Dream, but as realistic as possible, 2016 Flames lineup?

[Sparky93]

Glencross - Monahan - Hudler
Raymond - Eichel - Colborne
Gaudreau - Stajan - Ritchie
Bouma - Knight - Bollig

Brodie - Stone
Giordano - Sproul
Wotherspoon - Engelland

Out - Backlund, Wideman, Russell, Smid, Sven and Granlund
In - Sproul, Ritchie, Stone, picks and prospects
Next wave in the wings - Bennett, Poirier, Klimchuk, Reinhart, Smith and what ever we pick up along the way.

 

[Yung Rotini]

Glencross - Monahan - Hudler
Raymond - Eichel - Colborne
Gaudreau - Stajan - Ritchie
Bouma - Knight - Bollig

Brodie - Stone
Giordano - Sproul
Wotherspoon - Engelland

Out - Backlund, Wideman, Russell, Smid, Sven and Granlund
In - Sproul, Ritchie, Stone, picks and prospects
Next wave in the wings - Bennett, Poirier, Klimchuk, Reinhart, Smith and what ever we pick up along the way.

I really doubt these happen

 

[FLAMESFAN]

They traded for him.
They had guys like Jackman & Cole.

So, for example, the people who are so worried about our defence... they drafted a couple okay pieces and one #1 defender; then traded to fill in their top 4. Tada. Let's not trade all our prospect for D for once

Wouldn't your example (the Blues) be a reason for trading to get an extra top 4 Dman? No one is saying we need to trade all our prospects, just that a trade will most likely have to be made.

Also while the Blues were busy drafting Pietrangelo & E Johnson we were drafting Leland Irving & Greg Nemisz. Their D corps is riddled with early to mid first rounders. Kind of unrealistic to expect our guys to have the same impact as theirs.

 

[Volica]

Wouldn't your example (the Blues) be a reason for trading to get an extra top 4 Dman? No one is saying we need to trade all our prospects, just that a trade will most likely have to be made.

Also while the Blues were busy drafting Pietrangelo & E Johnson we were drafting Leland Irving & Greg Nemisz. Their D corps is riddled with early to mid first rounders. Kind of unrealistic to expect our guys to have the same impact as theirs.

Unfortunately, Calgary's only had the pleasure of picking in the top 5 once. Ever.
St Louis has the opportunity to load up with the first overall and the 4th overall to get E. Johnson and Pieterangelo. You can't really compare Nemo and Irving's draft positions to those two; at all.

Guys like Ian Cole and Barrett Jackman were mid first rounders; and in Jackman's case, this was a bit before the science of drafting league wide.

People also forget that the Blues were 'rebuilding' for a few years until they became a power house in the West. They're a prime example of being patient and trading when necessary.

They didn't trade for Shattenkirk or Bouwmeester in the second year of their rebuild. They went ahead and got Shattenkirk when they thought EJ was a flop; and they got Bouwmeester when they were on the cusp of being a cup favorite. So why are people already wanting to trade Sven for some defensive prospect help? St. Louis took a lot of years and high draft picks putting that defence together; we haven't had that luxury yet.

 

[Lunatik]

Unfortunately, Calgary's only had the pleasure of picking in the top 5 once. Ever.
St Louis has the opportunity to load up with the first overall and the 4th overall to get E. Johnson and Pieterangelo. You can't really compare Nemo and Irving's draft positions to those two; at all.

Guys like Ian Cole and Barrett Jackman were mid first rounders; and in Jackman's case, this was a bit before the science of drafting league wide.

People also forget that the Blues were 'rebuilding' for a few years until they became a power house in the West. They're a prime example of being patient and trading when necessary.

They didn't trade for Shattenkirk or Bouwmeester in the second year of their rebuild. They went ahead and got Shattenkirk when they thought EJ was a flop; and they got Bouwmeester when they were on the cusp of being a cup favorite. So why are people already wanting to trade Sven for some defensive prospect help? St. Louis took a lot of years and high draft picks putting that defence together; we haven't had that luxury yet.

This cannot be ignored. I don't agree with Volica too often, but he is bang on here.

There was simply not a high end defenseman in the spots the Flames were picking in the first round. And if people want to say we need defensemen because they take longer to develop, I would point out that goaltenders (Mason McDonald) and power forwards (Hunter Smith) take just as long or longer than defensemen to develop.

