Player Discussion Dougie Hamilton

[East Coast Icestyle]

Klingberg put up 58 points in his sophomore season and Julius Honka looks like he could be a top 4 defensemen with tremendous offensive upside. 2 young cornerstone defensemen for 1 cornerstone defensemen would be an easy choice all day any day for most GMs.

Klingberg has had the benefit of playing on a team with Seguin, Benn, Spezza, Hemsky, Sharp, Goligoski, etc. The first two being yearly art ross challenges, the third being a former point-per-game player over the first decade of his career.

It's no surprise that with Benn struggling, Spezza, Sharp and Hemsky injured, and Goligoski removed that he is not putting up the points or as good as he seemed.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's real good, but he's closer to Tyson Barrie than Erik Karlsson.

Hamilton could top out at 40-50 points, solid defensively, and he'll never have a mean streak but we have seen him play physical when he's on his game and that makes him a mother****ing force. Will he win a Norris? No, probably not. But through his prime (generally farther away for defense than forwards) I think he will be one of the most dominant defensemen in the league all-around. He's already our best player with G out.

 

[Calculon]

West Coast Bias: What the scouts say about Dougie Hamilton

“He’s a Top 4 defenceman. He’s just not as good as people thought he would be,†said an Eastern Conference scout. “He’s good, but he doesn’t do anything great. Passes well, but he’s not a great puck mover. He defends OK, but he’s not real physical. Pretty good at everything. Not great at any one thing.â€

“He’s big, but he’s never played real big,†said another scout. “He’s paid as a No. 2-3 (defenceman), and Calgary is not getting that value.â€

As with all players today, Hamilton’s salary — an annual average value of $5.75 for four more seasons after this one — is a major factor in evaluating his worth. Scouts all notice that Hamilton has second-pairing ice time (19:19 per game) and a top pairing salary. That speaks to Calgary’s evaluation of what the player can handle.

Things can change — Hamilton is still just 23 — and everyone loves his shot, though scouts wonder what the factors are that have head coach Glen Gulutzan using Hamilton primarily on his second power play unit, not the first.

“For $5.8 million you want a first pairing D-man,†one scout said. “He’s not playing 22-24 minutes against every player in every situation. Shorthanded, last minutes of periods, etc.â€

“He’s got good skills — skating, shooting, passing — and good size. But he plays soft. No grit or pushback to his game,†evaluated another scout. “I believe Burkie is all huff and puff, and they’d move him as quick as they could.â€

Another common theme here is one that nobody can deny: Wasn’t Burke the one who gave the NHL the word “truculent?â€

All agree that Hamilton’s size and lack of truculence would be more likely to drive Burke crazy. Not crazy enough to ship Hamilton out, perhaps, but as one scout said, “Truculence is his word, and Hamilton isn’t that gu. He’s calm. Not vicious, mean or physical. [At 6-foot-6], you’d better be on your ass. He doesn’t put anyone on their ass.â€

 

[Dack]

West Coast Bias: What the scouts say about Dougie Hamilton

Today I learned Hamilton is a good player but he's not physical so he's a bad player.

 

[Lunatik]

Those scouts sound like guys that have no watched him in the last year.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

TIL scouts bedtime is 9pm.

 

[Volica]

Today I learned Hamilton is a good player but he's not physical so he's a bad player.

Read Mark Spector, disregard.

There are 29 teams in the NHL that given the chance would take Dougie. He's averaging more than 21 minutes a night since his move to the first pairing. He's playing late game; just not much PK time.

Smoke. Just to blow it.

 

[SKRusty]

West Coast Bias: What the scouts say about Dougie Hamilton

I think I he meant 5 disgruntled Flames fans that want Paul Byron back.

 

[Backlund]

Those scouts sound like guys that have no watched him in the last year.

Those sound like pretty accurate assessments to me and I've watched him play in the last year. What exactly did they say that you think is wrong?

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

West Coast Bias: What the scouts say about Dougie Hamilton

While I think the stuff about Dougie not being physical is pretty off, a lot of those criticisms are fair. However I don't blame him, I blame the coach(es). Dougie should be playing at the end of games, or big minutes at both sides of special teams and all that. What more does he need to do to prove it?

I think I he meant 5 disgruntled Flames fans that want Paul Byron back.

We are Legion.

 

[Mr Snrub]

Things can change — Hamilton is still just 23 — and everyone loves his shot, though scouts wonder what the factors are that have head coach Glen Gulutzan using Hamilton primarily on his second power play unit, not the first.

“For $5.8 million you want a first pairing D-man,” one scout said. “He’s not playing 22-24 minutes against every player in every situation. Shorthanded, last minutes of periods, etc.”

He is literally playing on the first pairing what the ****

 

[Lunatik]

Those sound like pretty accurate assessments to me and I've watched him play in the last year. What exactly did they say that you think is wrong?

1. H eis playing at a #3 level, which one claimed he wasn't.

2. they claimed he never has physical pushback, which is false he doesn't throw his weight around like you'd want but he still uses his body when needed

3. 5.75 is not top pairing money anymore

 

[Backlund]

1. H eis playing at a #3 level, which one claimed he wasn't.

2. they claimed he never has physical pushback, which is false he doesn't throw his weight around like you'd want but he still uses his body when needed

3. 5.75 is not top pairing money anymore

1. One also said he was a top 4 defenseman. The other said Calgary wasn't getting the value from him as a 2-3 and with his minutes and production you could argue we aren't.

2. One scout said he's never played real big and I'd agree. Or at least consistently. He plays very calm and I rarely see him get vicious or physical, or at least as much as you would want/expect from someone his size.

