Player Discussion Dylan McIlrath - Part VII

[wolfgaze]

Remember that scene in the 2nd Bad News Bears movie where the fans in the stadium begin chanting "Let Them Play... Let them Play!"....

Observing McIlrath's situation I feel like we're going to need a slight modification of that chant with a "Let Him Play!" at the Garden in order to see him inserted into the line-up, lol...

 

[Ori]

hehe, I understand though - I hope Dylan Mc. played instead of Holden to be honest.

 

[silverfish]

I dont think the front office will label it a "transition" season until they know they're missing the playoffs...

Ironically, Girardi in actually helps the cause of not being in the playoffs.

I'm not able to wrap my head around this conundrum

Missing the playoffs =/= transition year.

Transition year == growing the team.

IMO.

 

[Badko]

I'd like to see Dylan get about 15 to 20 games straight. Then make a decision. Having to think about sitting in the press box can mess with a kid's head. Give him a legitimate shot and I think we'll all be fine with whatever decision AV makes.

 

[True Blue]

McIlrath has had a problem defending 1-on-1 against speedy, skilled forwards from the start, and he's still having this problem. This is not acceptable. A defensive defenseman has nobody to cover for him, he's the last line of defense before the goalie.

For all of his issues and poor camp performance, he still performed materially better than Girardi and certainly better than Skej, Holden was fine, but certainly did not play THAT much better than McIlrath. Again, this is about misuse of assets. And not willing to see the forest through the trees. Give the kid a shot. He is here. He has some experience. The team needs to know what it has once and for all.

 

[Inferno]

McIlrath has had a problem defending 1-on-1 against speedy, skilled forwards from the start, and he's still having this problem. This is not acceptable. A defensive defenseman has nobody to cover for him, he's the last line of defense before the goalie.

Dylan needs to practice 1-on-1 against forwards a lot. Not just in practice, but on his own time. Get a rookie like Buchnevich who could use half an hour of extra practice time since he's new to North America, and stay on the ice for 30 minutes after practice doing 1-on-1 drills. It would work wonders for McIlrath.

i definitely agree with this...in the respect that, if you simply look at McIlraths play alone without any context of alternatives, that it is a big time flaw in his game (as is his balance)

however, you dont need to just look at Dylan..you need to look at who he is fighting for to get playing time.

i think the reason Dylan can get roasted in one on one matchups is because he keeps a relatively close gap...he tries to step up and stop the play right away, if the guy is fast enough to get around him, hes going to get around him.

look at how dan girardi plays the same play...his gap is...well, its usually a half a zone if not a full zone larger....for example, if a guy is heading up the ice with a head of steam at his own blueline, Dylan McIlrath will probably be at the red line trying to force the player to the boards for a big hit....Dan Girardi will be at his own blue line skating backwards with literally 1 full zones worth of space for the guy to skate in and make a play..by the time the guy is in the offensive zone DG will be at the tops or the middle of the circle and the guy can come in and get a free shot on goal. DG's game is predicated on him blocking the shot...DMs game is predicated on him taking the player out of the rush to prevent the shot from happening at all.

if DG misses his blocked shot, its a SOG...if DM misses his chance to take the player out, its an odd man rush against.

the difference being DM can and has taken the player out of the play early to stem the offensive threats frequently..when he gets roasted every once in a while, thats all anyone remembers.

i think its all about gap control...DMs is probably a bit too small, and DGs is cavernously large. Id rather DM play, and learn to gauge NHL gap control, than DG continue to try to be an extra goalie out there since he knows he has zero ability to stop the rush otherwise.

 

[Apocalypse Dude]

I'd like to see Dylan get about 15 to 20 games straight. Then make a decision. Having to think about sitting in the press box can mess with a kid's head. Give him a legitimate shot and I think we'll all be fine with whatever decision AV makes.

This. If he really sucks who cares? His trade value can't be that high anyway.

