesn't have a chance to win (which is what a team that gives too many minutes to undeserving players becomes).

We're dealing with self-entitlement issues with our "core" on the big club. Placing too much emphasis on playing young guys in the AHL that haven't earned their opportunities just creates a similar problem. Good players will earn their opportunities. If playing time is the issue, a week or two in the ECHL provides that.

 

[SPIRIT]

I've heard Stauffer make a similar argument, and while I agree the main objective of the farm team should be developing future Oilers, what message does it send if you "gift" certain players extra minutes that haven't earned it. I think being an AHL coach is a tougher gig than people give credit (not necessarily directed at your comment, just a point). You can't run a roster comprised entirely of 19-22 yr olds or you'll get crushed. You can't bring in good AHL veterans (some of which bust their ass night in, night out, knowing they'll never get a call to the bigs) and expect them to be OK with you cutting their minutes because Mitch Moroz needs to add another -2 to his stat line. You need to build a winning environment down there and it's impossible to do without bringing in good veterans. Good vets aren't going to play for an AHL team that doesn't have a chance to win (which is what a team that gives too many minutes to undeserving players becomes).

We're dealing with self-entitlement issues with our "core" on the big club. Placing too much emphasis on playing young guys in the AHL that haven't earned their opportunities just creates a similar problem. Good players will earn their opportunities. If playing time is the issue, a week or two in the ECHL provides that.

True.

It's a circular argument. On one hand you can snipe at how he's playing to win over-developing younger players.

On the other, you can say that our scouting, etc, should have identified young players who will come in and be the right players to make you win games.

There's also the matter of positive cultural development, which the Oilers fly in the face of. If you're losing all the time, your players aren't going to get better.

 

[Bangers]

I've heard Stauffer make a similar argument, and while I agree the main objective of the farm team should be developing future Oilers, what message does it send if you "gift" certain players extra minutes that haven't earned it. I think being an AHL coach is a tougher gig than people give credit (not necessarily directed at your comment, just a point). You can't run a roster comprised entirely of 19-22 yr olds or you'll get crushed. You can't bring in good AHL veterans (some of which bust their ass night in, night out, knowing they'll never get a call to the bigs) and expect them to be OK with you cutting their minutes because Mitch Moroz needs to add another -2 to his stat line. You need to build a winning environment down there and it's impossible to do without bringing in good veterans. Good vets aren't going to play for an AHL team that doesn't have a chance to win (which is what a team that gives too many minutes to undeserving players becomes).

We're dealing with self-entitlement issues with our "core" on the big club. Placing too much emphasis on playing young guys in the AHL that haven't earned their opportunities just creates a similar problem. Good players will earn their opportunities. If playing time is the issue, a week or two in the ECHL provides that.

This is why I disagreed with CrapT's assertion when he was hired that the prospects should be force-fed more time in the minors.

The team should consist of a mix of AHL veterans (hard-working team players) to mentor the prospects, and prospects. Make the prospects earn top 6 time; if they are ready, let them take the reins. If not, play them in situations where they won't get abused.

Force-feeding minutes to players who aren't ready is a recipe for disaster at any level.

 

[sepHF]

Maybe the players we have given Nelson just simply aren't good enough. Our scouting is awful.

Can you guys think of any specific players who's development was hurt by Nelson?

Guys like Pitlick and Hamilton need to show some semblance of offense before being handed the keys to the team.

The only beef I have had with him is the weird lineup rotation they use where they sit players on a game by game basis regardless of how they're playing.

That seems incredibly stupid... but who knows the reasoning behind that.

 

[Oi'll say!]

So you seem to suggest that the team is just one good coach away from being at least respectable.

I disagree.

We'll see who is right.

I didn't say exactly that, I said they were getting better before Eakins got there. Now it's almost a completely different team.

I would go so far as to say that Eakins made almost every single player on the team worse, and that it's impossible to say whether or not he has permanently stunted any of the players' development.

I would go so far as to say that he has damaged the trade value of a lot of players by quite a bit.

I think that the damage that he did was mitigated by the fact that he got us LD, but then LD was thrown into the Eakins maelstrom, and is probably well on his way to becoming a failed prospect.

