Dubas appreciation thread

[ShaneFalco]

T

This. "winninga round" has become so laughably overrated as an achievemnt. Habs made the playoffs because of a fluke last year.

So you'd be ok with the Leafs going out in the first round again? Because they played good teams!?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

No team ever has ample capspace to waste $6m like that.

That contract was one of the key reasons the leafs wasted those elite ELC core years.

You initially praised the signing and said it gives the leafs the size and grit they needed.

Also, 27 goals isn't "a waste".

I do think that third year was horrible, and that's on Lou. And I think Dubas was a wizard for finding a way to get rid of it.

 

[zeke]

So you'd be ok with the Leafs going out in the first round again? Because they played good teams!?

Are you going to be happy if they beat the Oilers in round 1 and then lost round 2, just because they "showed they can win in the playoffs"?

 

[RogerR]

So you'd be ok with the Leafs going out in the first round again? Because they played good teams!?

No I would not. That doesn't change my opinion that this sudden shift to thgking winning a first round and basing so much on it is ridiculous.

 

[RogerR]

Are you going to be happy if they beat the Oilers in round 1 and then lost round 2, just because they "showed they can win in the playoffs"?

And it will mean nothing to anyone if they did that,

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Are you going to be happy if they beat the Oilers in round 1 and then lost round 2, just because they "showed they can win in the playoffs"?

I personally would be disappointed in a 2nd round loss. But it would finally be a step forward.

If the leafs still can't find a way to win a single round, then it would be indicative of a compete problem with the core.

 

[RogerR]

A team just 2 years ago won the cup after missing the playoffs but the Leafs have to "win a Round" first to be considrred a threat...

 

[RogerR]

Yup. Stay away from paying 6+ to a late 30's regressimng guy. I'm always surprised people had less issue with that cap hit than to our young stars

 

[Twine Tickler]

I think we put way too much emphasis in our lack of playoff success with this core.

1st year with core - 8th seed losing to presidents trophy winning Capitals. Essentially the same team that won the cup a year later.

2nd year with core- 105 pt regular season, only to have to play a 112 pt Boston team in round 1....without home ice advantage. Got largely outplayed by a better team, lost in 7

3rd year with core- 100 pt season, Again had to play a 107pt Boston in round 1, again without home ice advantage. Outplayed the Bruins, lost in a coin flip game 7. Bruins went onward to cup finals

4th year with core - Lost in round 1 of the play in against CBJ. putting 188 SOG in the 5 games played, and scoring only 9 goals in those 5 games. combined save percentage of the 2 CBJ goalies was .952!! not to mention 2 of CBJ's wins were via the shutout. Absolutely stupid numbers, from goalies that played out of their minds. In a shortened 5 game series.

I can get behind the idea that this team needs to win in the playoffs, but they haven't had the best of circumstance by any means. We can be critical all we want, and say we need to elevate in the same fashion that the teams that have beat us did. But at the end of the day, we lost 4 times to teams that would have beat 95% of league in those series. It was hardly like this group didn't show up. As @zeke mentioned, our core players have shown up in the playoffs. As has Freddy. With the exception being the 2nd year with this core. We got beat by teams that performed at a very high level

I really don't care about the lack of playoff success from years past. New year, new challenge, same ultimate goal.

 

[zeke]

I personally would be disappointed in a 2nd round loss. But it would finally be a step forward.

If the leafs still can't find a way to win a single round, then it would be indicative of a compete problem with the core.

would beating, say, the oilers in round 1 and losing to, say, the jets in round 2 actually be a step forward from battling teams like WSH and BOS to the limit?

I don't think it would be. I think it'd be a step back.

 

[RogerR]

I think we put way too much emphasis in our lack of playoff success with this core.

1st year with core - 8th seed losing to presidents trophy winning Capitals. Essentially the same team that won the cup a year later.

2nd year with core- 105 pt regular season, only to have to play a 112 pt Boston team in round 1....without home ice advantage. Got largely outplayed by a better team, lost in 7

3rd year with core- 100 pt season, Again had to play a 107pt Boston in round 1, again without home ice advantage. Outplayed the Bruins, lost in a coin flip game 7. Bruins went onward to cup finals

4th year with core - Lost in round 1 of the play in against CBJ. putting 188 SOG in the 5 games played, and scoring only 9 goals in those 5 games. combined save percentage of the 2 CBJ goalies was .952!! not to mention 2 of CBJ's wins were via the shutout. Absolutely stupid numbers, from goalies that played out of their minds. In a shortened 5 game series.

I can get behind the idea that this team needs to win in the playoffs, but they haven't had the best of circumstance by any means. We can be critical all we want, and say we need to elevate in the same fashion that the teams that have beat us did. But at the end of the day, we lost 4 times to teams that would have beat 95% of league in those series. It was hardly like this group didn't show up. As @zeke mentioned, our core players have shown up in the playoffs. As has Freddy. With the exception being the 2nd year with this core. We got beat by teams that performed at a very high level

I really don't care about the lack of playoff success from years past. New year, new challenge, same ultimate goal.

This.

 

[RogerR]

would beating, say, the oilers in round 1 and losing to, say, the jets in round 2 actually be a step forward from battling teams like WSH and BOS to the limit?

I don't think it would be. I think it'd be a step back.

Same here. Issue is no one puts actual analysis into these losses. It really highly depends on matchups and circumstances.

 

[Gary Nylund]

caring overmuch just about a playoffs "win" or two is how teams like Montreal and Vancouver get way overhyped and make many resulting poor decisions.

