Value of: Dougie Hamilton

[FameFlame069]

Gardiner (extension to be agreed upon prior)
Brown
1st
Leivo (depth addition if you want it)
Sparks (Best AHL goaltender this year)

for

Hamilton
Bennett

It's 3am and I am tired as hell but you know, generate discussion and all.

Gardiner makes more sense in a Hamonic-Gardiner swap (with pluses on both sides, I think a leaf fan and myself agreed upon Kapanen/Brown for Kylington/Fox (Kap/Kyl or Brown/Fox in the deal)

 

[FameFlame069]

I still smile when I think that this guy and Seguin should be on the Bruins.

Just looking at some players Boston traded/let go of Seguin, Hamilton, Looch. Seguin was due to off ice behaviours? Boston's FO didn't want to pay Hamilton 5m+? Looch was old and Boston was out of contention that year and got what they could?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Gardiner makes more sense in a Hamonic-Gardiner swap (with pluses on both sides, I think a leaf fan and myself agreed upon Kapanen/Brown for Kylington/Fox (Kap/Kyl or Brown/Fox in the deal)

I think if I was going to move Brown or Kappy I would want someone a bit more proven then a prospect, even if the prospect is promising.

I'd be open to Gardiner, Brown for Hamonic, Bennett. I'd love to dig a bit deeper on advanced stats etc but as I am near 24 hours awake on 3-4 hours of sleep I don't want to pour over numbers at the present, but talking about potential trades is always fun.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

How exactly are they "screwed" and I'm pretty sure Calgary and Edmonton where in the Hamilton/Talbot discussions (with pretty much the same deals being involved for both), Hamonic had what? 4-5 teams that he wanted to go to for family reasons? So you can't really say it was cause of Edmonton.
But i don't understand how the Flames are screwed, 3 strong forward build pieces(Johnny, Money, Chucky), 4 top four dmen (Giordano is the oldest and best while Hamilton is the youngest with Hamonic and Brodie), with strong defensive prospects coming up (Valimaki and Andersson are the two I see going the farthest with the team), a couple forward prospects who could help the depth we need at forward.I don't see how we're screwed?

That's my point. The Flames were not far enough in their rebuild where they should have been interested in the Talbots, Hamiltons, etc. They needed to draft a few more years and then make those moves. Now they are stuck with a non playoff team that has no help on the way because they were all traded away for Hamonic and Hamilton.

The only way the Flames can improve is to sign UFA's or trade their 2019 picks. They really should just bite the bullet, trade some of their older fellows for draft picks and draft for a couple more years, then make these kinds of moves again.

 

[FameFlame069]

I think if I was going to move Brown or Kappy I would want someone a bit more proven then a prospect, even if the prospect is promising.

I'd be open to Gardiner, Brown for Hamonic, Bennett. I'd love to dig a bit deeper on advanced stats etc but as I am near 24 hours awake on 3-4 hours of sleep I don't want to pour over numbers at the present, but talking about potential trades is always fun.

You'd prefer Bennett over Fox (since you said Brown) ? I'm not completely sold on him being what he is, but he's stuck on the 3rd line because of our depth of lhs forwards, I'd be interested though, add a 3rd on Tor's side and im in.

 

[FameFlame069]

That's my point. The Flames were not far enough in their rebuild where they should have been interested in the Talbots, Hamiltons, etc. They needed to draft a few more years and then make those moves. Now they are stuck with a non playoff team that has no help on the way because they were all traded away for Hamonic and Hamilton.

The only way the Flames can improve is to sign UFA's or trade their 2019 picks. They really should just bite the bullet, trade some of their older fellows for draft picks and draft for a couple more years, then make these kinds of moves again.

Well I'm happy with the Hamilton acquisition, but i didn't like the Hamonic price, should of let the oilers have him, we have plenty of d-prospects, Andersson could of been playing right now (all season too)

 

[blankall]

Contend? They are not going to get any better unless they trade all their 2019 picks.

