Proposal: DUCKS send one of [Larsson/Lindholm/Fowler/Mahura] to MTL

[CHaracter79]

I read that as A isn’t an A-. Maybe I’ve miss read the thread. He’s clearly not a B prospect so we can agree on that

A A- A+ what is this crap.

Grade A Prospect is someone who isnt in the NHL that can play top line minutes in future or is projected that way.

Grade B Prospect is someone who is seen as most likely playing a bottom 6 or bottom 3 on D.

Draft position has nothing to do with it.

Poehling in his draft year, as a 17 year old had 13 points in 30 games in COLLEGE. as an 18 year old he had the same stats as Middlestadt. the same exact as an 18 year old. one is a top prospect and the other is a B?

stop rating players because you hate the habs.. Suzuki is a grade A prospect and has been for 2 years.

4th in scoring in the O last year... tearing it up again on a crap team he just turned 19... the leader of the team is 21 in 3 months. not the same. he was underage when he got drafted and just turned 19 in his second year post draft.

 

[Randy Randerson]

a Grade A Prospect is a player that isnt in the NHL that has the potential to play top 6 up front or top 3 on D.

Players that are 18 or 19 that are already playing in the nhl ARE NO LONGER PROSPECTS they are NHLERS.... Dahlin Kotkaniemi.. etc.. are not PROSPECTS.. they are NHLERS.

POEHLING ANDS SUZUKI are GRADE A PROSPECTS

people look at Draft Position and assume top 5-8 are GRADE A ... or soemthign dumb like that..

IF

I think that scale leaves a lot of grey area because it doesn't account for likely outcomes/risk. For example, Bracco is a potential top line winger but has a much higher chance of never playing in the NHL than hitting his potential, I wouldn't want to call Bracco an A prospect

disagree on the "if they're playing in the NHL" part too, the league has a definition of prospect that there's no real need to change and there's still a ton of unknown for teenagers playing in the league. Like Pierre Luc Dubois's outlook is a hell of a lot better today than it was a year ago and he was in the NHL then

 

[CHaracter79]

Toronto, ON – The Canadian Hockey League in association with National Hockey League Central Scouting announce today the 40 players that will compete in the 2019 Sherwin-Williams CHL/NHL Top Prospects Game.
The 24th annual showcase of the CHL’s top prospects eligible for the NHL Draft will be played on Wednesday January 23, 2019, at the ENMAX Centrium, home of the Western Hockey League’s Red Deer Rebels. The 40 competing players were chosen by NHL clubs and include talent from across the WHL, the Ontario Hockey League, and Quebec Major Junior Hockey League.
“The Sherwin-Williams CHL/NHL Top Prospects Game provides scouts and general managers the unique opportunity to evaluate talent competing in a best-on-best showcase,” said Dan Marr, NHL Central Scouting Director. “All 31 NHL clubs contributed to the roster selection and have a great interest in this priority scouting event to see which players can elevate their game under the spotlight.”
Headlining the talent in Alberta will be 11 CHL players identified by NHL Central Scouting as potential first round candidates in their November ‘Players to Watch’ list. Six of those players hail from WHL clubs including forwards Dylan Cozens of the Lethbridge Hurricanes, Kirby Dach of the Saskatoon Blades, Nolan Foote of the Kelowna Rockets, and Peyton Krebs of the Kootenay ICE, along with defencemen Bowen Byram of the Vancouver Giants, and Matthew Robertson of the Edmonton Oil Kings. ADDITIONAL A RATED PLAYERS COMPETING IN THE EVENT INCLUDE OHL forwards Arthur Kaliyev of the Hamilton Bulldogs and Ryan Suzuki of the Barrie Colts, defenceman Vladislav Kolyachonok of the Flint Firebirds, plus QMJHL forwards Raphael Lavoie of the Halifax Mooseheads and Samuel Poulin of the Sherbrooke Phoenix.
33 of the CHL’s 60 member clubs will be represented in the game with a total of 16 WHL players from 12 different teams, 15 OHL players from 12 teams, and nine QMJHL players each from a different organization. Kelowna leads the way with three players selected followed by the London Knights, Medicine Hat Tigers, Ottawa 67’s, Peterborough Petes, and Seattle Thunderbirds each with two. The host Rebels will be represented in the game by forward Oleg Zaytsev.
2019 Sherwin-Williams CHL/NHL Top Prospects Game Roster:
Goaltenders:
Colten Ellis (Rimouski Océanic)
Taylor Gauthier (Prince George Cougars)
Hunter Jones (Peterborough Petes)
Mads Sogaard (Medicine Hat Tigers)

