Line Combos: Dumo or Petts in '22-'23

[pistolpete11]

In order of preference:

Dumo
Neither
Both

There is no situation where they should get rid of Dumo and keep Petts.

 

[jmelm]

I disagree with the last post because I came on here to say (again) that I've been actually pretty happy/impressed by Pettersson of late.

Up until the last few weeks, I was leaning get rid of Petts because Dumo is just more solid (or has been in the past) and he has had a history of stepping up in the playoffs. But at some point the wheels have to fall off and I think we're seeing that with Dumo now.

The other FACT (not opnion, but fact) is that Pettersson is not done developing and his best hockey is still in the years ahead of him. How much better he'll get and what his ceiling is, and how quickly he'll get there, those are the open questions, but like most NHL Dmen who peak in their late 20's or even into their 30s, Pettersson is going to follow a similar trajectory. The Drew Doughty's of the world who peak in their early/mid 20s are the exception, not the norm.

So given Dumo's lousy play of late, and in the absence of truly better options in UFA, I'd be inclined to keep Petts (to see how he is next year and if he can take that leap) and move out Dumo, who will also have the added benefit of being a lot easier to trade and bringing back a decent return (two 2nds or a 2nd + B prospect).

 

[metalan2]

Petersen is vanilla in every way and can be replaced by any serviceable defenseman in the league. A 70% Dumo is more valuable.

 

[jmelm]

Petersen is vanilla in every way and can be replaced by any serviceable defenseman in the league. A 70% Dumo is more valuable.

Given how bad Dumo has been recently, I’d be scared to see how “70% as good as that” would be.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I disagree with the last post because I came on here to say (again) that I've been actually pretty happy/impressed by Pettersson of late.

Up until the last few weeks, I was leaning get rid of Petts because Dumo is just more solid (or has been in the past) and he has had a history of stepping up in the playoffs. But at some point the wheels have to fall off and I think we're seeing that with Dumo now.

The other FACT (not opnion, but fact) is that Pettersson is not done developing and his best hockey is still in the years ahead of him. How much better he'll get and what his ceiling is, and how quickly he'll get there, those are the open questions, but like most NHL Dmen who peak in their late 20's or even into their 30s, Pettersson is going to follow a similar trajectory. The Drew Doughty's of the world who peak in their early/mid 20s are the exception, not the norm.

So given Dumo's lousy play of late, and in the absence of truly better options in UFA, I'd be inclined to keep Petts (to see how he is next year and if he can take that leap) and move out Dumo, who will also have the added benefit of being a lot easier to trade and bringing back a decent return (two 2nds or a 2nd + B prospect).

The reason Petts has gotten benched is the fact he's been bodied off the puck too easily. He's gonna get tossed around like a rag doll come playoffs

 

[jmelm]

The reason Petts has gotten benched is the fact he's been bodied off the puck too easily. He's gonna get tossed around like a rag doll come playoffs

I understand, and he needs to continue to get stronger. It’s going to be the same issue with POJ, who is also very slender.

But the question of Dumo vs Petts for the long term, I’ve seen enough good things out of Petts that I think he can be a significant player for us in the future.

I’m not sure I can say the same for Dumo. I would have expected Dumo, at his age (he’s not THAT old) that he should be able to maintain the solid play we’ve seen from him for another 3 or 4 years before declining. Maybe that will still be the case and he’ll turn things around and maintain solid play for the next few years, but it’s also possible the decline has already started. With Petts, he’s only going to improve, not worsen.

 

[pistolpete11]

The reason Petts has gotten benched is the fact he's been bodied off the puck too easily. He's gonna get tossed around like a rag doll come playoffs

Now imagine him playing 20+min a night against the top competition the other team can offer. *shudder

I've defended Petts for years and still think he's a solid albeit vanilla player, but he's not as good as even this version of Dumo. If their roles were reversed, I think that would be clear as day for everybody.

