Dorsett - what happened?

[LeftCoast]

I really don't get all the hate. Dorsett is great 4th line forward, and because he can really skate, he can also play higher up the line up (for short periods). His contract has too much term, but other than than, next to maybe Dale Weise, he's probably the best 4th liner we've had in a long time.

As mentioned, when he plays with skilled players, his line produces. When he plays with Prust and Cracknell, they at least play in the offensive zone, but usually fail to convert.

 

[drax0s]

Doesn't it usually makes you better? I remember bertuzzi credited having kids to allow him to be better in hockey, as he have other things more important than dwelling on a bad game.
Either way if having children somehow makes you a crappier player, we should make sure to lock up our young players to NKC (no kids clause).

I can only speak for myself, so take this with a huge grain of salt. . Having kids shifted my priorities. Work used to take priority, but immediately after my first was born, family took priority. I not only would I not work as crazy hours, I found myself weirdly aware of my own personal safety, etc. For a guy like Dorsett, I could easily see that making him less likely to sacrifice the body and "play hard".

Anyways. It might be a factor in Dorsett, but I think the bigger is that he's not playing with Hansen and Horvat.

 

[MS]

Predictably, his 25 points last year were a mirage. Everyone with a brain knew this was a 15-point player.

Predictably, like all of these marginally talented energy types, his effectiveness diminishes approaching age 30.

Not looking forward to watching him trundle around for another 3.5 years.

Right now Dorsett and Prust are being paid $5 million for 3 combined goals half-way through the season. Utterly terrible management.

 

[Hit the post]

I really don't get all the hate. Dorsett is great 4th line forward, and because he can really skate, he can also play higher up the line up (for short periods). His contract has too much term, but other than than, next to maybe Dale Weise, he's probably the best 4th liner we've had in a long time.

As mentioned, when he plays with skilled players, his line produces. When he plays with Prust and Cracknell, they at least play in the offensive zone, but usually fail to convert.

heh, how is that different from pretty much EVERY legitimate NHL player?

 

[absolute garbage]

It's just what happens. People start mellowing once they get closer to 30. In the NHL this is apparent with these low-talent energy guys whose only real attribute (as far as why the made the NHL) is insane sacrifice and hustle every night. Really the prime age for these guys is like 23-26. It's a young man's role and it's very short lived usually.

Even for more talented guys like Dustin Brown and Clarkson, they just can't keep it up. The intensity just fades away a bit and there goes a lot of their effectiveness.

I mean when you think about it, it's just completely different scenario when a young, single guy goes on to wreck some havoc on the ice in the evening compared to a family man expected to do the same. Even though "everyone is a professional" etc, the mindset is completely different.

Also, it's one thing to tire out mentally because of all the intensity required night after night, but the toll that their bodies take physically is a whole another thing. It's just very different game compared to a more skilled guy, and by the time they are hitting 30 their bodies have taken much more of a beating and that shows somewhere.

Dorsett is in this group, although it's kind of irrelevant because his last year was an exception anyway and he cashed in on the expense of a dumb GM.

 

[Alan Jackson]

Predictably, his 25 points last year were a mirage. Everyone with a brain knew this was a 15-point player.

Predictably, like all of these marginally talented energy types, his effectiveness diminishes approaching age 30.

Not looking forward to watching him trundle around for another 3.5 years.

Right now Dorsett and Prust are being paid $5 million for 3 combined goals half-way through the season. Utterly terrible management.

I agree that's not great value, but the $7 million on the 7 combined goals from Burrows and Higgins (players you actually expect goals from) isn't helping, either.

 

[Hit the post]

I agree that's not great value, but the $7 million on the 7 combined goals from Burrows and Higgins (players you actually expect goals from) isn't helping, either.

True, Benning inherited that mess; but the $5 million dollar 4th line is a self-inflicted wound - and he knew that going in he had problems further up the lineup.

 

[arttk]

True, Benning inherited that mess; but the $5 million dollar 4th line is a self-inflicted wound - and he knew that going in he had problems further up the lineup.

