Dorion Presser - April 12,18

[DrakeAndJosh]

- dont worry ill sleep well tonight.

Ok good just making sure.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Great. Thanks for establishing that, for the 5th time...

you're quite welcome, thanks for reading - come back any time

 

[Icelevel]

Listening to him on 1200.

He can not continue as gm here.
He is saying things about players and staff that he should keep to himself or at least word much differently. Imo

Go back to scouting please

 

[Micklebot]

The rumours I heard, was that the VGK wanted a 1st round pick to NOT pick Methot in the expansion draft.

Are you conflating the two situations?

What I'm referring to are the posters who suggested that the asking price for Ottawa didn't lower, and that Vegas held a grudge for Ottawa not meeting their initial demands. I'm sure you saw those posts, but if not, here's a couple examples,

Dorion states the Senators will offer Karlsson an extension on July 1

Dorion states the Senators will offer Karlsson an extension on July 1

 

[Daffy]

Listening to him on 1200.

He can not continue as gm here.
He is saying things about players and staff that he should keep to himself or at least word much differently. Imo

What did he say?

 

[TheBradyBunch]

- Sounds like there's a good chance Claesson will be back
- Dorion also said that Harpur is dominant in the AHL (more impactful than Chabot was, and he feels confident that he's not exaggerating there) but he needs to carry his confidence over to the NHL if he's gonna be successful
- Jack Rodewald might be a role player for us down the road
- He acknowledges that he might have given Boucher too much influence over the bottom half of the roster, but the decisions were his own and the responsibility for those moves is on him
- Acknowledges that he needs to be more far diligent and careful when distributing $ across the lines
- Will decide on coaching at ALL levels by the 1st week of May. No one is safe but no changes are guaranteed.
- Also, this came earlier, but he said if they decide to buyout a player they will be hyper-vigilant in ensuring the player is healthy and can be bought out.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

* The poster you are trying to reach has no interest in a discussion with you at this time.

"Dorion is a poor communicator!!!!", the pot screamed blindly at the kettle.

 

[Icelevel]

What did he say?

It's everything together. Have to listen to it all. And everything he's said before. It will increasingly bother players and staff under him if he continues speaking.

While listening, try to imagine any other NHL gm speaking like this.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Apparently Sens have discussed with more than one player that they could be bought out before the start of next year. Not sure if this has been discussed before, but could be good news to let some of our younger guys play (apparently also a focus of PD).

Who are our buyout candidates?

Gaborik
Condon
Burrows
Ryan

Ryan doesn't really save us any money because of the signing bonuses being buyout proof, so I think he'd be a major long shot.

I think with Gaborik, we're just better off waiting another season before deciding to buy him out. Maybe he ends up getting hurt, and insurance covers him 80 percent, or maybe the guy even gets bored of our stuffy government town and decides to eventually walk away from the few million he has left and retire with nearly 100 million earned and a super model wife.

Condon and Burrows make the most sense to me because while their buyouts don't really save us any real cash due to 1/3rd of their salary being very close to the cost of a replacement player, they are break even type buyouts. Burrows bought out+Gagne in his place for 1 year costs about the same as keeping Burrows, but the bonus is we develop a younger player instead of him.

With Condon, buying him out opens us up an average of about 900k a season for us to use on a replacement backup goalie. So at that point, we're not saving money, but if we can find a backup for around 1M who will outplay Condon, we're breaking even.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Did he actually say there was a rule? I don't remember hearing that.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200/dorion-if-boucher-is-back-things-will-need-to-change-1.1054834

37:00 - 37:50

 

[coladin]

Interesting... apparently the team got an email from the league saying they can't discuss a future contract on Karlsson with the media.

Last night , Melnyk positively shood him to keep quiet as Dorion hinted that something is brewing with Karlsson.

 

[coladin]

After he said he would take a Russian player if he was BPA, he explained that they haven't drafted a russian in a long time, and that there's "always exceptions to the rule." I chalk it up to him being a bit of a nervous speaker more than there being an actual rule .

Same, just a poor choice of words but everything he said was BPA, regardless of ethnicity

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

re: the "exception to the rule" thing, I watched the presser on video. Dorion basically said since he has been head scout there, they haven't drafted a single Russian, but there are no organizational issues against it. They would definitely take a Russian if he's BPA. He did add there are always exceptions to the rule, but I think he didn't mean it like it is normally said. I chalk it up to poor choice of words.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200/dorion-if-boucher-is-back-things-will-need-to-change-1.1054834

37:00 - 37:50

"I think when Bryan Murray hired his chief scout, I don't think we've drafted one Russian since. But there can be exceptions to the rule and, moving forward, we'll draft whomever is the best player."

I'm with @Smeddy on this one. I think that's an awkward turn of phrase, but not an admittance to any hard and fast rule. Reading him literally would also seem to imply that he's saying they haven't drafted whoever is the best player in the past, but as a communications guy myself I know there's not much to be taken out of that except for a nice easy way to end a sentence.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

It's everything together. Have to listen to it all. And everything he's said before. It will increasingly bother players and staff under him if he continues speaking.

While listening, try to imagine any other NHL gm speaking like this.

It took me a while to get my audio player working, but I basically wrote a point-by-point summary of what he said. What is so objectionable?

The only answer I can think of is that you are conflating your emotions with a tame & forward discussion in order to confirm your biases. Unless I missed something incredibly inflammatory before I was able to tune in.