Defencemen:
Samuel Bolduc (Blainville-Boisbriand Armada)
Bowen Byram (Vancouver Giants)
Billy Constantinou (Kingston Frontenacs)
Thomas Harley (Mississauga Steelheads)
Artemi Kniazev (Chicoutimi Saguenéens)
Vladislav Kolyachonok (Flint Firebirds)
Kaedan Korczak (Kelowna Rockets)
Jake Lee (Seattle Thunderbirds)
Nikita Okhotyuk (Ottawa 67’s)
Matthew Robertson (Edmonton Oil Kings)
Lassi Thomson (Kelowna Rockets)
Michael Vukojevic (Kitchener Rangers)

Forwards:
Nikita Alexandrov (Charlottetown Islanders)
Maxim Cajkovic (Saint John Sea Dogs)
Joe Carroll (Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds)
Graeme Clarke (Ottawa 67’s)
Dylan Cozens (Lethbridge Hurricanes)
Kirby Dach (Saskatoon Blades)
Nolan Foote (Kelowna Rockets)
Matvey Guskov (London Knights)
Dillon Hamaliuk (Seattle Thunderbirds)
Arthur Kaliyev (Hamilton Bulldogs)
Peyton Krebs (Kootenay ICE)
Raphaël Lavoie (Halifax Mooseheads)
Brett Leason (Prince Albert Raiders)
Nathan Légaré (Baie-Comeau Drakkar)
Connor McMichael (London Knights)
Sasha Mutala (Tri-City Americans)
Jakob Pelletier (Moncton Wildcats)
Samuel Poulin (Sherbrooke Phoenix)
Jamieson Rees (Sarnia Sting)
Nick Robertson (Peterborough Petes)
Ryan Suzuki (Barrie Colts)
Philip Tomasino (Niagara IceDogs)
Josh Williams (Medicine Hat Tigers)
Oleg Zaytsev (Red Deer Rebels)

Check out the line that says,
ADDITIONAL A RATED PLAYERS COMPETING IN THE EVENT INCLUDE OHL forwards Arthur Kaliyev of the Hamilton Bulldogs and Ryan Suzuki of the Barrie Colts, etc...

you realize that none of these PROSPECTS belong to teams.... they are undrafted prospects... not prospects that belong to teams of the NHL

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

He’s not even leading his team in scoring

Do you even watched one game ? Why are clueless people answering a thread on OUR prospects ? If your not a f***s fans and you are here to annoy us, please move on

 

[CHaracter79]

I think that scale leaves a lot of grey area because it doesn't account for likely outcomes/risk. For example, Bracco is a potential top line winger but has a much higher chance of never playing in the NHL than hitting his potential, I wouldn't want to call Bracco an A prospect

disagree on the "if they're playing in the NHL" part too, the league has a definition of prospect that there's no real need to change and there's still a ton of unknown for teenagers playing in the league. Like Pierre Luc Dubois's outlook is a hell of a lot better today than it was a year ago and he was in the NHL then

Dahlin is not a grade A Prospect... he is an nhler and will have a mega career...

Prospects belong for kids that havent established themselves in the big leagues.

and there arent 26 types...


you can either be more a 1st 2nd liner.... or a 3rd 4th liner... when it comes to forwards...

or on D... its either top pairing/3D or bottom pairing kind..

players that fall in neither of these categories and are not in the NHL are not prospects at all..

if you are a potnetial top line player like you say Bracco is... but you have more chance of never playing in the NHL... you are not a top prospect.. and you dont really have top line potential...


A prospects have top line potential.. sometimes end up as middle 6ers.

B Prospects rarely go up to top lines.. can.. but rare.. and can also not become NHLERS...

its not much more then that...

as for guys like PLD... he was a GRADE A prospect when he got drafted but before he turned 20 had a 50 point season last year.. im pretty sure he isnt just a prospect anymore.. he plays ont he top 2 lines in CBJ.

players like that rarely get traded..

and if they do.. its rarely for prospects.. mostly for nhlers..

like seth jones for RyJo

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

I don't really think the two teams are good trade partners. The Ducks don't have the depth on defence that they used to and I don't think the Habs have what the Duck need, which is a #2C.