Putting together a D unit that can't generate **** doesn't help the forwards as well.

 

[Siludin]

Dorsett isn't showing as well because the team isn't playing as well. There are bigger concerns than Dorsett right now. He's a bottom-6 winger.

 

[MS]

I agree that's not great value, but the $7 million on the 7 combined goals from Burrows and Higgins (players you actually expect goals from) isn't helping, either.

Slight difference between guys flagging a bit in the last years of deals that have been very good value and guys doing nothing as brand new acquisitions/contracts.

If Dorsett turned in 3 good-value years on his deal and was then struggling in year 4, nobody would mind too much. This is not the case.

 

[Jyrki21]

Dorsett might be slighty overpaid but he brings a number of intangibles like heart, grit, perseverance. He's a heart and soul player and there's a reason why Willie gives him minutes and trusts him.

If these so-called intangibles don't (1) lead to more goals for, or (2) lead to fewer goals against, then they are utterly useless. A good part of the reason the team is doing poorly is because Willie plays him so much.

Doesn't it usually makes you better? I remember bertuzzi credited having kids to allow him to be better in hockey, as he have other things more important than dwelling on a bad game.
Either way if having children somehow makes you a crappier player, we should make sure to lock up our young players to NKC (no kids clause).

For the record, while the perspective stuff that Drax0s named is definitely true, I have actually become much more impatient and ornery since having kids. This is a combination of sleep deprivation and growing exasperated on a daily basis. (I love my kids like nothing else, but man...)

 

[VanJack]

True, Benning inherited that mess; but the $5 million dollar 4th line is a self-inflicted wound - and he knew that going in he had problems further up the lineup.

If it was just one bad contract for a fourth liner, you might grumble a bit, but live with it....but when you factor in the Miller signing...a total of $8m combined for Sbisa and Sutter; along with taking on Prust's contract; and all of a sudden you can be in cap hell.

 

[Alan Jackson]

If these so-called intangibles don't (1) lead to more goals for, or (2) lead to fewer goals against, then they are utterly useless.

I agree, but that's fairly difficult to measure, no? That's why they're "intangibles".

We can't really say whether having Dorset on the team has a positive influence on his teammates' performance, or whether the opposite might be true.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Dorsett would have been great to have on our 4th line in 2011. Today? No thank you.

 

[Ho Borvat]

Im so glad we have Dorsett locked up for 4 years, instead of bringing in players like Gaunce/Grenier/Kenins who actually could have a future with this team.

 

[Proto]

Last year he had exceptionally lucky results and put up pedestrian 5v5 numbers. Luck ran out. Good thing Benning signed him at his high water mark though -- nobody could have predicted this...

 

[VanJack]

Last year he had exceptionally lucky results and put up pedestrian 5v5 numbers. Luck ran out. Good thing Benning signed him at his high water mark though -- nobody could have predicted this...

There seems to be a trend happening here....Benning expended a third-rounder to get Dorsett from the Rangers in the first place....and when he acquires players via the trade route he seems to consistently over-value them and sign them to long-term deals, even when current performance doesn't merit it. Many posters on these boards, including NHL insiders, were scratching their heads over the deals for Dorsett, Sbisa and Sutter.

 

[Jyrki21]

I agree, but that's fairly difficult to measure, no? That's why they're "intangibles".

And that's why they appear to be magically convenient reasons to have a guy on the team whose "tangibles" aren't very good. If the team suffers in play when he takes the ice, suddenly believing that they'd be somehow even worse with him replaced by a guy with better "tangibles" just seems like fantasy.

 

[drax0s]

For the record, while the perspective stuff that Drax0s named is definitely true, I have actually become much more impatient and ornery since having kids. This is a combination of sleep deprivation and growing exasperated on a daily basis. (I love my kids like nothing else, but man...)

So true. For once I'd like to sleep past 7:30am instead of watching Paw Patrol while drinking my morning coffee.

 

[racerjoe]

Slight difference between guys flagging a bit in the last years of deals that have been very good value and guys doing nothing as brand new acquisitions/contracts.

