Draft position - Tank/Win? Upcoming Schedule, etc.

[Englishcoyote]

With the way and wins the coyotes have Been picking up recently we are now only 2pts off njd in 3rd last and 4pts off Dallas for 25th overall in NHL. My question is do we keep on winning and risk losing a top 3/5 pick or tank like 2 yrs ago when we went for mcdavid and eichel and ended up with strome? I think Nolan and nico are two good to pass up on. Basically the top two picks by far outweigh the 3rd to 6th pick....... discuss

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[rt]

Players and coaches don't tank. After the TDL there's nothing more management can do to collect losses.

 

[MIGs Dog]

It's deja vu all over again. Pretty sure we had this same conversation last year in March, and the year before, and maybe the year before...it's hard to keep track.

To recap, players and coaches don't tank, they always play to win. The GM tanks in a sense when he trades away your best players at the trade deadline. We lost 3 guys, could have been a couple of more, but it was not to be.

At this point not much GMJC can do to tank. DT will coach to win because it's the only option, and the players will play to win.

Maybe we move up a couple of spots, in which case our odds only drop a couple of percentage points. NBD IMO.

http://www.tankathon.com/nhl/pick_odds

 

[PhoPhan]

When they're losing, I hear "I know it's a young team, but they should be winning more."

When those young players and the team as a whole get better as the season progresses, I hear "They shouldn't be winning so much."

There are intermediate stages between being a basement dweller and a championship contender. It's not a light switch. If you ever want this team to be good again, you'll need to tolerate something in the middle for a little while.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

With the way and wins the coyotes have Been picking up recently we are now only 2pts off njd in 3rd last and 4pts off Dallas for 25th overall in NHL. My question is do we keep on winning and risk losing a top 3/5 pick or tank like 2 yrs ago when we went for mcdavid and eichel and ended up with strome? I think Nolan and nico are two good to pass up on. Basically the top two picks by far outweigh the 3rd to 6th pick....... discuss

Ownership is still on full stupid mode and will never learn.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Ownership is still on full stupid mode and will never learn.

Lets pretend you are the owner..what would you do? Not 2 weeks ago, what would you do today?

 

[Jakey53]

Ownership is still on full stupid mode and will never learn.

Care to explain?

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

Lets pretend you are the owner..what would you do? Not 2 weeks ago, what would you do today?

I would have went full tank mode sooner to land Eichel and Matthews in their respective draft and I would have fired Tippett.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

Care to explain?

Ownership matters have been discussed numerous times. Go re-read the threads.

 

[MIGs Dog]

I would have went full tank mode sooner to land Eichel and Matthews in their respective draft and I would have fired Tippett.

right...so nothing to do today but fire Tippett, cuz without him we would worse off. Now I get it.

 

[cobra427]

With the way and wins the coyotes have Been picking up recently we are now only 2pts off njd in 3rd last and 4pts off Dallas for 25th overall in NHL. My question is do we keep on winning and risk losing a top 3/5 pick or tank like 2 yrs ago when we went for mcdavid and eichel and ended up with strome? I think Nolan and nico are two good to pass up on. Basically the top two picks by far outweigh the 3rd to 6th pick....... discuss

Losing kills team culture. It kills any progress young players are making. The team is playing much better now. They need to build on the rest of this season, hopefully playing well, which will help the entire team, every player, going into next year. Winning and building confidence is way more important than where we pick this year or really any year.

If DM did tank us, look what it got us, Strome. It didn't get us McDavid or Eichel. Strome might or might not work out and he might make a difference in the 4th year after we draft him. Next year he could be in the AHL all year or part of the year. Chychrun/DVO are making bigger impacts now and they were much later picks. Keller might make the team next year and be ahead of Strome. Lets say we didn't tank and were a few spots higher. We would have had Hanifin or Marner maybe. This is called karma.

If we win 3 out of 4 games the rest of the way, it would be the best thing that could happen to this team for next year.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

At this point there is no reason to tank. The draft isn't deep enough and there is no generational target worth the risk to the franchise. Plus, our scouting is more in-depth than it used to be, so I'd be happy to take a flyer on later-round picks who might pan out.

Don't do any more damage to the room than the season already has.

 

[mouser]

With the way and wins the coyotes have Been picking up recently we are now only 2pts off njd in 3rd last and 4pts off Dallas for 25th overall in NHL. My question is do we keep on winning and risk losing a top 3/5 pick or tank like 2 yrs ago when we went for mcdavid and eichel and ended up with strome? I think Nolan and nico are two good to pass up on. Basically the top two picks by far outweigh the 3rd to 6th pick....... discuss

Vegas will be 3rd in the lottery, so the drop off is from 2nd to 4th this season. Making it an even bigger gap then usual.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Meh, the time to tank was the McEichel year, we didn't tank hard enough then. We had very few players who were going to be on the team long term that year who were actually playing(off the top of my head just OEL, Doan, and Smith). Last year and this year we have too many key pieces of our future already on our team. There is a middle ground between tanking and being a contender, you have to move up the standings slowly when your young core is in place. If anything we should have more victories at this point.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Vegas will be 3rd in the lottery, so the drop off is from 2nd to 4th this season. Making it an even bigger gap then usual.