 

[offdacrossbar]

i definitely agree with this...in the respect that, if you simply look at McIlraths play alone without any context of alternatives, that it is a big time flaw in his game (as is his balance)

however, you dont need to just look at Dylan..you need to look at who he is fighting for to get playing time.

i think the reason Dylan can get roasted in one on one matchups is because he keeps a relatively close gap...he tries to step up and stop the play right away, if the guy is fast enough to get around him, hes going to get around him.

look at how dan girardi plays the same play...his gap is...well, its usually a half a zone if not a full zone larger....for example, if a guy is heading up the ice with a head of steam at his own blueline, Dylan McIlrath will probably be at the red line trying to force the player to the boards for a big hit....Dan Girardi will be at his own blue line skating backwards with literally 1 full zones worth of space for the guy to skate in and make a play..by the time the guy is in the offensive zone DG will be at the tops or the middle of the circle and the guy can come in and get a free shot on goal. DG's game is predicated on him blocking the shot...DMs game is predicated on him taking the player out of the rush to prevent the shot from happening at all.

if DG misses his blocked shot, its a SOG...if DM misses his chance to take the player out, its an odd man rush against.

the difference being DM can and has taken the player out of the play early to stem the offensive threats frequently..when he gets roasted every once in a while, thats all anyone remembers.

i think its all about gap control...DMs is probably a bit too small, and DGs is cavernously large. Id rather DM play, and learn to gauge NHL gap control, than DG continue to try to be an extra goalie out there since he knows he has zero ability to stop the rush otherwise.

you cannot underestimate experience.

as players age their job gets easier mentally. they understand the game and they understand what they need to do to be successful. no different really than life itself. you end up doing less" tail chasing" and becoming more efficient.

its the physical part of the game that catches up with you, the injuries and the aging legs eventually take their toll. thats girardi.

with mcilrath is the opposite. he just doesnt think the game well enough at speed. he's a reactor and sometimes that looks bad. he's improving in many areas but his ability to defend one on one- kind of important, still needs work. he just plain lacks experience.

physically he's imposing. mentally, and with his in game hockey iq, he's rather average.

 

[E-Train]

Really good analysis of McI's play by both Inferno and ODC. I prefer McIlrath's approach than G's. The 6 goalie system is by no means the way to play in 2016. The experience part is painfully obvious, Girardi dressed for 116 NHL games in his age 22 & 23 seasons, McIlrath only 35, 34 of which were last season.

 

[Miamipuck]

i definitely agree with this...in the respect that, if you simply look at McIlraths play alone without any context of alternatives, that it is a big time flaw in his game (as is his balance)

however, you dont need to just look at Dylan..you need to look at who he is fighting for to get playing time.

i think the reason Dylan can get roasted in one on one matchups is because he keeps a relatively close gap...he tries to step up and stop the play right away, if the guy is fast enough to get around him, hes going to get around him.

look at how dan girardi plays the same play...his gap is...well, its usually a half a zone if not a full zone larger....for example, if a guy is heading up the ice with a head of steam at his own blueline, Dylan McIlrath will probably be at the red line trying to force the player to the boards for a big hit....Dan Girardi will be at his own blue line skating backwards with literally 1 full zones worth of space for the guy to skate in and make a play..by the time the guy is in the offensive zone DG will be at the tops or the middle of the circle and the guy can come in and get a free shot on goal. DG's game is predicated on him blocking the shot...DMs game is predicated on him taking the player out of the rush to prevent the shot from happening at all.

if DG misses his blocked shot, its a SOG...if DM misses his chance to take the player out, its an odd man rush against.

the difference being DM can and has taken the player out of the play early to stem the offensive threats frequently..when he gets roasted every once in a while, thats all anyone remembers.

i think its all about gap control...DMs is probably a bit too small, and DGs is cavernously large. Id rather DM play, and learn to gauge NHL gap control, than DG continue to try to be an extra goalie out there since he knows he has zero ability to stop the rush otherwise.

