Player Discussion Dylan McIlrath - Part VII

[NickyFotiu]

true.

but he's got his fall down and get hurt thing working big time so far....

I admire him for all he has given to this team in terms of his body. I wish there was a way he could go out on top without so much fan resentment. Getting older is no fun.

As my buddy tells me all the time, "The older I get the better I was"

 

[offdacrossbar]

I admire him for all he has given to this team in terms of his body. I wish there was a way he could go out on top without so much fan resentment. Getting older is no fun.

As my buddy tells me all the time, "The older I get the better I was"

3rd pair minutes.

limited pk

the "mcilrath" treatment in tight games into the 3rd period.

if av could find a way to limit his ice time, he would be fine both in result and less minutes played on that old beat up body of his.

problem is, when he return, back to line 1 he goes and thats all on av.

 

[offdacrossbar]

sounds like the momentum is building for a move. the writing has been on the wall.

the organization, i guess, is willing to concede to av and look to move mcilrath. av doesnt trust him.

at some point soon, there will need to be a mea culpa of sorts. the pick was a mistake and the player never developed within the system av demands.

gordie clark has some splainin to do. you fall in love with a project player and take him too high, you pay the price. cam fowler was there, waiting to be taken. he fell right into our laps. and say what you please about his overall game, but in hind sight, he would have been the better pick. he's an allstar and a proven pro.

mcilrath not so much.

sad end but one that was predictable and in the end, unfortunate.

meanwhile, vlady has 4 goals already and would be our leading scorer right now.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

sounds like the momentum is building for a move. the writing has been on the wall.

the organization, i guess, is willing to concede to av and look to move mcilrath. av doesnt trust him.

at some point soon, there will need to be a mea culpa of sorts. the pick was a mistake and the player never developed within the system av demands.

gordie clark has some splainin to do. you fall in love with a project player and take him too high, you pay the price. cam fowler was there, waiting to be taken. he fell right into our laps. and say what you please about his overall game, but in hind sight, he would have been the better pick. he's an allstar and a proven pro.

mcilrath not so much.

sad end but one that was predictable and in the end, unfortunate.

meanwhile, vlady has 4 goals already and would be our leading scorer right now.

I don't think Clark has any explaining to do, especially considering his fairly solid drafting record other than this pick.

The league and the Rangers were in a very different place in 2010. It happens

One thing I'll continue to believe until proven otherwise is the Rangers and AV didn't ruin McIlrath. The evolution of the league season after season towards speed and skill did. He's a throwback player in a league that is not going backwards anytime soon. If he hooks on with another team and earns a regular spot, I'll happily concede that view.

But check out the NY Post article this morning. There's speculation that McIlrath can be had for something like a 3rd rounder. Wouldn't gorton's phone be ringing off the hook if other teams saw that type of value in McIlrath that many see on this board?

 

[Irishguy42]

sounds like the momentum is building for a move. the writing has been on the wall.

the organization, i guess, is willing to concede to av and look to move mcilrath. av doesnt trust him.

at some point soon, there will need to be a mea culpa of sorts. the pick was a mistake and the player never developed within the system av demands.

gordie clark has some splainin to do. you fall in love with a project player and take him too high, you pay the price. cam fowler was there, waiting to be taken. he fell right into our laps. and say what you please about his overall game, but in hind sight, he would have been the better pick. he's an allstar and a proven pro.

mcilrath not so much.

sad end but one that was predictable and in the end, unfortunate.

meanwhile, vlady has 4 goals already and would be our leading scorer right now.

No he doesn't. Back then, McIlrath was a viable drafting option for the way the game was 6 years ago. That was the mentality the Rangers had. Things change. But Gordie doesn't need to explain anything.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I don't think Clark has any explaining to do, especially considering his fairly solid drafting record other than this pick.