I will amend my previous post, though. If they could get a nice return on Dumo and it would take adding to get rid of Petts, I could see a scenario where it would make sense to keep Petts and get rid of Dumo. But I don't think either would be the case.

 

[jmelm]

Now imagine him playing 20+min a night against the top competition the other team can offer. *shudder

I've defended Petts for years and still think he's a solid albeit vanilla player, but he's not as good as even this version of Dumo. If their roles were reversed, I think that would be clear as day for everybody.

I will amend my previous post, though. If they could get a nice return on Dumo and it would take adding to get rid of Petts, I could see a scenario where it would make sense to keep Petts and get rid of Dumo. But I don't think either would be the case.

Of course the Pens could get a good return for Dumo. He’s a 2 x Cup winner who’s 6’4 and still only 31. The fact he has an expiring contract makes him more desirable in this flat cap world because teams wouldn’t be tied to him beyond next season. So I think a lot of teams would be interested in adding a guy like that.

Regarding ice time: Matheson can play more minutes, so Pettersson does not need to be elevated to top pair. He could stay with Marino on the 2nd pair and POJ could get sheltered minutes with a steady vet in Ruh.

 

[pistolpete11]

Of course the Pens could get a good return for Dumo. He’s a 2 x Cup winner who’s 6’4 and still only 31. The fact he has an expiring contract makes him more desirable in this flat cap world because teams wouldn’t be tied to him beyond next season. So I think a lot of teams would be interested in adding a guy like that.

Regarding ice time: Matheson can play more minutes, so Pettersson does not need to be elevated to top pair. He could stay with Marino on the 2nd pair and POJ could get sheltered minutes with a steady vet in Ruh.

I know, those are the reasons I want to keep Dumo.

But it depends on a) what 'nice/good return' means exactly and b) if it also took adding assets to get rid of Petts. If the return for Dumo is a 2nd or 3rd and a mediocre prospect or something, I'm not interested. If it's a 1st or an NHL ready player at a different position of need, you have my attention. I doubt they get a 1st, though, and it would depend on the NHL ready player whether Petts+NHL player > Dumo+whatever return they could get for Petts.

I'm not necessarily saying Petts would have to take Dumo's role and ice time. I'm saying Dumo's weaknesses and mistakes are amplified by him playing 22min a night against the best competition compared to Petts getting 15min a night.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Of course the Pens could get a good return for Dumo. He’s a 2 x Cup winner who’s 6’4 and still only 31. The fact he has an expiring contract makes him more desirable in this flat cap world because teams wouldn’t be tied to him beyond next season. So I think a lot of teams would be interested in adding a guy like that.

Regarding ice time: Matheson can play more minutes, so Pettersson does not need to be elevated to top pair. He could stay with Marino on the 2nd pair and POJ could get sheltered minutes with a steady vet in Ruh.

Have you considered that a major reason Math has been so good is the fact he's not getting top pair minutes?
If you give him an elevated role he may end up reverting to what he looked like in Fla

 

[jmelm]

Have you considered that a major reason Math has been so good is the fact he's not getting top pair minutes?
If you give him an elevated role he may end up reverting to what he looked like in Fla

There's only one way to find out, which is to give him that opportunity. He's certainly earned it.

Matheson is certainly right in the sweet spot of "prime" for a Dman, which occurs later than forwards. So it would not suprise me at all if he could take another step forward next year and cement himself as a legitimate top-pairing Dman. Let's give him the chance because it's a pretty good bet to take.

 

[jmelm]

I know, those are the reasons I want to keep Dumo.

But it depends on a) what 'nice/good return' means exactly and b) if it also took adding assets to get rid of Petts. If the return for Dumo is a 2nd or 3rd and a mediocre prospect or something, I'm not interested. If it's a 1st or an NHL ready player at a different position of need, you have my attention. I doubt they get a 1st, though, and it would depend on the NHL ready player whether Petts+NHL player > Dumo+whatever return they could get for Petts.