But 3 and 4 have the same odds to pick 1, 2, or 3.

http://www.tankathon.com/nhl/pick_odds

 

[mouser]

But 3 and 4 have the same odds to pick 1, 2, or 3.

http://www.tankathon.com/nhl/pick_odds

Yes, but Vegas has the "tie-breaker" if neither team wins a top 3 lottery spot. You can see that evidenced in the odds of each team finishing 4th+ in the lottery. Finishing 2nd has the highest probability of drafting 4th, while finishing 3rd has the highest probability of drafting 6th.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

If you ever want this team to be good again, you'll need to tolerate something in the middle for a little while.

in b4

"Ew3 r a Looooo0000serrrr!!!! Embracing Med10Cr1TEEE333EEEEEE!!!!!!"

 

[MIGs Dog]

Yes, but Vegas has the "tie-breaker" if neither team wins a top 3 lottery spot. You can see that evidenced in the odds of each team finishing 4th+ in the lottery. Finishing 2nd has the highest probability of drafting 4th, while finishing 3rd has the highest probability of drafting 6th.

Coyotes are winning the lottery (since there's no Matthews, McDavid, etc) so it's moot.

 

[avco]

Losing kills team culture. It kills any progress young players are making. The team is playing much better now. They need to build on the rest of this season, hopefully playing well, which will help the entire team, every player, going into next year. Winning and building confidence is way more important than where we pick this year or really any year.

If DM did tank us, look what it got us, Strome. It didn't get us McDavid or Eichel. Strome might or might not work out and he might make a difference in the 4th year after we draft him. Next year he could be in the AHL all year or part of the year. Chychrun/DVO are making bigger impacts now and they were much later picks. Keller might make the team next year and be ahead of Strome. Lets say we didn't tank and were a few spots higher. We would have had Hanifin or Marner maybe. This is called karma.

If we win 3 out of 4 games the rest of the way, it would be the best thing that could happen to this team for next year.

Wish that the results at the end of one season transfers to the next but in most cases it doesn't.

As for your comment regarding previous draft picks:

a. we had the choice of Strome, Hanifin or Marner. Just as management couldn't tank properly they may have made the worst choice of 3 player options (time will tell).

b. Chychrun we had to trade up to get and the reason he dropped was because a number of scouts of NHL clubs deemed he did not have the best of Hockey IQ. As for Dvorak he was not rated all that highly by any scouts (projected late 2nd rounder/early to mid 3rd rounder). Perfect examples of why some people should stop using the "hockey people know more than fans" argument.

 

[Alberta Yote]

I'm resigned to Mittelstadt or Tippett already so may as well win more games. I feel much less guilt ridden to cheer for wins.

 

[IPreferPi]

Between Mittlestadt and Tippett, give me Mittlestadt. Tippett is kind of like a lovechild of Yakupov and Virtanen, and that scares the hell out of me.

 

[PhoPhan]

Between Mittlestadt and Tippett, give me Mittlestadt. Tippett is kind of like a lovechild of Yakupov and Virtanen, and that scares the hell out of me.

I've got Mittelstadt much higher than Tippett, who scares me a bit, too. Hockey sense is the number one trait I use to differentiate players at that level, and Tippett's is lacking. But he already has an NHL physique, shot and skating ability, and for every Yakupov or Virtanen taken in the top 10, there's an Evander Kane or a Gabriel Landeskog. One-dimensional scorers of a certain quality can still be pretty useful.

 

[rt]

When they're losing, I hear "I know it's a young team, but they should be winning more."

When those young players and the team as a whole get better as the season progresses, I hear "They shouldn't be winning so much."

There are intermediate stages between being a basement dweller and a championship contender. It's not a light switch. If you ever want this team to be good again, you'll need to tolerate something in the middle for a little while.

I'm not really mad. We seem to be doing better largely on the strength of guys like Domi, Dvorak, and Chychrun.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Meh, the time to tank was the McEichel year, we didn't tank hard enough then. We had very few players who were going to be on the team long term that year who were actually playing(off the top of my head just OEL, Doan, and Smith). Last year and this year we have too many key pieces of our future already on our team. There is a middle ground between tanking and being a contender, you have to move up the standings slowly when your young core is in place. If anything we should have more victories at this point.

Technically, we did the job that we were supposed to that year. The team with the 3rd best record actually won the draft lottery, and there is no way to control if another team wants to super tank it. I suppose we did have something like the 10th best PP, so we could have just ate **** on the PP.

Pho has it right - lots of ups and downs. Lots of new players. Instead of embracing why we don't suck enough or suck too much, just understand that this takes time and celebrate that we are doing well at a time when most teams start to pick up their games to make the playoffs.

 

[XX]

I'm not really mad. We seem to be doing better largely on the strength of guys like Domi, Dvorak, and Chychrun.

Some competence earlier in the season would have been nice. It's great that the kids have survived this (well, most of them) but the team didn't need to struggle as hard as it did.