The league and the Rangers were in a very different place in 2010. It happens

One thing I'll continue to believe until proven otherwise is the Rangers and AV didn't ruin McIlrath. The evolution of the league season after season towards speed and skill did. He's a throwback player in a league that is not going backwards anytime soon. If he hooks on with another team and earns a regular spot, I'll happily concede that view.

But check out the NY Post article this morning. There's speculation that McIlrath can be had for something like a 3rd rounder. Wouldn't gorton's phone be ringing off the hook if other teams saw that type of value in McIlrath that many see on this board?

i disagree however i do concur that his game is no longer relevant in the new nhl.

drafting 101 is not drafting for a specific need. period.

you draft BPA everytime and realize that the best player has the best chance of playing in the league based upon his skills. you make room for talent. you develop talent and if there isn't room, you move that talent for more talent. its drafting 101. at the time of the 2010 draft, mcilraths skills were suspect.

things change ill give you that. coaches, systems, the league itself, all moving targets but skill trumps a perceived need. and in this case, even though torts may have had a hand in taking the physical toughness that was so intoxicating with dylan, the fact remains, he was a reach and a project from day 1 with such a limited resume as a hockey player.

keep in mind, he had NOT been playing competitive hockey that long, and certainly not at a high level compare to his peers in that draft. he was VERY raw and had really one small run of improvement prior to his draft year. his overall body of work was either incomplete or rather bland. the top highlight in his draft year was the fight against petrovic in the top prospects game. foreshadowing his future perhaps ?

he was a purely speculative pick based upon his size and ability to fight as his hockey skills were both underdeveloped and underwhelming at the time of the draft.

i totally reject the notion that "at the time we needed what he offered" argument for 2 reasons.

first, even if true and we were lacking toughness, he was 2-4 years away from helping anyway so that criteria for the pick was flawed- as it always will be when you draft for need. he wasnt nearly nhl ready to help soon enough so the idea that he was drafted to make us tougher assumed we would still need that 2-4 years later. flawed logic.

secondly, the things he offered to the team- when ever he was "ready" were skills that the league was phasing out in leu of a faster more skills based scoring game. dylan only offered those things the league no longer desired and struggles to this day with the new nhl pace of the game and ability to defend fast skilled players. those "hockey skills" he lacked on draft day continue to haunt him.

I've said many times before, when a player does his best work after the whistle or while standing static, thats not a skills based player and certainly not the 10th pick in the draft. fighting is a part of the game- and i hope it continues to be, but it cannot be the largest part of YOUR game in todays nhl.

this organization took a chance, gordie clark specifically took a chance, reaching for a raw project dman while there were better choices falling in their laps.

i hope he can catch on with another organization. he's gotten a raw deal form av for sure but we must understand av sees him in practice and in drills and our own forwards play against him daily so theres more info available to him to make his decisions. i dont think its just personal.

but, in the end, he will never be worthy of having been chosen the 10th pick in the 2010 draft.

 

[True Blue]

sounds like the momentum is building for a move. the writing has been on the wall.

the organization, i guess, is willing to concede to av and look to move mcilrath. av doesnt trust him.

But why? It is not like AV has delivered them to the promised land or has a record of making sound personnel decisions. And now we are to take his word for it that an over the hill Girardi or a 29 year old journeyman in Holden gives them the better chance to win?

at some point soon, there will need to be a mea culpa of sorts. the pick was a mistake and the player never developed within the system av demands.

Which was what? Becoming a slick skating puck moving defenseman? Even in today's NHL, there are other types.

 

[True Blue]

He's a throwback player in a league that is not going backwards anytime soon. If he hooks on with another team and earns a regular spot, I'll happily concede that view.

Being able to have throwback aspects in your game, does not make one obsolete.

But check out the NY Post article this morning. There's speculation that McIlrath can be had for something like a 3rd rounder. Wouldn't gorton's phone be ringing off the hook if other teams saw that type of value in McIlrath that many see on this board?

Hard to make a competitive bid when you have no idea of what your bidding on. Has McILrath been allowed to show what he can do?

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Posting this here too since it's obviously relevant to the thread.