I don't believe we are 1 good coach away from having a good team, I think it's blatantly obvious that MacT is the main guy in the Edm org that needs to go. But Eakins was a terrible coach.

 

[Rafters]

I think the Core players might just realize that the team can only fire so many coaches before the bromance gets broken up.......could explain the increased effort the past 2 games....or the fact that the big boss is standing behind them looking over their shoulders

 

[dobiezeke*]

I didn't say exactly that, I said they were getting better before Eakins got there. Now it's almost a completely different team.

I would go so far as to say that Eakins made almost every single player on the team worse, and that it's impossible to say whether or not he has permanently stunted any of the players' development.

I would go so far as to say that he has damaged the trade value of a lot of players by quite a bit.

Is think that the damage that he did was mitigated by the fact that he got us LD, but then LD was thrown into the Eakins maelstrom, and is probably well on his way to becoming a failed propect.

I don't believe we are 1 good coach away from having a good team, I think it's blatantly obvious that MacT is the main guy in the Edm org that needs to go. But Eakins was a terrible coach.

So your argument is that the Oilers have tainted every draft pick and thus deemed them failed, including LD.

Last time I checked the first pick by Boston that they deemed expendable is doing quite well in Dallas.

Give the new coach a chance to work with the team and see how he can work with our first round draft picks.

 

[guymez]

Nice to hear Nelson is working on upping the pace of practice.
So many damming things heard while Eakins was here, one that stood out for me was his low pace practices. I really think having Eakins out is going to show returns soon. After his firing everyone soon forgets what an ass that guy was. Forget about the big trades etc., lets try an actual coach for a bit. Watch this team start improving, tonight is a tough match up but in 10 games from now, I think we will be a different team.

I agree. Reports of these whiteboard practices were becoming more and more frequent. Coupled with comments from ex players about the lack of pace in the Oilers practices and the poor game results its pretty easy to conclude that the team was not being properly prepared for the high tempo of a game.

Something else I have noticed with the team in 5 of the 6 periods under Nelson. While I am not nearly convinced that Nelson is the man for this job it is becoming clear that Eakins came with an awful lot of emotional baggage which was imparted on to the team. I have no tangible reason to support this except to say that some of the players are starting to look 'liberated' and more purposeful in their play. This team has a different 'feel' to them already and its only been 2 games. The high level of effort in the San Jose game was actually quite refreshing.

Teams do tend to take on the personality of the coach and this heavy emotional baggage that Eakins seemed to carry around with him had to have impacted the team.

Nelsons work will obviously be more evident as time moves forward but the absence of Eakins and his heavy dense emotional aura may be enough to help this team start to enjoy the game again and find itself.

Then again that may be nothing more than misplaced optimism.

 

[AJGass4]

The bench had very little emotion on it, other than Faisth blowing a casket and Eakins looked like he was meditating.

 

[Beerfish]

Minor league teams are for developuing young players and yes they are there to play alot, make mistakes and learn. Playing some 30 yera old vet ahler instead of a young guy will get you more wins and less development. You don't gift time if a player is dogging it but you sure do if he is trying and just making mistakes.

The whole accountability = ice time is a fine theory once you reach the nhl but it only works if it is handed out the same for everyone and if every player is treated the same. This almost never happens and certainly does not with the oilers.

 

[missinthejets]

Minor league teams are for developuing young players and yes they are there to play alot, make mistakes and learn. Playing some 30 yera old vet ahler instead of a young guy will get you more wins and less development. You don't gift time if a player is dogging it but you sure do if he is trying and just making mistakes.

The whole accountability = ice time is a fine theory once you reach the nhl but it only works if it is handed out the same for everyone and if every player is treated the same. This almost never happens and certainly does not with the oilers.

The other side to that argument is that if you hold players accountable in the minors they are already accountable by the time they get to the NHL. If you just gift them time in the minors you could just be enabling bad habits.

 

[tempest2i]

The Oilers may be, as hard as it is to believe, worse without Eakins.

 

[guymez]

The Oilers may be, as hard as it is to believe, worse without Eakins.

Its just momentum generated from a downward spiral.

I am not about to go to bat for Eakins but anybody that thought that coaching was the main issue with this team was in a serious case of denial.