We also have a bit of a head start on the blueline with having a bit of a gem in Brodie and Wotherspoon looking quite good so far.

The is also a chip no one is talking about, that no Flames fan wants to consider. What if Giordano isn't going to re-sign when his contract is up? I would want to start negotiations the moment the 14/15 ends and if it looks like it is going to be a tough road I would move him at the 2015 entry draft, he would easily return a very good pick and/or an excellent prospect. With a deep draft that appears to have a decent number of solid defensemen available in the first round that could be the ticket.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

This cannot be ignored. I don't agree with Volica too often, but he is bang on here.

There was simply not a high end defenseman in the spots the Flames were picking in the first round. And if people want to say we need defensemen because they take longer to develop, I would point out that goaltenders (Mason McDonald) and power forwards (Hunter Smith) take just as long or longer than defensemen to develop.

We also have a bit of a head start on the blueline with having a bit of a gem in Brodie and Wotherspoon looking quite good so far.

The is also a chip no one is talking about, that no Flames fan wants to consider. What if Giordano isn't going to re-sign when his contract is up? I would want to start negotiations the moment the 14/15 ends and if it looks like it is going to be a tough road I would move him at the 2015 entry draft, he would easily return a very good pick and/or an excellent prospect. With a deep draft that appears to have a decent number of solid defensemen available in the first round that could be the ticket.

Bang on. In no way do I want to move Gio, and personally I don't think he has any intention on doing so. I think he loves his role here and quite frankly it just fits his career path to this point, he's been an underdog type of guy and he's the perfect captain for the Flames. That's my opinion though, which means jack, and he could very well want a shot at a Cup. If that's the case, you have no choice but to move him and at the draft next year would be the ideal time.

 

[CraigsList]

The Flames don't really need to address the defenseman situation until the 2015 season and draft is over, especially if they didn't pick one in the draft (primarily the first 2,3 rounds where you have a better shot at an NHLer).

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Unfortunately, Calgary's only had the pleasure of picking in the top 5 once. Ever.
St Louis has the opportunity to load up with the first overall and the 4th overall to get E. Johnson and Pieterangelo. You can't really compare Nemo and Irving's draft positions to those two; at all.

Guys like Ian Cole and Barrett Jackman were mid first rounders; and in Jackman's case, this was a bit before the science of drafting league wide.

People also forget that the Blues were 'rebuilding' for a few years until they became a power house in the West. They're a prime example of being patient and trading when necessary.

They didn't trade for Shattenkirk or Bouwmeester in the second year of their rebuild. They went ahead and got Shattenkirk when they thought EJ was a flop; and they got Bouwmeester when they were on the cusp of being a cup favorite. So why are people already wanting to trade Sven for some defensive prospect help? St. Louis took a lot of years and high draft picks putting that defence together; we haven't had that luxury yet.

I agree with what you are saying, but this is the part that is open to interpretation - for some people it's earlier than others. Do you want to be paying a 1st & a prospect when we are cup contenders, or just a prospect now?
There are teams out there that have quality Dmen with a lot of top 4 promise who are buried down the depth charts. If we aren't nibbling to see if we could pry one loose then they are not doing their job.

 

[Volica]

I agree with what you are saying, but this is the part that is open to interpretation - for some people it's earlier than others. Do you want to be paying a 1st & a prospect when we are cup contenders, or just a prospect now?
There are teams out there that have quality Dmen with a lot of top 4 promise who are buried down the depth charts. If we aren't nibbling to see if we could pry one loose then they are not doing their job.

IF we can steal a young Dman with top 4 potential for spare parts, I'm all for that. Like say if the Devils wanted to give up on one of their higher end guys, and we could take one off their hands for one of our many depth prospects; I'm all for that.

I'll tell you, 10/10 times, I trade a 1st and a prospect when we are contending for a cup, rather than a prospect straight up right now. At this time, we'd be trading for a raw Dman, even if he has top 4 upside he's still raw (we're not getting a guy like Maatta or Jones, etc). If that kid busts, we just lost a prospect for nothing; and we are no closer to being a competent team.

I'd rather slowly build it, get a few Dmen as projects, or draft a high end one if we're on the board for one; simply put, we haven't had the opportunity to hit a home-run with our last two picks (we could have hit the Olli HR, but we went with Janko instead). Monahan > Nurse and Bennett >>>> Fleury + others.

