Dylan Cozens vs Nick Suzuki

[SeanMoneyHands]

Cozens because he doesn't look like he's 12 years old.

 

[TMLife17]

I can tell you for sure that Suzuki is a gamer. Good player there, the type that will do what needs to be done to win when it matters.

Cozens I never notice at all when he plays against the Leafs.

I'd easily take Suzuki.

 

[The Great Weal]

Now that's a weird argument... it looks like you had to scrape the barrel to find it...

Bringing up the fact that the Sabres have been vastly better than the Habs offensively isn’t scrapping the barrel, it’s bringing up context.

and it actually might have the opposite effect of what you're hoping. Suzuki is his team's N.1 Center... Cozens has to fight with Tage Thompson and Casey Mittelstadt for TOI and offensive opportunities... Suzuki plays several more minutes per game...

Opposite effect? The issue I brought up isn't about Suzuki, it's about the lack of offensive support Suzuki gets from the rest of the team due to injuries/not being good enough.

I am a fan of facts though

Except for the fact that the Sabres were a lethal offensive team last year while the Habs 2nd leading scorer had 38 points which is pretty much unheard of.

Did you know for example that Cozens has more Points/60 than Suzuki despite the additional minute on the PP?

P/60 is one of the worst stats ever. People used it to say that Kotkaniemi was also better than Suzuki and look how that turned out.

It's a factor but yeah, you're right, it doesn't.

Well I can't help you if think being on an elite offensive team compared to one of the worst ones doesn't help with production as much as playing 60 more seconds on a powerplay.

Suzuki scored 102 pts in 138 games at the same age which is very similar to what Cozens has done so far (102 pts in 135 games)

Good for Cozens. You're still ignoring a massive piece of context here that you chalk up to me "scrapping the barrel" regarding offensive support. Not to mention that Suzuki has already been a beast in both his playoff runs at that age.

 

[ole ole]

I can tell you for sure that Suzuki is a gamer. Good player there, the type that will do what needs to be done to win when it matters.

Cozens I never notice at all when he plays against the Leafs.

I'd easily take Suzuki.

The whole board would say that if he wasn't wearing a Habs sweater.
Just to add Suzuki 55 pts ,Cozens 34 pts so far this season.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

While adding context you're neglecting that Cozens was basically AWOL for 6 weeks while wearing the fish bowl after his I'll advised tilt. He's been much better, and much more involved physically the last month, as lingering affects has finally dissipated

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Cozens because he doesn't look like he's 12 years old.

He looks like he's 10...

 

[Chainshot]

While adding context you're neglecting that Cozens was basically AWOL for 6 weeks while wearing the fish bowl after his I'll advised tilt. He's been much better, and much more involved physically the last month, as lingering affects has finally dissipated

I look at all of his per 60 marks and in points and primary assists, even having a shitty season, Cozens is beating Suzuki. That surprised me. Perhaps the biggest difference seems to be PP production and Suzuki's 2 minutes a night more at ES?

*shrug*

 

[Xspyrit]

Bringing up the fact that the Sabres have been vastly better than the Habs offensively isn’t scrapping the barrel, it’s bringing up context.

Sabres are currently 21st in GF/GP with 2.91, Habs are 28th with 2.74. It's not the huge difference you are making it out to be. My favorite team are 8th with 3.34 GF/GP and it's the same story, there's a lot of guys who could theoretically put up numbers but these pts have to be shared between a lot of guys. Just at Center, there is Stutzle, Norris, Pinto and Greig who all want their share. Suzuki has the advantage of being the go to guy and he receives prime time at ES and PP

Opposite effect? The issue I brought up isn't about Suzuki, it's about the lack of offensive support Suzuki gets from the rest of the team due to injuries/not being good enough.

I have heard ad nauseam that Cole Caufield was one of the best picks in 2019, is he not great offensive support, also Salfkovsky and Monahan with who he got most of his points. Look at how Cozens got his points this season... rookies Peterka and Quinn, Mittelstadt, Greenway and a bit everyone else

I don't see a advantage for Cozens there

Except for the fact that the Sabres were a lethal offensive team last year while the Habs 2nd leading scorer had 38 points which is pretty much unheard of.