This is a great observation. I started playing defense occasionally in beer leagues and even there, I struggled with gap control at first. I can hardly imagine what it would be like at the ridiculous speeds the NHL is nowadays. Anyways, that's a very good breakdown between the 2 and I think it's fairly accurate. Neither is really good enough to play the style they're playing but I would prefer the closer gap, I don't think the big gap backup lends itself to the modern NHL.

 

[TurgePurge*]

This. If he really sucks who cares? His trade value can't be that high anyway.

What? Are we in tank mode or something?

 

[Apocalypse Dude]

What? Are we in tank mode or something?

Never said that but what I mean is if he plays and he sucks no big deal, AV was right (In which case ). If he does play well though keep him or trade him while his value is high. Either way it's better than having him sit.

 

[Inferno]

you cannot underestimate experience.

as players age their job gets easier mentally. they understand the game and they understand what they need to do to be successful. no different really than life itself. you end up doing less" tail chasing" and becoming more efficient.

its the physical part of the game that catches up with you, the injuries and the aging legs eventually take their toll. thats girardi.

with mcilrath is the opposite. he just doesnt think the game well enough at speed. he's a reactor and sometimes that looks bad. he's improving in many areas but his ability to defend one on one- kind of important, still needs work. he just plain lacks experience.

physically he's imposing. mentally, and with his in game hockey iq, he's rather average.

im not sure if he is or isnt a slow thinker though..its certainly possible, but i feel like, with consistent play and a consistent partner who wasnt a complete travesty (read Boyle, Dan playing his off side), DM seemed to play a really strong game...his 1 on 1 rushes werent bad at all...honestly...they really werent happening all that much because...and i know this is shocking for AV...but they played in the god damn offensive zone so much that it wasnt a problem.

again, it IS an issue for him, and Beacon is spot on...but i think youre not going to get better, even with practice, if you dont play games...certainly not if your coach shows zero faith in you.

DM needs to play, play regularly, and with a competent partner...I really think Ryan McD is that guy...you can double shift MCd with 2 partners, and play McIlrath 12-14 mins a night...but have his regular partner, when he's on the ice, be McD.

McD can play with anyone. i dont think he needs a consistent partner to be his usual elite self.

 

[Raspewtin]

whether it's fair or not Dylan has to be great today.

 

[silverfish]

whether it's fair or not Dylan has to be great today.

Really true. If he struggles at all, Klein is coming back in on Wednesday whether he's 100% or not.

 

[Badko]

What? Are we in tank mode or something?

Nobody said anything about tanking. I suggested that Dylan get a good look in 15 to 20 games straight so that he can be judged fairly. That would eliminate the excuse that he plays tentatively to avoid mistakes and wind up in the press box. If, after that stretch of games, AV still doesn't think he'll fit in, then both sides can move on.

 

[Raspewtin]

im not sure if he is or isnt a slow thinker though..its certainly possible, but i feel like, with consistent play and a consistent partner who wasnt a complete travesty (read Boyle, Dan playing his off side), DM seemed to play a really strong game...his 1 on 1 rushes werent bad at all...honestly...they really werent happening all that much because...and i know this is shocking for AV...but they played in the god damn offensive zone so much that it wasnt a problem.

again, it IS an issue for him, and Beacon is spot on...but i think youre not going to get better, even with practice, if you dont play games...certainly not if your coach shows zero faith in you.

DM needs to play, play regularly, and with a competent partner...I really think Ryan McD is that guy...you can double shift MCd with 2 partners, and play McIlrath 12-14 mins a night...but have his regular partner, when he's on the ice, be McD.

McD can play with anyone. i dont think he needs a consistent partner to be his usual elite self.

this this this this this thi

I ****ing hate the "he's bad in his own zone" trope so much. If he keeps you out of your own zone, who cares? Dylan might not be good defending 1 on 1 but he's poised with the puck and smart at pinching in a way that it reduces those situations to the point where that 1 on 1 rush is just a business cost. Same with Adam Clendening, where his backwards skating is a very real concern, but if he can keep offensive pressure, does it matter as much?