Let's say we suck again this year (not a stretch); then we have a chance to go for Noah Hanifin, Oliver Kylington or Zack Werenski if we're picking at the right spot. That'd be great.

As for now, we're already sort of on the right path. We have Brodie who is looking like an absolute stud, and is mega undervalued in the league; Wotherspoon looked like a capable middle-pairing, bottom leader... and we still don't know what's happening with Patty Sieloff after his injury plagued year.
In addition, while people seem to absolutely hate him, guys like Kanzig have all the right physical and mental tools to become a big time stay-at-home shutdown guy. We also have Kulak, Culkin and Roy who might end up being decent defencemen in their own right.

I think teams like LA and even NY have demonstrated; you don't need to have 6 first rounders playing on your D. They both went with the model of finding that stud dman, and surrounding him with the right people.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

IF we can steal a young Dman with top 4 potential for spare parts, I'm all for that. Like say if the Devils wanted to give up on one of their higher end guys, and we could take one off their hands for one of our many depth prospects; I'm all for that.

I'll tell you, 10/10 times, I trade a 1st and a prospect when we are contending for a cup, rather than a prospect straight up right now. At this time, we'd be trading for a raw Dman, even if he has top 4 upside he's still raw (we're not getting a guy like Maatta or Jones, etc). If that kid busts, we just lost a prospect for nothing; and we are no closer to being a competent team.

I'd rather slowly build it, get a few Dmen as projects, or draft a high end one if we're on the board for one; simply put, we haven't had the opportunity to hit a home-run with our last two picks (we could have hit the Olli HR, but we went with Janko instead). Monahan > Nurse and Bennett >>>> Fleury + others.

Let's say we suck again this year (not a stretch); then we have a chance to go for Noah Hanifin, Oliver Kylington or Zack Werenski if we're picking at the right spot. That'd be great.

As for now, we're already sort of on the right path. We have Brodie who is looking like an absolute stud, and is mega undervalued in the league; Wotherspoon looked like a capable middle-pairing, bottom leader... and we still don't know what's happening with Patty Sieloff after his injury plagued year.
In addition, while people seem to absolutely hate him, guys like Kanzig have all the right physical and mental tools to become a big time stay-at-home shutdown guy. We also have Kulak, Culkin and Roy who might end up being decent defencemen in their own right.

I think teams like LA and even NY have demonstrated; you don't need to have 6 first rounders playing on your D. They both went with the model of finding that stud dman, and surrounding him with the right people.

yet you didn't want Nygren or Pateryn for Jones

And comparing Brodie to Doughty or McDonaugh is laughable

 

[Volica]

yet you didn't want Nygren or Pateryn for Jones

And comparing Brodie to Doughty or McDonaugh is laughable

1) What world are Nygren and Pateryn top 4 material at this time? They're both pretty aged for being prospects; 24 and a total of 3 NHL games between them is nothing to write home about. Both would likely start the season, in the A; Nygren would just run home and be done with the NHL. Pateryn wouldn't be able to crack our roster either, and it is doubtful he'd be our first call-up.
In addition, Jones; our current whipping boy, has value in this league. I'd rather hold onto him until a deadline (whether that's this year, or next's, or at a draft) and make something useful out of him. If Lee Stempniak can garner a 3rd rounder; I'm certain Jones with a good season could get into the 2nd.

2) I did not compare Brodie to Drew Doughty or McDonaugh. Reading comprehension much? Let's try:
A) Brodie is a rainbow
B) Brodie is looking like an absolute stud
C) Brodie is like Doughty and McDonaugh
D) Please read before you let your emotions get the better of you.

 

[Lunatik]

lol @ 24 being old

 

[marbsarebad]

Brodie might not be like Dougherty and McDonut, but I personally think he's one of the best skters in the league and he's a possession machine. Those are two qualities that make a top 2 d-man. I see him hitting his prime Ala J-Bo.

 

[Lunatik]

Brodie might not be like Dougherty and McDonut, but I personally think he's one of the best skters in the league and he's a possession machine. Those are two qualities that make a top 2 d-man. I see him hitting his prime Ala J-Bo.

mmmm... McDonut

 

[Mr Lebowski]

1) What world are Nygren and Pateryn top 4 material at this time? They're both pretty aged for being prospects; 24 and a total of 3 NHL games between them is nothing to write home about. Both would likely start the season, in the A; Nygren would just run home and be done with the NHL. Pateryn wouldn't be able to crack our roster either, and it is doubtful he'd be our first call-up.
In addition, Jones; our current whipping boy, has value in this league. I'd rather hold onto him until a deadline (whether that's this year, or next's, or at a draft) and make something useful out of him. If Lee Stempniak can garner a 3rd rounder; I'm certain Jones with a good season could get into the 2nd.