 

[Soundwave]

Its just momentum generated from a downward spiral.

I am not about to go to bat for Eakins but anybody that thought that coaching was the main issue with this team was in a serious case of denial.

Player development is a huge issue, Eakins was part of that problem. Unfortunately it's too late now I think. They have ruined at least a couple of their kids.

 

[guymez]

Player development is a huge issue, Eakins was part of that problem. Unfortunately it's too late now I think. They have ruined at least a couple of their kids.

It runs much deeper than that.

This team hasnt been good enough in multiple areas for 6 years now.

I said 3 years ago that this team was broken and Katz was the main culprit.

Nothing has changed and there is no light at the end of this tunnel.

 

[Raab]

Its just momentum generated from a downward spiral.

I am not about to go to bat for Eakins but anybody that thought that coaching was the main issue with this team was in a serious case of denial.

This, Eakins was hardly the problem here. The problem is the same as it's been for 3 years, the personnel. You can group management in with that because they're the people who bring these guys in and flush them.

 

[Soundwave]

This, Eakins was hardly the problem here. The problem is the same as it's been for 3 years, the personnel. You can group management in with that because they're the people who bring these guys in and flush them.

Eakins destroyed any development (though slow moving) we made under Renney/Krueger.

What you're seeing now is just the natural end result of that.

It will take years to recover now. The damage has been done.

Just because you remove the knife that was stuck in your back doesn't mean you're magically going to be doing backflips afterwards, the bleeding is going to continue, critical organs have been damaged.

Besides it's not like this joke of a coaching staff, with a third straight rookie AHL coach who looks like a deer caught in the headlights trying to "lead" while Mac Dummy stands over him on the bench was ever destined for anything better.

 

[guymez]

This, Eakins was hardly the problem here. The problem is the same as it's been for 3 years, the personnel. You can group management in with that because they're the people who bring these guys in and flush them.

Absolutely.

Eakins tried to get this soft team and these soft players to play out of their comfort zone. Playing with grit and courage is not something this team is capable of. Now we have some confused players but thats not the issue here at all...its just highlighted the issue.

The issue once again is that this team has no balance. 70% to 80% of this team has no clue how to play with courage and grit because it just isnt in their game. Eakins tried very hard to change that and he failed. If Nelson or any other coach tries that with this roster they will fail too. The reason is that you cant make a player into something he isnt. The soft perimeter game may have been more successful in past years but the West has gotten much bigger and grittier over the past 2 years.

This roster has to be turned over again...how many times will that be now?

Seriously...I have lost count.

 

[Raab]

Eakins destroyed any development (though slow moving) we made under Renney/Krueger.

What you're seeing now is just the natural end result of that.

It will take years to recover now. The damage has been done.

Just because you remove the knife that was stuck in your back doesn't mean you're magically going to be doing backflips afterwards, the bleeding is going to continue, critical organs have been damaged.

Besides it's not like this joke of a coaching staff, with a third straight rookie AHL coach who looks like a deer caught in the headlights trying to "lead" while Mac Dummy stands over him on the bench was ever destined for anything better.

If you can't see that Eakins took orders from MacT then I dunno what to tell you. And I dont see how he ruined these players development. If anything he tried to get them playing the game the way they'll need to if they want to succeed. Do you honestly believe he was the reason Marincin was sent down while Hunt was kept up? Or that he felt that playing J.Schultz for 25 minutes a night was a good idea? Seeing how these things are still happening I am forced to believe that Eakins wasn't the one making the calls on those issues.

 

[Soundwave]

Absolutely.

Eakins tried to get this soft team and these soft players to play out of their comfort zone. Playing with grit and courage is not something this team is capable of. Now we have some confused players but thats not the issue here at all...its just highlighted the issue.

The issue once again is that this team has no balance. 70% to 80% of this team has no clue how to play with courage and grit because it just isnt in their game. Eakins tried very hard to change that and he failed. If Nelson or any other coach tries that with this roster they will fail too. The reason is that you cant make a player into something he isnt. The soft perimeter game may have been more successful in past years but the West has gotten much bigger and grittier over the past 2 years.

This roster has to be turned over again...how many times will that be now?

Seriously...I have lost count.