 

[coladin]

Terry Marcotte's tweet, the first tweet that brought up the inclusion of Ryan is my guess. I think i have more connections than Marcotte lol.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I was happy with what I heard for the most part. Certainly better than the Town Halls, they should have just given Dorion the mic and told Eugene to stay home.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

TSN 1200 guys have asked before about extensions pre July 1st (Turris for example), and Dorion has always brought up how he can't talk about it because of the tampering rules and fines.

Saying at one of the town halls that they intend to offer Karlsson an 8 year deal might have been what got them in trouble if something did, but I am not certain. Those are specific terms. I don't know exactly how it works, but I am pretty sure there's nothing wrong with saying "We will sit down with Karlsson as soon as we can", or that "We intend to attempt to re-sign that player", but once a GM starts saying specific numbers pre July 1st, that might be tampering. Not sure though.

 

[Wondercarrot]

"Dorion is a poor communicator!!!!", the pot screamed blindly at the kettle.

lol, settle down skippy, you're embarassing yourself ive never dodged anyone here or anywhere else - i didnt respond (well in fact i did....with a joke - you know given how Dracula only responds to posts where hes comfortable, also doubled as a joke about not responding while in fact actually responding) because im still sorting out how someone would come to the defence of Bill O'Reilly and expect to be taken seriously

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Dorion could communicate better... agree with that notion.. but you do not have to be the best communicator to be a really good GM. Does anyone think Bill Belichick is a good communicator. I think part of Dorion's problem communicating is he tries to be a bit too much of a politician and he isn't very good at it... Questions on coaching... How would Belichick respond. "We are evaluating that it's not fair to comment on specifics now, next question". on Karlsson "We want him back, Can't comment any further regarding term or amounts" , next question. Dorion is inexperienced in that role and it shows .. in communication, and also in his decisions with the roster imo.. His decisions and actions with the roster and the coaching staff and the direction/philosohpy, are far more important to me than how he discusses the different aspects of the team.

 

[Icelevel]

Terry Marcotte's tweet, the first tweet that brought up the inclusion of Ryan is my guess. I think i have more connections than Marcotte lol.

Yes it is marcotte he is speaking of

 

[coladin]

What did he say?

He said a lot of good things, just not in a style that is pleasing to many. I think Melnyk should hire an actor to do this next time. I always loved the calming voice of Christopher Plummer.

 

[Micklebot]

Who are our buyout candidates?

Gaborik
Condon
Burrows
Ryan

Ryan doesn't really save us any money because of the signing bonuses being buyout proof, so I think he'd be a major long shot.

I think with Gaborik, we're just better off waiting another season before deciding to buy him out. Maybe he ends up getting hurt, and insurance covers him 80 percent, or maybe the guy even gets bored of our stuffy government town and decides to eventually walk away from the few million he has left and retire with nearly 100 million earned and a super model wife.

Condon and Burrows make the most sense to me because while their buyouts don't really save us any real cash due to 1/3rd of their salary being very close to the cost of a replacement player, they are break even type buyouts. Burrows bought out+Gagne in his place for 1 year costs about the same as keeping Burrows, but the bonus is we develop a younger player instead of him.

With Condon, buying him out opens us up an average of about 900k a season for us to use on a replacement backup goalie. So at that point, we're not saving money, but if we can find a backup for around 1M who will outplay Condon, we're breaking even.

So, I was on Capfriendly and discovered something today;

Buying out Anderson's contract doesn't affect the cap hit because he signed the deal at 35+, so if we were to buy him out, it's 1.5 mil a year for 4 years, but a cap hit of 4.75 for the first 2 years, and zero for year 3 and 4.

I think we bank on Anderson rebounding this coming year, rather than buying him out, but like I said, I learned something new.

On the topic of goalies, I'd explore sending our guys to guys (and goalie coach) to net360. Apparently that's where Dubnyk went right before rekindling his career. It's also where Hellebuyck went this past offseason.

 

[Micklebot]

re: the "exception to the rule" thing, I watched the presser on video. Dorion basically said since he has been head scout there, they haven't drafted a single Russian, but there are no organizational issues against it. They would definitely take a Russian if he's BPA. He did add there are always exceptions to the rule, but I think he didn't mean it like it is normally said. I chalk it up to poor choice of words.

Could he have meant exception to the rule of taking BPA, as in a particular player who might be considered a flight risk (like the Russian factor) because he's in that range where a KHL or European career can be just as or more financially beneficial?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

So, I was on Capfriendly and discovered something today;

Buying out Anderson's contract doesn't affect the cap hit because he signed the deal at 35+, so if we were to buy him out, it's 1.5 mil a year for 4 years, but a cap hit of 4.75 for the first 2 years, and zero for year 3 and 4.

I think we bank on Anderson rebounding this coming year, rather than buying him out, but like I said, I learned something new.

On the topic of goalies, I'd explore sending our guys to guys (and goalie coach) to net360. Apparently that's where Dubnyk went right before rekindling his career. It's also where Hellebuyck went this past offseason.

I don't think we'll be anywhere near the cap, so I think that cap hit will not prevent us from buying out Anderson if we choose to.

With that said, I would be surprised if we buy Anderson out. We've already lost a lot of our guys who might have been tight in the room (Mac, Methot, Turris, Phaneuf), and while Anderson had a terrible season, he had a lot of very good games to close out the new year where he put up .920+ type save percentages. That tells me, he is still capable of playing at a high level, we just need to find out what is causing the inconsistencies in his performance. Not to absolve him completely, but I think a big part of it has been the team in front of him and how poorly the system is being executed.

(Whether that's Boucher's fault for his system not being sustainable, or the players fault for not executing it, that's a different conversation)