We do, and you have 4 amazing D on the LHD..

Poehling and suzuki are seen as #2 with a #1 ceiling

 

[CHaracter79]

the Bergevin quote on that was pretty vague, ended in "and this and that", so you're missing some major components of that basis

I've followed Poehling, but he's not producing at any sort of historic clip in college, a good pace but not what a guy like Borgstrom has done, for example. He was super unknown at his draft and people were excited about his tools. That's still sort of true, he could blow up if he hits the AHL next year and goes pt/game, or he could shrink away if he goes .5ppg

Borgstrom played College for U of D after he got drafted.. his first game was as a 19 year old. at slightly above a PPG

Poehling started as a 17 year old. his first game as a 19 year old.. was last january... from that day and on... ( he is still 19) he has 34 points in 32 games. 1.07 PPG

so technically they have producing at the exact same rate in college. Only that Borg has produced at a 1.3 PPG rate.. but thats only after he turned 20. Poehling hasnt turned 20 yet..

how well have you been following him?

 

[CHaracter79]

We do, and you have 4 amazing D on the LHD..

Poehling and suzuki are seen as #2 with a #1 ceiling

No cuz they play for MONTREAL.

come on man...

 

[Randy Randerson]

Dahlin is not a grade A Prospect... he is an nhler and will have a mega career...

Prospects belong for kids that havent established themselves in the big leagues.

and there arent 26 types...


you can either be more a 1st 2nd liner.... or a 3rd 4th liner... when it comes to forwards...

or on D... its either top pairing/3D or bottom pairing kind..

players that fall in neither of these categories and are not in the NHL are not prospects at all..

if you are a potnetial top line player like you say Bracco is... but you have more chance of never playing in the NHL... you are not a top prospect.. and you dont really have top line potential...


A prospects have top line potential.. sometimes end up as middle 6ers.

B Prospects rarely go up to top lines.. can.. but rare.. and can also not become NHLERS...

its not much more then that...

as for guys like PLD... he was a GRADE A prospect when he got drafted but before he turned 20 had a 50 point season last year.. im pretty sure he isnt just a prospect anymore.. he plays ont he top 2 lines in CBJ.

players like that rarely get traded..

and if they do.. its rarely for prospects.. mostly for nhlers..

like seth jones for RyJo

they've all got to start somewhere, Dahlin's still a prospect. He's a good bet to be a perennial Norris candidate, but there's still an element of risk and a spectrum of possible outcomes in terms of the level of player he becomes. That gets more true as you move down in quality of prospects, Dahlin is close to as good as prospects get and those have historically been the most predictable kind of prospects. The bell curve of outcomes grows when you move down in levels

the original Hockeys Future had a good grading system, a 1 to 10 number system for potential and an A to D (I think) letter system for risk with a fairly defined tier for each number and a fairly defined scale for how far a player could fall depending on their letter grade

so:
Dahlin - 9.5B - high ceiling, very safe floor
PLD - 8.0B - 1st line ceiling, still a safe floor
Bracco - 8.0D - 1st line ceiling, really low floor

we should have a system like that if we're going to argue over classifications because we end up meaning the same thing and titling it differently

Borgstrom played College for U of D after he got drafted.. his first game was as a 19 year old. at slightly above a PPG

Poehling started as a 17 year old. his first game as a 19 year old.. was last january... from that day and on... ( he is still 19) he has 34 points in 32 games. 1.07 PPG

so technically they have producing at the exact same rate in college. Only that Borg has produced at a 1.3 PPG rate.. but thats only after he turned 20. Poehling hasnt turned 20 yet..

how well have you been following him?

well enough. I haven't argued that Poehling has done poorly, only that he's not a known quantity. If you had the choice that Poehling produced at the rates that Borgstrom has at the same age for the next 2 years, would you take it? If the answer is yes, then you place some value on knowing versus not knowing, and no one knows with Poehling yet. (ie. if you could pre-determine that Poehling was going to put up 52pts in 40 games next year in the same league, its an awkward question to phrase)

 

[ESH]

Ya hes behind a guy that is only tied for 3rd in the entire league for ppg. I'm surprised Hancock even managed to get any points playing with that scrub Suzuki.