2) I did not compare Brodie to Drew Doughty or McDonaugh. Reading comprehension much? Let's try:
A) Brodie is a rainbow
B) Brodie is looking like an absolute stud
C) Brodie is like Doughty and McDonaugh
D) Please read before you let your emotions get the better of you.

Nygren and Pateryn do have NHL potential, they're NHL ready this year. Nygren was the assistant captain for Färjestad of the Swedish Elite League. He got 20 points in 25 games. The year before he was second leading goal scorer in the SEL. he's a right handed shot. He's smart and well positioned. He has an active stick on defence. He has good mobility and a booming shot. Can QB a PP and his upside is a top 4 defencemen and at worst he'll be an okay 7th defenceman.

Pateryn was .5 PPG in the AHL last year and played a much bigger role with the team and was on the first line. Big at 6"2', 220 lbs he's physical. Doesn't get out of position when he hits. Works hard and a good leader in the locker room. He's also gonna be in contention for a NHL job this fall. He as well has top 4 upside.

We have Brodie who is looking like an absolute stud

I think teams like LA and even NY have demonstrated; you don't need to have 6 first rounders playing on your D. They both went with the model of finding that stud dman, and surrounding him with the right people.

Also Werenski is worse than Rasmus Andersson and Jeremy Roy

 

[MuffinMerc]

Glencross - Backlund - Hudler
Raymond - Monahan - Colborne
OPEN - Stajan - Jones
Bollig - Bouma - McGrattan
Setoguchi

Giordano - Brodie
Wideman - Smid
Russell - Engelland

Ramo
Hiller


I said this in the Brookbank thread, but that 3rd line LW is the only position I actually see open to a young guy from the start of the season. I'm unsure whether that roster spot is up to Hartley or Treliving, but the 2 prospects I see starting the season here is Reinhart or Byron. Factoring in probable injury to Jones, Glencross, and Wideman: callups to Gaudreau/Sven/(maybe Granlund) and Wotherspoon.

 

[BVicious]

2015-2016 opening day roster:


Geadreau - Johanson - Bennett
Glencross - Monahan - Poirier
Hudler - Stajan - Raymond
Bollig - knight - Bouma

Gio - Brodie
Smid - Russell
Wotherspoon - Seiloff

Hiller
Ortio

Out:

Backlund & Baertschi for Johanson eventually

Wideman, Jones, Byron, Ramo, Arnold and Granlund.

We moved guys for picks. Picked up Johanson from CBJ, moved Bennett to right wing.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

2015-2016 opening day roster:


Geadreau - Johanson - Bennett
Glencross - Monahan - Poirier
Hudler - Stajan - Raymond
Bollig - knight - Bouma

Gio - Brodie
Smid - Russell
Wotherspoon - Seiloff

Hiller
Ortio

Out:

Backlund & Baertschi for Johanson eventually

Wideman, Jones, Byron, Ramo, Arnold and Granlund.

We moved guys for picks. Picked up Johanson from CBJ, moved Bennett to right wing.

Jarmo Kekalainen is not an idiot. That trade doesn't benefit Columbus at all. They lose their best offensive player.

 

[Sparky93]

Jarmo Kekalainen is not an idiot. That trade doesn't benefit Columbus at all. They lose their best offensive player.

Yep, if we wanted to make a run at Johansen the cost would be worse than the Kessel deal and that would be horrible for us.

 

[Skobel24]

Glencross - Backlund - Hudler
Gaudreau - Monahan - Colborne
Baertschi - Stajan - Raymond
Bouma - Knight - Bollig/McGrattan
Reinhart

I think the line-up will be very similar, but a few changes.

1. Baertschi will be on the team
2. Knight will make it. Knight seems like that perfect 4th line center.
3. Reinhart will be close to making it. I think he'll see 20+ games this year, and show he can make the jump full time. It's just the matter of making a spot for him.
4. Bennett will not. I think Burkliving will have him play a year with the Baby Flames.