Skjei isn't Top 6. He's #7. If Klein weren't injured, Skjei wouldn't be playing.

I strangely doubt that.

If you're asking why he is #7 and Dylan is #8...it probably comes down to skating ability.

Alright but that's not what I asked. Why did a player, who is worse and had a worse pre-season, make the team? At a position of strength?

Skjei has a greater ability to recover from his mistakes than does Mcilrath.

Still not what I asked.

But you're right, they both had a bad pre-season. Hard for me to say that one was worse than the other.

Skjei was pretty clearly worse than McIlrath imo.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Really true. If he struggles at all, Klein is coming back in on Wednesday whether he's 100% or not.

I don't think it matters. McIlrath was hardly the worst Dman in the pre-season. AV would rather have Holden, notoriously bad on his off-side than McIlrath. The organization has nothing to gain by such a move, but it happened anyway. Again, just put him in a deal where the return is a quality RHD, and move on.

 

[silverfish]

I don't think it matters. McIlrath was hardly the worst Dman in the pre-season. AV would rather have Holden, notoriously bad on his off-side than McIlrath. The organization has nothing to gain by such a move, but it happened anyway. Again, just put him in a deal where the return is a quality RHD, and move on.

Which is worst outcome possible.

Draft kid in top 10. Develop through career altering knee injuries for 6 years.

Have him prove he can take a regular NHL shift.

Watch him relegated to the press box because the coach doesn't trust him.

Trade him for pennies on the dollar as a throw in part of a bigger deal.

I know we agree on this, but I'm just baffled that AV refuses to develop him.

I actually had a dream that I was on Twitter and saw a report that Yandle was pushing the Panthers to trade for McIlrath -- I need a life.

 

[Raspewtin]

I don't think it matters. McIlrath was hardly the worst Dman in the pre-season. AV would rather have Holden, notoriously bad on his off-side than McIlrath. The organization has nothing to gain by such a move, but it happened anyway. Again, just put him in a deal where the return is a quality RHD, and move on.

Playing Holden on his off-side instead of McIlrath tells me AV wants to win and has not accepted this as a transition year, which kind of scares me.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Which is worst outcome possible.

Draft kid in top 10. Develop through career altering knee injuries for 6 years.

Have him prove he can take a regular NHL shift.

Watch him relegated to the press box because the coach doesn't trust him.

Trade him for pennies on the dollar as a throw in part of a bigger deal.

I know we agree on this, but I'm just baffled that AV refuses to develop him.

I actually had a dream that I was on Twitter and saw a report that Yandle was pushing the Panthers to trade for McIlrath -- I need a life.

McIlrath is exactly what Gorton wants to acquire on the blueline, and this coach remains clueless of how to deploy him. But, Girardi will get rushed back and forced next to McDonagh when he's even slower and handles the puck much worse. Better still, force Holden into a role he's failed miserably at in the past. Why? Because it's the right thing to do. I do not understand any of this.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Playing Holden on his off-side instead of McIlrath tells me AV wants to win and has not accepted this as a transition year, which kind of scares me.

I'm not even sure if it's about wanting to win. Why Fast in a top 9 role? Why not Clendening with McDonagh when they were excellent against STL? Why will Girardi be rushed back and given top pairing minutes even though every metric shows what an anchor he is to McDonagh? It's a mindset of what he feels comfortable using, which he thinks gives him the best chance to win, even if the resuls do not correspond.

 

[TurgePurge*]

Define irony. According to fans, the team has to make concessions to a player whose best attribute is that he's a team first guy.

 

[silverfish]

Define irony. According to fans, the team has to make concessions to a player whose best attribute is that he's a team first guy.

Is that his best attribute?

I don't think that's his best attribute.

 

[Ghost of jas]

This is the McIlrath thread, not the Girardi or Fast threads.