Yes the point is valid but the nuance that you seem to avoid is that in a more offensive team, you might have to share the load with more players. Same thing for Cozens last season, his points came with the same players who had even less experience

P/60 is one of the worst stats ever. People used it to say that Kotkaniemi was also better than Suzuki and look how that turned out.

I only used it in the context that Suzuki receives prime ES + PP minutes, P/60 highlights that

Well I can't help you if think being on an elite offensive team compared to one of the worst ones doesn't help with production as much as playing 60 more seconds on a powerplay.

I never said it's not a factor, it's more you that decides to ignore the other factors. 1 minute PER GAME more on the PP is CERTAINLY a factor that can help production... being the main offensive guy on a team vs being stuck behind many other guys is also a factor. I also already shown you the stat for GF/GP for the 2 teams this year, the difference is not significant. It was significant last season and yes it helped Cozens for his PP pts for example, but for ES, you gotta consider who he played with and against what kind of competition

Listen I can't explain all hockey in just one post.

Good for Cozens. You're still ignoring a massive piece of context here that you chalk up to me "scrapping the barrel" regarding offensive support. Not to mention that Suzuki has already been a beast in both his playoff runs at that age.

I am not ignoring anything, it has been VALIDATED several times in every post. Lack of reading of comprehension on your part or simple denial.

 

[TheDoldrums]

They're having a mid off

 

[The Great Weal]

Sabres are currently 21st in GF/GP with 2.91, Habs are 28th with 2.74.

You brought up last year and this season combined, not just this season. Stay consistent with your arguments. Sabres are 11th in GF/GP while the Habs are 28th.

Suzuki has the advantage of being the go to guy and he receives prime time at ES and PP

The 2nd leading scorer on the team had 38 points which is unheard of, it's not that hard to understand.

I have heard ad nauseam that Cole Caufield was one of the best picks in 2019, is he not great offensive support, also Salfkovsky and Monahan with who he got most of his points.

Caufield played 46 games last year, Slaf played 39 and wasn't anywhere near as productive as this year considering he was a rookie, and Monahan played 25 games. They all had season-ending injuries early on. As someone who's supposedly a big fan of facts, it's odd that you don't include the fact that they were injured for a significantly long amount of time. Which is why the 2nd leading scorer had 38 points last year for the Habs. It makes a difference when you have to play with the likes of RHP to end the season who isn't good enough to be a quality top 6 forward.

Now that the team is way healthier, he's been getting far better linemates and it's no surprise that his production has benefitted from it tremendously. This includes Caufield who has a shooting % well below what he should have and Slaf who despite making massive strides in development is still on pace for 42 points.

Yes the point is valid but the nuance that you seem to avoid is that in a more offensive team, you might have to share the load with more players. Same thing for Cozens last season, his points came with the same players who had even less experience

You also score way more goals like how the Sabres have. Not to mention that when you're the only offensive threat (as per the fact that your 2nd leading scorer ended the season with 38 points), you are who the other team targets to shut down. Cozens never had to face that the same way as the other Sabres lines were also a threat to score.

I only used it in the context that Suzuki receives prime ES + PP minutes, P/60 highlights that

Yeah the Habs should diminish that ES+PP time and give it to their 2nd line center Jake Evans instead. Your P/60 stat fails to highlight that last year, Suzuki was the only top 6 center so obviously he's going to play more. This year, even though Monahan was a much better improvement, the center depth after them is practically nonexistent due to the Dach/Dvorak injuries and now with Monahan gone, they have to overplay Suzuki even more.

I never said it's not a factor, it's more you that decides to ignore the other factors. 1 minute PER GAME more on the PP is CERTAINLY a factor that can help production... being the main offensive guy on a team vs being stuck behind many other guys is also a factor.

Playing for a team that is 11th in GF/GP and doesn't have their second leading scorer have 38 points is the absolute biggest factor that you keep minimizing for no valid reason.