3. You're right but I was trying to argue his play assessment rather than his contract.

 

[Lunatik]

1. One also said he was a top 4 defenseman. The other said Calgary wasn't getting the value from him as a 2-3 and with his minutes and production you could argue we aren't.

2. One scout said he's never played real big and I'd agree. Or at least consistently. He plays very calm and I rarely see him get vicious or physical, or at least as much as you would want/expect from someone his size.

3. You're right but I was trying to argue his play assessment rather than his contract.

the entire assessment was based off his contract though

 

[Backlund]

the entire assessment was based off his contract though

Not all of it. Only some parts mention his contract in relation to their opinions on him. The article says what scouts say about Hamilton, not why scouts think Hamilton isn't worth his contract.

However what I meant from the beginning was just the parts about his play. Taking away what they say about his contract, that seems like an accurate description of where Dougie Hamilton currently is as a player. So what exactly in relation to his play sounds like these scouts haven't watched him play for the past year? Because to me those are accurate criticisms.

 

[Volica]

This weird myth that Dougie isn't physical is strange to me. The time of the goon defenseman is dead; look at the last 3 major teams in the NHL. None of them have a rough and tough guy playing on the top pair. Doughty and Hjalmarsson the two best defensive Dmen from cup winning teams are so far from physical.

Just because someone's big, doesn't mean they have to fight and take penalties. Him taking the body in corners is physical enough. I'd rather him use his stick, chip pucks and move to counter.

 

[Backlund]

This weird myth that Dougie isn't physical is strange to me. The time of the goon defenseman is dead; look at the last 3 major teams in the NHL. None of them have a rough and tough guy playing on the top pair. Doughty and Hjalmarsson the two best defensive Dmen from cup winning teams are so far from physical.

Just because someone's big, doesn't mean they have to fight and take penalties. Him taking the body in corners is physical enough. I'd rather him use his stick, chip pucks and move to counter.

I don't think it's a myth. Nobody expects him to be Scott Stevens but I'd like to see him be more physical because of his size. For someone 6'6" you have to admit he's kind of soft. I realize that's never really been his game but its definitely something I'd like to see him develop more.

 

[Snazu]

West Coast Bias: What the scouts say about Dougie Hamilton

Do these people realize that the Flames have Gio and Brodie on the team as well? That's some pretty stiff competition to outplay and be pushed ahead of on the depth chart. He's not going to be playing more that both of those guys on most nights. He is playing with Gio right now, but the Flames want to get their 2 best dmen getting the most icetime and opportunity.

 

[Volica]

I don't think it's a myth. Nobody expects him to be Scott Stevens but I'd like to see him be more physical because of his size. For someone 6'6" you have to admit he's kind of soft. I realize that's never really been his game but its definitely something I'd like to see him develop more.

What's soft though? He hits, he's taken some 'aggressive' type penalties. I don't understand the obsession with big guys being mean. I'd rather have Engelland know how to hockey than be 'mean'.

 

[Backlund]

What's soft though? He hits, he's taken some 'aggressive' type penalties. I don't understand the obsession with big guys being mean. I'd rather have Engelland know how to hockey than be 'mean'.

Lacking truculence & pugnacity

I admit he does hit and has been aggressive at times just not as much as I'd want or expect from someone his size. I guess it's just with size and strength you can be more physical than others who aren't as big. Playing well and being mean aren't mutually exclusive. You can be both.

 

[Volica]

It's just ridiculous that people expect him to be some Pronger Adjace out there. TJ Brodie is soft as butter but there's no mention of it.

I'd rather him just keep up his dominant play. Again tonight he looks like a stud; he hasn't been very physical but the puck goes from our end to the offensive end almost every time he hits the ice.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Dougie is a lot more physical then he gets credit for. There's lots of time he blatantly cross-checks people in the back and the NHL doesn't seem to call it that much.

I'd be interested to see the hitting stats for Calgary defencemen but I can never find them

 

[Calgareee]

Lacking truculence & pugnacity

I admit he does hit and has been aggressive at times just not as much as I'd want or expect from someone his size. I guess it's just with size and strength you can be more physical than others who aren't as big. Playing well and being mean aren't mutually exclusive. You can be both.

But we already have the vicious Wideman that plays above his weight

But in all seriousness he uses his size well to protect the puck and definitely utilizes his reach. He's not Pronger but we're already one of the more penalized teams in the league and they don't let stuff go like they have in the past. You want him out there hacking and slashing everyone he comes across?

 

[Backlund]

It's just ridiculous that people expect him to be some Pronger Adjace out there. TJ Brodie is soft as butter but there's no mention of it.

I'd rather him just keep up his dominant play. Again tonight he looks like a stud; he hasn't been very physical but the puck goes from our end to the offensive end almost every time he hits the ice.

Did I not just say I didn't expect that from him?

Brodie is also 6'1" and 182lbs how physical do you expect a player like him to be?

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

If I ever had a concern with Dougie's physicality, it was erased a couple weeks back when he saved Gio's butt on a sure-goal by knocking the open man (I forget who) down with a hard crosscheck. Took the penalty, saved the goal. That is the kind of physicality you need, and he brings it. Physicality for the sake of physicality is just bad hockey. Physicality with a purpose is what I ask for, and Dougie brings that.

 

[Volica]

Just a quick hitter on Dougie. This guy's a possession beast. 68.42% CF% 5v5 tonight; played 20 minutes while having missed a large portion of the first.

The only four players who have better possession numbers than Dougie while having played more minutes are:
Seabrook and 3 kings Dmen. Keeping in mind, those teams get the benefit of a crazy good defensive system and some generational talent Muzzin has the closest CF%RelTM out of the those 5 guys mentioned to Dougie; and he's still 20+ positions away from Hamilton.