He tried to get them to play a fancy schmacy, high concept, "puck possession" style of play that was way over the heads of the group and personel and spent hours in front of a chalk board.

When his "system" didn't work, he panicked and didn't have the answers because he had even less experience in the NHL then the kids did.

It just spiralled into the toilet from there.

Our goals against was going down every year of the "Hall era" rebuild by a healthy amount until Eakins got here and it went dramatically the opposite direction.

We improved nicely under Renney from year 1 to 2 (12 point improvement) and were on pace to improve again under Krueger (who I still think was a bad coach, just not as bad as Eakins) pro-rated.

Again under Eakins our win totals go south. Our powerplay, top 10 in the league under Krueger, driven straight into the gutter by Eakins.

Absolving him of responsibility is just laughable. It's not his fault he was hired though, that's all Mac Dummy/Lowe.

 

[guymez]

He tried to get them to play a fancy schmacy, high concept, "puck possession" style of play that was way over the heads of the group and personel.

When it didn't work, he panicked and didn't have the answers because he had even less experience in the NHL then the kids did.

It just spiralled into the toilet from there.

Our goals against was going down every year of the "Hall era" rebuild by a healthy amount until Eakins got here and it went dramatically the opposite direction.

We improved nicely under Renney from year 1 to 2 (12 point improvement) and were on pace to improve again under Krueger (who I still think was a bad coach, just not as bad as Eakins) pro-rated.

Again under Eakins our win totals go south.

Not sure what you were watching at all. Eakins clearly tried to get perimeter players to go to the greasy areas and he failed. He failed because the majority of this roster is happy playing a perimeter game.

How can you dispute that?

Perron is the only legit top 9 player that consistently plays a courageous game. Fayne (and possibly Ferrence) is the only defender that does the same.

 

[Soundwave]

Not sure what you were watching at all. Eakins clearly tried to get perimeter players to go to the greasy areas and he failed. He failed because the majority of this roster is happy playing a perimeter game.

How can you dispute that?

Perron is the only legit top 9 player that plays a courageous game. Fayne (and possibly Ferrence) is the only defender that does the same.

What am I missing here?

Did our powerplay not go south under Eakins?

Did our goals against not balloon under Eakins to 1980s levels when it was going down each of the previous three seasons?

Look at Dubnyk's numbers the year before Eakins, with Eakins, and now in Phoenix this year.

The players tuned him out subconsciously a long time ago because he didn't know what the hell he was doing. He was trying desperately to learn on the job, and you can't do that in the NHL.

Perron looks like a ***** to me right now too.

I miss the Renney era. At least we would blow out the Blackhawks now and again and the kids themselves were playing fairly well. Under Eakins it was just pure unmitigated 2 years of ****. He and Mac T (and Lowe by extension) completely destroyed this rebuild.

 

[guymez]

Did our powerplay not go south under Eakins?

Who was providing the net presence once Smyth retired? Who was providing the point shot that demanded respect from the opposition?

The answer to both those questions is no one.

Show me a PP that has success without those 2 elements.

Did our goals against not balloon under Eakins to 1980s levels when it was going down each of the previous three seasons?

Look at Dubnyk's numbers the year before Eakins, with Eakins, and now in Phoenix this year.

Was Eakins responsible for Justin Schultz and his deplorable defensive zone coverage? Was Eakins responsible for the putrid goaltending. Was Eakins responsible for the lack of quality defenders on the roster...or the lack of grit....or the lack of physicality around their own net?

No he wasnt.

The players tuned him out subconsciously a long time ago because he didn't know what the hell he was doing. He was trying desperately to learn on the job, and you can't do that in the NHL.

Perron looks like a ***** to me right now too.

I miss the Renney era. At least we would blow out the Blackhawks now and again and the kids themselves were playing fairly well. Under Eakins it was just pure unmitigated 2 years of ****. He and Mac T (and Lowe by extension) completely destroyed this rebuild.

This rebuild was destroyed before Eakins got here. You are implying that this roster was a tweak or 2 away from success.

Its great that you have made excuses for these professional players but after multiple coaches the finger has to point at the roster.

Thats exactly where it should point because this is a weak, soft team that will not be coached into being a successful team with out changes.

History has proven that beyond a doubt.