The reason they are in purgatory is they tried the quick fix. Instead of staying the path they traded away all their picks for Dmen Edmonton wanted because they were scared that Edmonton was going to be better.

Now they are screwed.

Lol.. Quick fix? They traded all their assets, spent several years rebuilding, and then acquired two young top forf defenceman when they became available. That's not a quick fix. That's called a rebuild.

 

[blankall]

That's my point. The Flames were not far enough in their rebuild where they should have been interested in the Talbots, Hamiltons, etc. They needed to draft a few more years and then make those moves. Now they are stuck with a non playoff team that has no help on the way because they were all traded away for Hamonic and Hamilton.

The only way the Flames can improve is to sign UFA's or trade their 2019 picks. They really should just bite the bullet, trade some of their older fellows for draft picks and draft for a couple more years, then make these kinds of moves again.

A rebuild doesn't need to be six plus years. Prolonging their rebuild would just mean that players like Gaudreau and Giordano would be out of their primes and need to be replaced.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

A rebuild doesn't need to be six plus years. Prolonging their rebuild would just mean that players like Gaudreau and Giordano would be out of their primes and need to be replaced.

Gaudreau isn't that old. Trade Gio. Trade Brodie. Keep Hamilton if you want.

Burke should have waited but his feud with the Oilers forced him to make moves before the Flames were ready. That much is obvious as per where they are in the standings.

 

[blankall]

Gaudreau isn't that old. Trade Gio. Trade Brodie. Keep Hamilton if you want.

Burke should have waited but his feud with the Oilers forced him to make moves before the Flames were ready. That much is obvious as per where they are in the standings.

Lol. Acquiring defenceman had nothing to do with the oilers, who by the way look worse off than the Flames despite having the best player in the NHL on their team and a ten+ year rebuild.

When the chance to acquire a player like Hamilton for cheap comes along, you take it.

Gaudreau is 25 by the start of next season. In three more years he'll be 28, which is past prime for an NHL forward.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Lol. Acquiring defenceman had nothing to do with the oilers, who by the way look worse off than the Flames despite having the best player in the NHL on their team and a ten+ year rebuild.

When the chance to acquire a player like Hamilton for cheap comes along, you take it.

Gaudreau is 25 by the start of next season. In three more years he'll be 28, which is past prime for an NHL forward.

There's no doubt the Oilers could have used Hamilton. Burke hurt both the Oilers and the Flames. Slowed down the Oilers ascent and left the Flames in Limbo. That's usually how feuds work.

Well then it looks like the Flames are screwed if you think their window is only three years, then JG is old. Makes even more sense to trade away the veterans.

 

[Duncstar]

What would it cost Ottawa other Mark Stone (cant trade away all our Captains).

Looking at a package, or top 5 draft pick.

 

[blankall]

There's no doubt the Oilers could have used Hamilton. Burke hurt both the Oilers and the Flames. Slowed down the Oilers ascent and left the Flames in Limbo. That's usually how feuds work.

Well then it looks like the Flames are screwed if you think their window is only three years, then JG is old. Makes even more sense to trade away the veterans.

No...It makes sense to try and win while Gaudreau and Giordano are still playing at a high level. Whoever they get in the draft is likely to be worse than those two players.

Once again, the Flames did not acquire players just to screw the Oilers over. The Oilers are also clearly not on any kind of ascent and their rebuild should not be emulated by anyone. The only thing they did right was win a draft lottery and draft McDavid. Even then, the NHL had to change the draft lottery rules to stop them from sucking so badly, and that clearly hasn't helped.

 

[blankall]

What would it cost Ottawa other Mark Stone (cant trade away all our Captains).

Looking at a package, or top 5 draft pick.

Stone and Karlsson are the only players the Senators have that don't make the Flames a worse team in a Hamiton trade.