If Dorsett turned in 3 good-value years on his deal and was then struggling in year 4, nobody would mind too much. This is not the case.

I would even go a step farther and say Burrows would still put up 25-30 goals with the twins like he has every time he plays with them. Not sure I want to move Hansen off that line, but still, who else do we have that can be offensive? He has played now a bit on what has become his off wing with Vrbrata but thats an adjustment in itself going from goal socorer to set up man.

Higgins I give a pass to because I think he is just a step behind from the foot injury, and I don't think he will catch up this season. He is still a tweener that shouldn't be in the top 6, but much better value than Dorsett at the same price.

Dorsett... if you couldn't see this coming, well I don't know what to say. He is a decent 4th line guy, but this is why decent 4th line guys do, and why you don't pay them with long term contracts, to say nothing of the cap hit.

 

[Alan Jackson]

And that's why they appear to be magically convenient reasons to have a guy on the team whose "tangibles" aren't very good. If the team suffers in play when he takes the ice, suddenly believing that they'd be somehow even worse with him replaced by a guy with better "tangibles" just seems like fantasy.

I don't disagree, and I know where you're coming from. The thing is, though, these players with "intangible" value seemed to be valued by every coach and manager in the league.

That said, I think Dorset offers more "tangibles" than a lot of the players we've trotted out on the 4th line in recent years, many of whom probably shouldn't have even been in the league. Volpatti, Desbiens, Bolduc, Oreskovich, Bitz, Pinizotto. Sesito...

I think Dorset offers decent value for money, or at least he did last season. I don't however, like the term that Benning gave him.

I've been underwhelmed with his play this season, though, and agree he needs to be better.

 

[Ho Borvat]

Dorsett... if you couldn't see this coming, well I don't know what to say. He is a decent 4th line guy, but this is why decent 4th line guys do, and why you don't pay them with long term contracts, to say nothing of the cap hit.

Well and just common sense says don't give a guy who plays like that a 4 year deal in his 30's.

Its just never going to work out well.

Don't get me wrong. I love Derek Dorsett the player, and really respect how for years in this league hes made a career by being scrappy, a good teammate, and one of those rare "10 minute tough guys".

Its unfortunate, because its not Dorsetts fault he got offered that money. I hate seeing fan favorites sign these deals because they always end poorly,

 

[PM]

Dorsett would have been great to have on our 4th line in 2011. Today? No thank you.

Not at 2.5m. Even if he was playing as well as he was last year, 2.5m is way too much to dedicate towards one fourth line winger.

 

[Ho Borvat]

Not at 2.5m. Even if he was playing as well as he was last year, 2.5m is way too much to dedicate towards one fourth line winger.

Meh, as a deadline pickup (similar to Higgins/Lapierre) I would have had no issues with Dorsett. Having Kesler/Burrows/Bieksa/Lappy/Dorsett would have been possibly one of the most annoying lineups to play against for 7 games

Although I think Keith Ballard had to have the cap-cussion to allow us to acquire Higgins/Lappy IIRC

 

[Cupless44]

Slight difference between guys flagging a bit in the last years of deals that have been very good value and guys doing nothing as brand new acquisitions/contracts.

If Dorsett turned in 3 good-value years on his deal and was then struggling in year 4, nobody would mind too much. This is not the case.

I beg to differ. There are some of us who do mind. Don't get me wrong, I want Dorsett and Prust out of here but I also want Burrows and most of all, Higgins gone.

At some point you have to leave the sentimentality behind and get past 2011. I appreciate what Burrows did but 4 years where he is worth nowhere near 4.5 million is too much and his act with the slurs and everything has worn thin with me. More to the point, watching Burrows this year does nothing for me. I can't get into it just because "he slayed the dragon" 4 years ago. Good organizations like Chicago make good moves, and that includes moving on from guys that actually won Stanley Cups to set up the future, not overpay them for the next 4 years.

Higgins even worse. Every game you watch he does nothing out there. I no longer care that he was once a good deadline acquisition