Good one? I don’t get it

Do you even watched one game ? Why are clueless people answering a thread on OUR prospects ? If your not a ****s fans and you are here to annoy us, please move on

Imagine getting that angry over a post on a message board. If he’s “carrying his team and the OHL” (whatever that means), maybe explain how rather than replying with nothing of substance.

 

[CHaracter79]

lets just say that Dahlin and PLD are NHLERS.. they kind of stop being prospects.

someone playin 25 mins per game on D or getting 50 pts as a 19 year old should really be called prospects.

thats my point.

Bracco was an 80 point player in junior and bracco will be 22 this year. he might make it.. but we dotn know that... his prospect status falls to be.

Suzuki is a 100pt player... is 19 and has tons of potential. his prospect status is an A because he hasnt turned 20 yet and is dominant in his age group.

 

[CHaracter79]

lets just say that Dahlin and PLD are NHLERS.. they kind of stop being prospects.

someone playin 25 mins per game on D or getting 50 pts as a 19 year old should really be called prospects.

thats my point.

Bracco was an 80 point player in junior and bracco will be 22 this year. he might make it.. but we dotn know that... his prospect status falls to be.

Suzuki is a 100pt player... is 19 and has tons of potential. his prospect status is an A because he hasnt turned 20 yet and is dominant in his age group.

 

[ole ole]

Do not know why I am reading this thread, but:
1. Ryan Suzuki =/= Nick Suzuki
2. "A" rating refers to Central Scouting rating system for preliminary ratings issued at the beginning of the year, where I believe A grade is given to a prospect expected to go in the 1st round of upcoming draft.

Ya got the names mixed up.

 

[CHaracter79]

Good one? I don’t get it



Imagine getting that angry over a post on a message board. If he’s “carrying his team and the OHL” (whatever that means), maybe explain how rather than replying with nothing of substance.

he used sarcasm that didnt come off right.. basically someone brought up that he isnt leading his team in scoring when the player that is.. is directly feeding off Suzuki's play and is also 17 months older then Suzuki. which make a huge difference at that age

he is also top in the O, plays on a bad team and has played around 3 or 4 games less then most players above him in points. his advance stats are nuts too

 

[ole ole]

I don't get why you posted this

Again i the the first names mixed up. My bad.

 

[Randy Randerson]

lets just say that Dahlin and PLD are NHLERS.. they kind of stop being prospects.

someone playin 25 mins per game on D or getting 50 pts as a 19 year old should really be called prospects.

thats my point.

Bracco was an 80 point player in junior and bracco will be 22 this year. he might make it.. but we dotn know that... his prospect status falls to be.

Suzuki is a 100pt player... is 19 and has tons of potential. his prospect status is an A because he hasnt turned 20 yet and is dominant in his age group.

agree on PLD, not on Dahlin. He's played 31 games, it's not completely out of the question that he'll struggle at some point, and he's about as sure a bet as it gets so applying the same rule to other prospects is going to get hairy. I do agree that it's highly likely that Dahlin is an NHL'er for the duration, but there's 5 guys from last year's 1st line with NHL time already and I think you'll get a false read if you apply that same rule to them

that was my point with Bracco, he's still very similar in projection now to what he was at the draft - a high upside, low probability lottery ticket. So if we classify prospects only by their potential, he looks better in that classification system than he should

 

[CHaracter79]

well enough. I haven't argued that Poehling has done poorly, only that he's not a known quantity. If you had the choice that Poehling produced at the rates that Borgstrom has at the same age for the next 2 years, would you take it? If the answer is yes, then you place some value on knowing versus not knowing, and no one knows with Poehling yet. (ie. if you could pre-determine that Poehling was going to put up 52pts in 40 games next year in the same league, its an awkward question to phrase)

you said he hasnt produced like soemone like Borgstrom.. and im telling you he has matched him so far in college. he is well on his way to being above aPPG player this season.. which would be his 20 year old age starting in jan.. so he is right on track.. we already know he can produce at that rate at 19. you said he hasnt produce like Borgstrom... which he has.. and its for reasons like this that he isnt a grade A prospect.. and i just showed you that he has produced as much if not more.. because should he get 4 points in his next 2 games.... he is actually ahead of borgstrom in his 19th year...

becuase he isnt known to you, that doesnt make him a 'unknown quantity'.. he is just an 'unknown quantity' to you.

trust me he is a Grade A prospect. a 19 year old playing on the top line on the top 3 team in college and leading them in scoring as a C.. is grade A stuff.