I also already shown you the stat for GF/GP for the 2 teams this year, the difference is not significant. It was significant last season and yes it helped Cozens for his PP pts for example, but for ES, you gotta consider who he played with and against what kind of competition

You brought up 2022-2023 + 2023-2024, NOT 2023-2024 on its own. Funny how I gotta consider that for Cozens when you consistently fail to consider Suzuki's ridiculous lack of offensive support last year. Not to mention that you're saying Cozens had to share the ice time unlike Suzuki, wich means that Suzuki is in fact facing more difficult competition. You're contradicting yourself badly here.

Listen I can't explain all hockey in just one post.

Maybe start by considering that how a player is injured like how Caufield and Monahan were last year doesn't mean that they suck. It means that they are unable to produce since they aren't playing due to their injury. Or that having your 2nd leading scorer have 38 points is essentially unheard of and very clearly demonstrates how Suzuki got little to no offensive support last year.

I am not ignoring anything, it has been VALIDATED several times in every post. Lack of reading of comprehension on your part or simple denial.

You probably shouldn't critique someone's reading comprehension when you can't even acknowledge that the Caufield/Slaf/Monahan had season ending injuries last year. Are you going to tell me that I'm scrapping the barrel again or admit that you have zero idea what you are talking about as per your disingenuous "facts"? The fact master has made some very serious errors numerous times now and is in denial about it.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

He looks like he's 10...

I just looked at pics, you’re right. Both him and Suzuki look like Jr. high teenagers.

 

[Ghetty Green]

Habs fans massively overrate Suzuki. He’s a mediocre 5v5 producer who gets a ton of minutes to put up ok totals. He’s a better defensive Bo Horvat, not the 1C they want him to be.



Using career stats is pretty meaningless in a comparison of someone this young. Cozens started in the NHL a year earlier, and is 2 years younger. His age 20 and 21 seasons have roughly the same PPG (0.66) as Suzuki at the same ages (0.65). Meanwhile he outproduced him last year while playing nearly 5 fewer minutes per game.

A Habs player is overrated on HF ? what a shock

 

[Xspyrit]

You brought up last year and this season combined, not just this season. Stay consistent with your arguments. Sabres are 11th in GF/GP while the Habs are 28th.

The 2nd leading scorer on the team had 38 points which is unheard of, it's not that hard to understand.

Caufield played 46 games last year, Slaf played 39 and wasn't anywhere near as productive as this year considering he was a rookie, and Monahan played 25 games. They all had season-ending injuries early on. As someone who's supposedly a big fan of facts, it's odd that you don't include the fact that they were injured for a significantly long amount of time. Which is why the 2nd leading scorer had 38 points last year for the Habs. It makes a difference when you have to play with the likes of RHP to end the season who isn't good enough to be a quality top 6 forward.

I wish to not pursue this whole debate because time is a valuable thing and this not even related to subjects I care about so this will be my last post (next would be a short answer)

I can admit that I shouldn't have said the "scrape the barrel" comment. It's not that your argument isn't good but it's a double-edged sword argument like I have been trying to explain. Cozens has been playing behind several guys, while Suzuki is the go-to-guy in Montreal, plays more prime minutes (including PP) and plays with players at least as good or experienced as Cozens (all these facts were provided already)

Now really sorry for mixing you up if I talked about last 2 seasons combined and THEN isolated the current season. I guess I should have been more explicit than "currently" or just stayed with the same combined analysis.

Regarding Suzuki's linemates last season, honest mistake as dobber "update profile" didn't work so it was still on 2023-24... Had to do it 5 times now and even refresh it to finally make it work. His linemates were mostly Caufield and Dach and ES and then plenty other guys. RHP was great last season, call it beginner's luck or catching a lightning in a bottle but it looked like he would be more than he has been this season.

Now that the team is way healthier, he's been getting far better linemates and it's no surprise that his production has benefitted from it tremendously. This includes Caufield who has a shooting % well below what he should have and Slaf who despite making massive strides in development is still on pace for 42 points.