Brooks's quote on McIlrath this morning:

Really, the problem that looms is what to do with Dylan McIlrath, whose situation is starting to become untenable. The big-bodied 24-year-old might have endeared himself to fans over the past year with his pugilistic sensibilities, but he seemingly remains a marginal NHL player in the eyes of Vigneault. General manager Jeff Gorton would love to hear someone calling with an offer of a third-round pick, but that call hasn’t even come close to happening yet.

Maybe as the season progresses and teams lose key defensemen to inevitable injuries, the market will rise. Right now, it can’t get much lower.

http://nypost.com/2016/10/20/defense-getting-healthy-which-may-be-bad-news-for-one-ranger/

 

[offdacrossbar]

Being able to have throwback aspects in your game, does not make one obsolete.

Hard to make a competitive bid when you have no idea of what your bidding on. Has McILrath been allowed to show what he can do?

if it takes you 6 years to play, then his window is closing. time is running out on him to show what he can do given his label as a marginal player. he's going to have to work quickly to recreate himself from the player that he is perceived to be right now. another lost season and hell be 26 yrs old.

and yes, while he may not be obsolete, he needs to offer more than punching faces and playing tough.

he needs to be good at hockey too.

 

[OrbitalDynamics]

Vigneault has effectively reduced his value to that of a bag of chipped practice pucks.

His development at the NHL level has been hamfisted, at best.Contrast with Skjei who is "A young player going through the process" and gets to have growing pains and make rookie mistakes.McIlrath gets what? Benched,then exiled to the extra jersey section.

Yes,yes Tara F'ing Senko praytell good sir how many other NHL teams failed to draft St.Tarasenko and thusly hold their manhoods cheap whilst St.Tarasenko skates by? Can you say with 100% certainty the Rangers would have in fact drafted St.Tarasenko?

Now Clark is expected to commit Seppuku in some public fashion? That's not how this works.Come on.Was anyone shot at dawn in a televised spectacle for drafting Huge Specimen? Walked out by corporate security? Had their career ruined?

McIlrath will hopefully not turn into Mike Ridley/Kelly Miller and torture the Rangers with a division rival for years long after Alain Vigneault is no more.

 

[SA16]

Don't see how the situation is "untenable." He's the teams 7th defenseman. Every team has as 7th defenseman.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Don't see how the situation is "untenable." He's the teams 7th defenseman. Every team has as 7th defenseman.

there is this 42 games played issue

he is not a waiver candidate.

while he may have little trade value, his passing through waivers is iffy at best.

for the 10th pick you would hope to get something ?

 

[OrbitalDynamics]

I like how Vigneault touches on salary...like the $800K McIlrath makes is going to be what shoves him out the door.

 

[Off Sides]

No team is going to trade 3rd for him unless he plays, and plays well, at which point it would not be worth trading a 3rd for him to the Rangers.

I do not have high expectation, but from an asset management point of view they should play him.

Not playing him, he has no value (trade or to the Rangers beyond being their 8th D), nor will he meet the expansion requirements, nor does he remain a RFA this off-season.

I guess the best question is, would them trying to build up his value by playing him, be worth it even if it's enough to trade him for something like a 3rd, or be able to expose him as part of the expansion requirement, or maybe he'd actually work out well enough they'd want to keep him as a RFA?

If not, they should at least waive him and see if anyone picks him up, and if not, send him to the AHL so he can at least play. It's just not really fair to give him 5 or 6 NHL games this season if that is the plan and it does nothing for him or the team in any way to do that.

 

[SA16]

there is this 42 games played issue

he is not a waiver candidate.

while he may have little trade value, his passing through waivers is iffy at best.

for the 10th pick you would hope to get something ?

The 10th pick is irrelevant. That was 6 years ago. It's a sunk cost at this point. What matters is what he is now and he's the teams 7th defenseman (not saying he shouldn't be a regular). For the 1st overall pick you'd hope to get something no? Yakupov just returned like a 3rd and a random minor leaguer.