I'm not necessarily saying Petts would have to take Dumo's role and ice time. I'm saying Dumo's weaknesses and mistakes are amplified by him playing 22min a night against the best competition compared to Petts getting 15min a night.

I've said this before, that it comes down to the following:

1) What does this team really think of POJ? Do they believe he's a legit, quality NHL Dman as of next year with a bright future with this club, or do they feel that he'll have limitations being a really effective Dman at the NHL level in the short to medium term (putting aside long term)?

2) Salary cap. If the cap wasn't an issue or if Zucker was making 3.5 instead of 5.5, I would not be looking to get rid of Dumo at all, but rather to play him fewer minutes in a 2nd or 3rd pairing role. But if we're keeping Zucker, that means a Dman has to go if we want to retain Letang/Rust/Malkin/Rakell (or replace any of those those 4 with someone comparable if one or more leaves).

The return for Dumo or Petts is secondary to the opportunity cost against the cap.

 

[pistolpete11]

I've said this before, that it comes down to the following:

1) What does this team really think of POJ? Do they believe he's a legit, quality NHL Dman as of next year with a bright future with this club, or do they feel that he'll have limitations being a really effective Dman at the NHL level in the short to medium term (putting aside long term)?

2) Salary cap. If the cap wasn't an issue or if Zucker was making 3.5 instead of 5.5, I would not be looking to get rid of Dumo at all, but rather to play him fewer minutes in a 2nd or 3rd pairing role. But if we're keeping Zucker, that means a Dman has to go if we want to retain Letang/Rust/Malkin/Rakell (or replace any of those those 4 with someone comparable if one or more leaves).

The return for Dumo or Petts is secondary to the opportunity cost against the cap.

1. I don't know what they think, but I think POJ is a 3rd pairing dman who will need to be somewhat protected, at least until he shows otherwise.

2. My stance is I would take Dumo 10 times out of 10 over Petts. The only thing that would sway that is the returns. If you're telling me the returns are a wash, give me Dumo. Without question.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

Time to move on from Dumo (unless he has heroically playing through an injury this year). Next year he’s Orpik without hitting and the year after he’s second go around Scuderi. Get something at the draft including more cap space. Time to play POJ. I’m not down on Petts, but he’s not going to be worth moving. Meaning we would not get cap space back.

 

[Andy99]

Time to move on from Dumo (unless he has heroically playing through an injury this year). Next year he’s Orpik without hitting and the year after he’s second go around Scuderi. Get something at the draft including more cap space. Time to play POJ. I’m not down on Petts, but he’s not going to be worth moving. Meaning we would not get cap space back.

Honestly, even if he’s heroically playing thru another ankle injury, that would be his third significant ankle/Achilles injury in the last four seasons or so…no thanks…ready to move on

 

[jmelm]

1. I don't know what they think, but I think POJ is a 3rd pairing dman who will need to be somewhat protected, at least until he shows otherwise.

2. My stance is I would take Dumo 10 times out of 10 over Petts. The only thing that would sway that is the returns. If you're telling me the returns are a wash, give me Dumo. Without question.

1) There's no question that *IF* this team plans on having POJ on the team next year, he will need to be protected, and playing with Ruh on the 3rd pairing is a perfect partner for him. I say "IF" because I don't know what Burke/Hextall/etc. truly think about POJ short, medium or long term. They may think he's a legit stud, or they may feel he's a fringe NHLer...I honestly have no idea. That said, I'm going to assume he can play 3rd pair LD next year because worst case if he struggles, we can rotate him and Friedman in and out of the lineup to bring POJ along (if there's the belief in him long term).

2) Regarding Dumo: I think everyone on this board and within the organization would take Dumo over Petts for THIS season and playoff run. But as the thread title suggests, looking beyond this year, I believe Pettersson has a much higher ceiling than he is showing now. I may be in the minority here, but I'm seen enough flashes, especially recently, where he's got a nice mix of different attributes that should make him a very good (and potentially excellent) #4 2nd pairing Dman. So if Petts can only improve and Dumo at best can plateau if he's not already in decline, trading Dumo is the most sensible option, even aside from the face I think we could get a decent return for him.