 

[CHaracter79]

agree on PLD, not on Dahlin. He's played 31 games, it's not completely out of the question that he'll struggle at some point, and he's about as sure a bet as it gets so applying the same rule to other prospects is going to get hairy. I do agree that it's highly likely that Dahlin is an NHL'er for the duration, but there's 5 guys from last year's 1st line with NHL time already and I think you'll get a false read if you apply that same rule to them

that was my point with Bracco, he's still very similar in projection now to what he was at the draft - a high upside, low probability lottery ticket. So if we classify prospects only by their potential, he looks better in that classification system than he should

well watching Dahlin play, seein him with my own eyes, reading his stats and seeing his advanace stats.. he is no longer a prospect. nor would i call him one. nor is he seen as one.. he is a star young player. already. you kind of lose the prospect tag and gain a star tag. doesnt mean the star will always shine.. but that where he is...

 

[Randy Randerson]

you said he hasnt produced like soemone like Borgstrom.. and im telling you he has matched him so far in college. he is well on his way to being above aPPG player this season.. which would be his 20 year old age starting in jan.. so he is right on track.. we already know he can produce at that rate at 19. you said he hasnt produce like Borgstrom... which he has.. and its for reasons like this that he isnt a grade A prospect.. and i just showed you that he has produced as much if not more.. because should he get 4 points in his next 2 games.... he is actually ahead of borgstrom in his 19th year...

becuase he isnt known to you, that doesnt make him a 'unknown quantity'.. he is just an 'unknown quantity' to you.

trust me he is a Grade A prospect. a 19 year old playing on the top line on the top 3 team in college and leading them in scoring as a C.. is grade A stuff.

his body of work is decent to this point, but it's not of a level that projects him to be a special talent and he's playing in a league that's not an NHL player factory so there's lots of guesswork left with him

unless you have a crystal ball or a time machine, he's also unknown to you. If that's not true, can you tell me if he matches Borgstrom's 20yo year in the same league?

on the HF grading system:
Suzuki - 8.0B
Poehling - 8.0C - more risk

well watching Dahlin play, seein him with my own eyes, reading his stats and seeing his advanace stats.. he is no longer a prospect. nor would i call him one. nor is he seen as one.. he is a star young player. already. you kind of lose the prospect tag and gain a star tag. doesnt mean the star will always shine.. but that where he is...

this started as a general rule that "players in the NHL aren't prospects" or something to that effect. I do agree on Dahlin, but he's such a rare young player that applying the same rule as the standard won't work even if it does in his case. That's my point, I agree that Dahlin is in the NHL to stay even if he fits the league's definition of a prospect, and would have said the same for McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, and probably will for Hughes, Lafreniere, Savoie, etc

 

[Hockey Stick]

I don'T understand how people cannot rank Suzuki a A rank prospect.... he is carrying his team and the OHL

After the world juniors theres going to be so many proposals with him in it because people will understand how good he is

 

[crowi]

While you guys argue what prospect rating is A, A-, A+, B, Z- and so on, Ducks don't really have the depth to make a trade like this anymore.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Which one of your LHD is open for a trade to Mtl ? They are all formidable piece Montreal would gladly trade for.

Top 6 winger for one of them ?
Grade A prospect ? like Poehling or Suzuki ?

Would like to know what the Ducks are open to trade.

Montreal doesn't have the pieces for Lindholm, And fat chance of Fowler waiving there. Since he has a 4 team trade list and Canadien teams aren't on it.

 

[Spazkat]

Holy hell people are touchy about how other people rank their prospects. <There is a prospect forum for all of these random prospect ranking arguments btw>

That said, I don't see anything here that would interest the Ducks. They've traded off enough D that they're thin- if one goes at all I assume its for a player that con contribute now and not a mystery box

 

[780il]

Don't act like Suzuki and Poehling aren't solid prospects though. They're not top 5 pick calibre players but they're very good prospects.

I like Suzuki, solid prospect

Never liked Poehling though

 

[ottawa]

I like Suzuki, solid prospect

Never liked Poehling though

That settles it everyone, Poehling isn't a good prospect because 78oil doesn't like him.

Warning to future prospects: don't get on 78oil's naughty list.