 

[TheTakedown]

sounds like the momentum is building for a move. the writing has been on the wall.

the organization, i guess, is willing to concede to av and look to move mcilrath. av doesnt trust him.

at some point soon, there will need to be a mea culpa of sorts. the pick was a mistake and the player never developed within the system av demands.

gordie clark has some splainin to do. you fall in love with a project player and take him too high, you pay the price. cam fowler was there, waiting to be taken. he fell right into our laps. and say what you please about his overall game, but in hind sight, he would have been the better pick. he's an allstar and a proven pro.

mcilrath not so much.

sad end but one that was predictable and in the end, unfortunate.

meanwhile, vlady has 4 goals already and would be our leading scorer right now.

So Many what ifs, but imagine what our D would have looked like if we did take Fowler...

Staal would probably never have been extended

Fowler and stralman would have been a fantastic pairing

Maybe we never would have had to trade for yandle...

Something to think about

 

[NickyFotiu]

sounds like the momentum is building for a move. the writing has been on the wall.

the organization, i guess, is willing to concede to av and look to move mcilrath. av doesnt trust him.

at some point soon, there will need to be a mea culpa of sorts. the pick was a mistake and the player never developed within the system av demands.

gordie clark has some splainin to do. you fall in love with a project player and take him too high, you pay the price. cam fowler was there, waiting to be taken. he fell right into our laps. and say what you please about his overall game, but in hind sight, he would have been the better pick. he's an allstar and a proven pro.

mcilrath not so much.

sad end but one that was predictable and in the end, unfortunate.

meanwhile, vlady has 4 goals already and would be our leading scorer right now.

If it makes you feel any better Gordie drafted Chris Kreider in 2009 at #19 after the Ducks drafted Holland at #15 and the Blues drafted Runblad at #17.

 

[True Blue]

and yes, while he may not be obsolete, he needs to offer more than punching faces and playing tough.

he needs to be good at hockey too.

In my view, if you look at the totality of his games, I believe that overall he played the roll of a 3rd pairing defenseman.

if it takes you 6 years to play, then his window is closing. time is running out on him to show what he can do given his label as a marginal player. he's going to have to work quickly to recreate himself from the player that he is perceived to be right now. another lost season and hell be 26 yrs old.

Hard to do when you are not allowed on the ice and the coach would prefer to give the time to those players who actually performed worse.

 

[Trxjw]

He's demonstrated he can be a good defender in the NHL. The coach just doesn't like how he plays the game. Does he have some things he still needs to improve on? Absolutely, but he's not going to get an opportunity to do that here. Hopefully he can find his game elsewhere with a new team.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Yes,yes Tara F'ing Senko praytell good sir how many other NHL teams failed to draft St.Tarasenko and thusly hold their manhoods cheap whilst St.Tarasenko skates by? Can you say with 100% certainty the Rangers would have in fact drafted St.Tarasenko?

.

Or maybe other teams chose guys who actually had talent at the time as opposed to the rangers who overdrafted the hell out of a raw, barely any experience, very little talent D man with two pure gold options sitting right there?

There's a difference between having Nikita Filitov not work out and making an absolutely idiotic draft choice

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Don't see how the situation is "untenable." He's the teams 7th defenseman. Every team has as 7th defenseman.

Technically, hes this team's 8th defenseman

 

[NickyFotiu]

Yes,yes Tara F'ing Senko praytell good sir how many other NHL teams failed to draft St.Tarasenko and thusly hold their manhoods cheap whilst St.Tarasenko skates by? Can you say with 100% certainty the Rangers would have in fact drafted St.Tarasenko?

St. Louis did not even draft Tarasenko with their first 2010 draft pick. They risked him being drafted by LA at #15 after using their #14 pick on Jaden.

 

[Inferno]

send him down to hartford for a conditioning stint, so he can get in some games.

 

[haveandare]

And we're rehashing the draft again...

I really hoped we were done with that. Should have known better