 

[pistolpete11]

1) There's no question that *IF* this team plans on having POJ on the team next year, he will need to be protected, and playing with Ruh on the 3rd pairing is a perfect partner for him. I say "IF" because I don't know what Burke/Hextall/etc. truly think about POJ short, medium or long term. They may think he's a legit stud, or they may feel he's a fringe NHLer...I honestly have no idea. That said, I'm going to assume he can play 3rd pair LD next year because worst case if he struggles, we can rotate him and Friedman in and out of the lineup to bring POJ along (if there's the belief in him long term).

2) Regarding Dumo: I think everyone on this board and within the organization would take Dumo over Petts for THIS season and playoff run. But as the thread title suggests, looking beyond this year, I believe Pettersson has a much higher ceiling than he is showing now. I may be in the minority here, but I'm seen enough flashes, especially recently, where he's got a nice mix of different attributes that should make him a very good (and potentially excellent) #4 2nd pairing Dman. So if Petts can only improve and Dumo at best can plateau if he's not already in decline, trading Dumo is the most sensible option, even aside from the face I think we could get a decent return for him.

The thread title says '22-'23. I'd take Dumo in '22-'23.

 

[DesertPenguin]

We are all in agreement though, I think, that one of Dumo, Petts or Matheson have to go. With Matheson looking like the second coming of Justin Schultz, adding a unique offensive element while slowly buffing out the dents in his defensive game, he should be safe.

3rd pair consisting of some combo of Friedman, Ruhwedel and POJ is fine, and will free up 4M to help re-sign Geno, Letang and Rust

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Acquire Chychrun.

 

[chethejet]

Dumo is somewhat dependent on Letang and his status. I move Petts as his 4 million is needed as Pens need a physical presence on the left side. Petts to the wings for a second is fine and use that space for a roster player like POJ if he can be that third pairing guy. Priorities are Letang, Rakell, Rust walks for best deal. Second center who can be a all around center if Malkin is gone.

 

[Jacob]

I think Kapanen and Dumo have positive value and we should trade at least one of them for assets (picks) and package those picks with Pets and Zucker to bribe a team to take them without us having to take salary back.

Then use that cap space to re-sign the good players like Rust & Rakell.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Acquire Chychrun.

He's injury prone, so he'd certainly fit in well as a Penguin.

 

[jmelm]

Acquire Chychrun.

No way do we even have close to the assets for this. We don’t have any legit high end blue chip prospects (and if Blomqvist is one at the goalie position, he’s not getting moved now that we moved Clang). And our 1st rounder will be in the 20’s.

There are plenty of other teams who can put together much better offers.

 

[jmelm]

For all the grief Pettersson has rightfully earned for his inconsistent (aka sometimes poor) play this season….

It’s now time to give this man some respect. His last few games in the regular season and, more importantly so far in these playoffs when the intensity has stepped up, Pettersson has been excellent.

I am very encouraged by what I’ve seen from him, especially in the playoffs. While Marino can be equally inconsistent, he’s also been good so far in the playoffs and I think we’re married to him (for the right or wrong reasons, or combo of both) and the fact that Marino and Petts form a decent pair together, that just emphasizes we should hang on to both of these guys absent an offer that’s too good to pass up.

But I think we’re well past the “dump Petts to get rid of his contract” stage. I would like to give him at least one more full year before arriving at that conclusion because I don’t believe his game has peaked yet, just because the vast majority of Dmen do not at that age.

 

[The Old Master]

We are all in agreement though, I think, that one of Dumo, Petts or Matheson have to go. With Matheson looking like the second coming of Justin Schultz, adding a unique offensive element while slowly buffing out the dents in his defensive game, he should be safe.

is he? or is it that he's playing against lesser players?