This thread wasn't created to approve some kind of realistic trade. It was created to see what Hamilton's value is, and Stone is probably close. Hamilton is realistically not getting traded. If a defenceman is being moved it's Brodie or Stone.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

No...It makes sense to try and win while Gaudreau and Giordano are still playing at a high level. Whoever they get in the draft is likely to be worse than those two players.

Once again, the Flames did not acquire players just to screw the Oilers over. The Oilers are also clearly not on any kind of ascent and their rebuild should not be emulated by anyone. The only thing they did right was win a draft lottery and draft McDavid. Even then, the NHL had to change the draft lottery rules to stop them from sucking so badly, and that clearly hasn't helped.

Other than why Burke did what he did the Oilers rebuild has nothing to do with this conversation. You seem to want to deflect.

If you know how the Flames will contend within the next few years, I'd love to hear it.

You seem to be missing my point. Hamilton is a good player. That doesn't change the fact that the Flames made their moves before they should have. That's why the Flames are going to be stuck where they are for a while. They mortgaged their future for a quick fix. It didn't work. Now they have no picks. The only way they will get better is through UFA or trading the 2019 picks. Then they won't have picks then either...

 

[Duncstar]

Stone and Karlsson are the only players the Senators have that don't make the Flames a worse team in a Hamiton trade.

This thread wasn't created to approve some kind of realistic trade. It was created to see what Hamilton's value is, and Stone is probably close. Hamilton is realistically not getting traded. If a defenceman is being moved it's Brodie or Stone.

Brodie shoots left, but does he prefer his offside?

 

[blankall]

Other than why Burke did what he did the Oilers rebuild has nothing to do with this conversation. You seem to want to deflect.

If you know how the Flames will contend within the next few years, I'd love to hear it.

You seem to be missing my point. Hamilton is a good player. That doesn't change the fact that the Flames made their moves before they should have. That's why the Flames are going to be stuck where they are for a while. They mortgaged their future for a quick fix. It didn't work. Now they have no picks. The only way they will get better is through UFA or trading the 2019 picks. Then they won't have picks then either...

You keep saying that, yet cannot provide any reasoning for why the pick now would make them a better team moving forward than having Hamilton and Hamonic. They didn't really mortgage their future. They traded picks for good young defenceman that will continue to contribute to the team for many years to come. You talk about it like the Flames have nothing to show for their trades? Hamilton and Hamonic were not rentals. In fact, they're both great cost controlled top 4 d-men.

What the Flames need to succeed is for their forward corps, who are still mostly very young, to continue developing and to acquire solid depth scoring. They have Jankowski and Bennett, who both seem to be developing into solid depth. They need 1 or 2 more solid guys. They also need better coaching, particularly for their special teams.

Now please explain to me how having another draft pick this year helps the Flames win in their window more than Hamilton and Hamonic do.

 

[72hockey guy]

You keep saying that, yet cannot provide any reasoning for why the pick now would make them a better team moving forward than having Hamilton and Hamonic. They didn't really mortgage their future. They traded picks for good young defenceman that will continue to contribute to the team for many years to come. You talk about it like the Flames have nothing to show for their trades? Hamilton and Hamonic were not rentals. In fact, they're both great cost controlled top 4 d-men.

What the Flames need to succeed is for their forward corps, who are still mostly very young, to continue developing and to acquire solid depth scoring. They have Jankowski and Bennett, who both seem to be developing into solid depth. They need 1 or 2 more solid guys. They also need better coaching, particularly for their special teams.

Now please explain to me how having another draft pick this year helps the Flames win in their window more than Hamilton and Hamonic do.

youre right, it doesnt. leaf fans as usual want someting for nothing

 

[Lunatik]

There's only 3 players in this draft I'd trade 1v1 (or close to it) and it's pretty obvious which 3 kids, we already have a deal lined up of Van's 1st (1st OA protected) for Bennett + 3rd, so I'll use that pick for BPA,lol if it was Dougie to be traded I'd expect more then what we paid for him he has improved defensively and offensively, he's also signed and will still be an RFA (I think? )

If you are going to make statements like this, provide a source. But, I am guessing you can't because this deal that is in place, is nothing more than a figment of your imagination.