Suzuki's bump in production mainly comes from the PP. On Ottawa, there's 5 guys with more ESP so far this season (Stutzle, Giroux, Tkachuk, Batherson and Tarasenko) and a guy he's tied with at 28 pts, Mathieu Joseph. On Buffalo, less guys but still 3 (Mittelstadt, Peterka and Tuch). Suzuki already has 10 more PPP than last season, in 24 less games.

You also score way more goals like how the Sabres have. Not to mention that when you're the only offensive threat (as per the fact that your 2nd leading scorer ended the season with 38 points), you are who the other team targets to shut down. Cozens never had to face that the same way as the other Sabres lines were also a threat to score.

I can agree with that, it's one of the factors. However, I have not verified QoC for both players so I'll give you benefit of the doubt, maybe the difference is negligible I don't know and certainly won't invest an additional minute in this lol

Yeah the Habs should diminish that ES+PP time and give it to their 2nd line center Jake Evans instead. Your P/60 stat fails to highlight that last year, Suzuki was the only top 6 center so obviously he's going to play more. This year, even though Monahan was a much better improvement, the center depth after them is practically nonexistent due to the Dach/Dvorak injuries and now with Monahan gone, they have to overplay Suzuki even more.

Playing for a team that is 11th in GF/GP and doesn't have their second leading scorer have 38 points is the absolute biggest factor that you keep minimizing for no valid reason.

You brought up 2022-2023 + 2023-2024, NOT 2023-2024 on its own. Funny how I gotta consider that for Cozens when you consistently fail to consider Suzuki's ridiculous lack of offensive support last year. Not to mention that you're saying Cozens had to share the ice time unlike Suzuki, wich means that Suzuki is in fact facing more difficult competition. You're contradicting yourself badly here.

Maybe start by considering that how a player is injured like how Caufield and Monahan were last year doesn't mean that they suck. It means that they are unable to produce since they aren't playing due to their injury. Or that having your 2nd leading scorer have 38 points is essentially unheard of and very clearly demonstrates how Suzuki got little to no offensive support last year.

You probably shouldn't critique someone's reading comprehension when you can't even acknowledge that the Caufield/Slaf/Monahan had season ending injuries last year. Are you going to tell me that I'm scrapping the barrel again or admit that you have zero idea what you are talking about as per your disingenuous "facts"? The fact master has made some very serious errors numerous times now and is in denial about it.

lol you put way too much emphasis on the 38 pts... Since there was injuries, it's obviously not 38 pts in 82 games, there was an aggregate doh

Seriously this is way too long and even stupid, everything has already been addressed several times. You're just repeating yourself over and over and ignore the answers. Outside of the admitted mistakes above, I am not contradicting myself or in denial lol, everything is there for you to see, agree with the facts or not, it doesn't change anything

 

[ole ole]

Sabres are currently 21st in GF/GP with 2.91, Habs are 28th with 2.74. It's not the huge difference you are making it out to be.

















I

55pts-33 pts seems to be quite a difference.

 

[Heffyhoof]

A Habs player is overrated on HF ? what a shock

It's literally the opposite %90 of the time. Main board trolls crap on Habs players and end up wrong about their value nearly every single time. Same here, Suzuki is vastly better and the only reason it's up for discussion is because he plays for the Habs.

But hey, Cozens had 2 more points in a year where a teammate of his had 94 and he was the 5th highest scorer on his team. Suzuki was 1st and the next highest teammate had 38.

 

[Habano]

Suzuki only has 30 points more than Cozens so obviously give me Cozens

 

[KevSkillz4]

I really like Cozens. But i'd rather have Suzuki. Suzuki with a better team will put 80-90 pts with his two-way ability?! That's a special player right there.

 

[Montreal Shadow]

Cozens for making it out of the freakin’ Yukon. He should be put in the hall for this alone.

 

[Frank Drebin]

What the heck were those trade proposals last summer? I think there was a Sabres fan that woundn't trade Cozens for Suzuki and Caufield.

 

[Bouboumaster]

This thread is f***ing hilarious