Giordano - Brodie
Wotherspoon - Smid
Russell - Engelland
Sieloff

1. Wotherspoon and Smid showed chemistry, I think they'll be the new 2nd pairing. Wideman will be gone.

Ramo/Hiller

 

[Sparky93]

Gaudreau - Backlund - Setoguchi
Hudler - Monahan - Colborne
Raymond - Granlund - Jones
Bollig - Knight - McGrattan

Brodie - Murphy
Hanifin - Gio
Russell - Engelland

I'm saying Sven + Bouma for Murphy + pick. With Bollig here and this 1 year deal, it really has me nervous about Bouma's future. Think GlenX will be moved for a 2nd at the deadline, due to the play of Gaudreau. I think Stajan gets moved out for Granlund, who's point production go through the roof playing with Johnny. Smid disappoints but is kept around as the 7th defenseman, mostly for cap reasons. Setoguchi shocks the world and show up ready to play, earning an extension. Wideman for a 2nd to the Ducks.

 

[Ashasx]

Not going to be close, unfortunately, but this is what I'd like to see (short of completely unpredictable trades and UFA signings):

September 2016:

Gaudreau - Backlund - Poirier (RW really is unpredictable. More likely it's still Jones)
Baertschi - Monahan - Glencross
Colborne - Bennett - Raymond/Granlund
Ferland - Bouma - Bollig

Brodie - Giordano
Hanifin - Wotherspoon
Russell - Smid/Sieloff

Ramo
Ortio

 

[CraigsList]

2015-2016

Forwards
Gaudreau - Bennett - Poirier
Baertschi - Monahan - Colborne
Granlund - Backlund - Raymond
Bouma - Reinhart - McGrattan
Bollig, Stajan

-I love Stajan, but the contract extension doesn't really make much sense to me. I think Reinhart and Granlund will be in our lineup after the '14-'15 season.

Defense
Brodie - Giordano
Smid - Wotherspoon
Russell - Hanifin/Kylington/Werenski
Engelland

My guess is we pick Kylington with the #6-8 OA pick, guarantee we'll get a defenseman in the 2015 draft. Almost put the rookie back in the minors, but he proves himself wrong and takes Engelland's spot. Wotherspoon continues his chemistry with Smid and becomes the Flames' #3, making significant progress. We'll probably trade Wideman this year at the deadline to a contending team that could use another offensive weapon.

Goalies

Hiller
Ortio

Something tells me Ramo will go for the money with another team (or maybe chooses to go with another team), or that we trade him in this year's deadline. Ortio's 1-way contract kicks in and I think will play 30ish games while Hiller plays 1a and gets 50ish.


Would this roster get us in the playoffs? Maybe. Depends on how the West shakes up in a couple of years, but I think we won't make it, but barely don't (picking #12 in the 2016 draft).

As of today, I strongly think we are only a RW and defenseman short of becoming really good contenders. LW/C/G have been addressed, just need to do a couple more strong drafts. I think we really should be contending by the time the 2017-2018 season starts.

A month later and I still agree with myself .

 

[QcFlames12]

Mason Raymond Mikeal Backlund Jiri Hudler
Sven Bartschi Sean Monahan ?
Emile Poireir Sam Bennett Nicolas Roy
Lance Bouma Corban Knight Hunter Smith
Brian Mcgratten

Mark Giordano T.J Brodie
Ladislav Smid Dennis Wideman
Tyler Wotherspoon Damon Severson
Dereyk Englannd(I know his name is spelt awkward but on my phone so I won't bother checking)

Jonas Hiller
Joni Ortio

Trade everyone else and let king Johhny gain enough size to not get killed. If he enters simply switch him and Raymond.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

A month later and I still agree with myself .

You've got 6 current rookies in that lineup, including your whole first line.
Even if 2 rookies get considerable playing time this year (which even that looks like a stretch), there is no way we will be inserting 4 rookie forwards next year.
Realistically, only 3 (tops 4) will make the team by 2015-16.

1 of Bart/Johnny/Max this year (2014-15), the other 2 will get some fill in time.
The other 2 plus Bennett & Granlund to fight for 2 more spots in 2015-16
This leaves 2 of the above players plus Poirier, Klimchuk, new draft picks, other long shots etc for 2 spots in 2016-17.

There is a logjam there. One or 2 will almost certainly be traded (IMO for NHL ready defensive prospects).