That has to be a rumor. There’s no way that Bennet is worth a top 10 pick.

Not even a rumor, it's what happens when you NyQuil induced dreams.

Some fans are completely out to lunch. Marner or Nylander on their own would net a top pairing dman, problem I see for the Flames is they have Big Mouth running the franchise and nothing makes me happier to see Big Mouth, again, trade another lottery pic for a player that won't do much for you.

I get Burke was a loud mouth in TOronto, but the fact of the matter is, he hasn't been in Calgary, in fact we barely hear from him at all. And since you and many other Leafs fans still haven't figured it out....

BRIAN BURKE IS NOT THE GOD DAMN GENERAL MANAGER

 

[Estlin]

Just looking at some players Boston traded/let go of Seguin, Hamilton, Looch. Seguin was due to off ice behaviours? Boston's FO didn't want to pay Hamilton 5m+? Looch was old and Boston was out of contention that year and got what they could?

Hamilton didn't want to be in Boston anymore. The Bruins had offered him a better deal than what he ended up signing with Calgary.

Anyway, Hamilton is not missed in Boston, and Krug is the better player of the two.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

You keep saying that, yet cannot provide any reasoning for why the pick now would make them a better team moving forward than having Hamilton and Hamonic. They didn't really mortgage their future. They traded picks for good young defenceman that will continue to contribute to the team for many years to come. You talk about it like the Flames have nothing to show for their trades? Hamilton and Hamonic were not rentals. In fact, they're both great cost controlled top 4 d-men.

What the Flames need to succeed is for their forward corps, who are still mostly very young, to continue developing and to acquire solid depth scoring. They have Jankowski and Bennett, who both seem to be developing into solid depth. They need 1 or 2 more solid guys. They also need better coaching, particularly for their special teams.

Now please explain to me how having another draft pick this year helps the Flames win in their window more than Hamilton and Hamonic do.

Because the trades improved the Flames just enough to move from a top ten pick team to now living in the dreaded 11-15 range. Not good enough and not bad enough.

So instead of having those draft picks getting ready and perhaps now beginning to sign and trade to improve, they are stuck with no picks and a team not good enough.

Not that it matters much the last couple of years because they don't have draft picks anyway.

 

[blankall]

Because the trades improved the Flames just enough to move from a top ten pick team to now living in the dreaded 11-15 range. Not good enough and not bad enough.

So instead of having those draft picks getting ready and perhaps now beginning to sign and trade to improve, they are stuck with no picks and a team not good enough.

Not that it matters much the last couple of years because they don't have draft picks anyway.

But the Flames did have multiple years of high draft picks....via those draft picks (or using them) we acquired Monahan, Tkachuk, and Hamilton. We already had Gaudreau....that's the base you build around. You give that base a few years to work out, and if it doesn't then you consider blowing it up. Perpetually tanking and drafting high never works out. You tank for a few years, get top end talent and then build. Perpetually tanking just leads to a cycle where you stunt development and build a losing culture.

Your argument totally relies on the Flames not improving with what they have, which is yet to be seen. Basically, what I'm saying is the Flames are better off with the Blackhawks' model than the Oilers' model.

 

[connormcmuffin]

Schnieder + Severson for Hamilton?

 

[Owen Doty]

Schnieder + Severson for Hamilton?

Just no. This does nothing for calgary's needs, which are a 1st line RW. Not trading a premier defenseman for a struggling goalie and an okay defenseman. Would rather keep dougie, he's a stud.

 

[connormcmuffin]

Just no. This does nothing for calgary's needs, which are a 1st line RW. Not trading a premier defenseman for a struggling goalie and an okay defenseman. Would rather keep dougie, he's a stud.

Calgary needs a goaltender, non playoff teams aren't a RW from contention.