They need to win. That doesn't mean they need to make bad decisions if they don't win but they need to win at some point. And if you lose year after year after year after year, then there comes a point when breaking up the core isn't a mistake, it's the only reasonable course of action. I'm not saying were there yet but if we don't win a round this season then you have to at least think about it and if we keep it together and don't win a round again next year, I'd be shocked if they kept the core together.

At some point ... they gotta win.

Overall Dubas has been very good. His biggest mistake was overpaying Marner but the way he's playing, that mistake is looking smaller all the time (and it was never THAT big to begin with). He has sometimes said things when keeping his mouth shut was a better option so there is that but not that big a deal. As for all the other stuff people complain about, trading Kadri or choosing the wrong backup, I'm fine with all of it. Hindsight is cool but nobody can see the future and win every trade.

Overall, I'm not sure I see a reason not to give him an A for his work so far. B+ is the absolute minimum but I'm leaning towards giving him an A.

 

[zeke]

They need to win.

They need to win a cup.

Beating some mediocre team in a round won't impress me anymore than those series against WSH and BOS, and could well impress me less.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Just that third year. I'm perfectly fine with the contract otherwise. The leafs had ample cap space as the "young core" were all under elc's.

But that money could have been spent during those two years on something that helped the Leafs way more than Marleau.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I've always been of the opinion your cap spending should roughly reflect the positions you have to fill. While I realize there's an extra player in there, I look at it as 12 F, 6 D, 2 G or 20 players. With a cap hit of say $81.5, you distribute roughly 60% to forwards (49 M), 30% to D ($24.5 M) and 10% to G ($8 M). Now you can add some +/- factors depending where your strengths are but if you work within those rough parameters, I could care less if it is heavy to a few so long as you are getting bang for your buck (no bad contracts).

We are at 53 on 13 forwards, 20.4 on 7 D and 6.6 on 2 G. Granted this stuff changes based on injuries and such.

Personally I have never been a fan of huge contracts on D (prefer D by committee) or in G (because the position is highly unpredictable).

 

[Twine Tickler]

Overall Dubas has been very good. His biggest mistake was overpaying Marner

I think the 1 mistake KD made was signing JT. It caused a domino effect of overpayment with the negotiation of Willy, Mitch, and Auston unfortunately. JT has been largely great for us, but it did set an internal cap structure that was hard to maneuver around in post. The cap structure would be vastly different had he not signed. on the flip side, our team would be missing a superstar though had he not signed JT. What I will say, and have said all along is that despite overpaying the top tier players, he has rounded out the roster quite well year over year. To me, I'd much rather have JT at 11 million than say a combo of Tyler Myers (6 million) and JVR (7 Million). I think what gives KD haters fuel is that he has constructed the roster in a non-traditional way in terms of cap. And to this point no one has won structuring their cap in this fashion. That said, no one other than the Leafs have tried it. So of course it hasn't worked before. We have VERY VERY good players making a lot of money, vs a lot of average player making ok to good money. I think I'd rather our situation over 90% of the league at this point

 

[Teeder Keon]

I think the 1 mistake KD made was signing JT. It caused a domino effect of overpayment with the negotiation of Willy, Mitch, and Auston unfortunately. JT has been largely great for us, but it did set an internal cap structure that was hard to maneuver around in post. The cap structure would be vastly different had he not signed. on the flip side, our team would be missing a superstar though had he not signed JT. What I will say, and have said all along is that despite overpaying the top tier players, he has rounded out the roster quite well year over year. To me, I'd much rather have JT at 11 million than say a combo of Tyler Myers (6 million) and JVR (7 Million). I think what gives KD haters fuel is that he has constructed the roster in a non-traditional way in terms of cap. And to this point no one has won structuring their cap in this fashion. That said, no one other than the Leafs have tried it. So of course it hasn't worked before. We have VERY VERY good players making a lot of money, vs a lot of average player making ok to good money. I think I'd rather our situation over 90% of the league at this point

I begrudgingly agree with with your take on the JT signing , maybe if we waited a couple more years we would have obtained his services fir a lot less and still get his leadership qualities and experience as a 3rd line centre.
I was for us signing him , but I was wrong
I still like him as a player but not as a top 6

 

[Gary Nylund]

They need to win a cup.

Beating some mediocre team in a round won't impress me anymore than those series against WSH and BOS, and could well impress me less.

I get what you're saying but it's not as black and white as all that. If they don't win a round here and there, they won't be kept together long enough to have a shot at the cup (no matter how impressed you might be).

 

[RogerR]

I

I get what you're saying but it's not as black and white as all that. If they don't win a round here and there, they won't be kept together long enough to have a shot at the cup (no matter how impressed you might be).

don't see Dubas rushing any trades of this core at all.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

They need to win a cup.

Beating some mediocre team in a round won't impress me anymore than those series against WSH and BOS, and could well impress me less.

What about losing to a mediocre team in the first round. At what point would this be a "core" problem, and not a new random scapegoat every season?

I hear the term "wasted elc years" thrown around here a lot. At what point should we be concerned about wasted "prime" years?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I

don't see Dubas rushing any trades of this core at all.

Why would he?

 

[RogerR]

Why would he?

No reason at all.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Signing John Tavares was not a mistake. I remember the entire board agreeing with the signing. It’s a great signing then and it’s still a great signing even with JT struggling to score lately. Tavares needs to enjoy the success more and quit pressuring himself is what i think. He is wound tighter than a fiddle string ha

 

[Notsince67]

If the leafs won the cup, would committing 34 mm ish bucks to 3 forwards be in style given its success rate would be 50%?