WJC: Don Cherry: "American Development?!"

[PlagerBros*]

Most of you probably didn't hear it yourself - so you shouldn't be so quick to judge what was said.

I watched it. What I took from it was - Hey Canada, before you get freaked out that the American hockey program is getting a lot of attention right now, remember that Tavares, Stamkos, Kane, Duchene, O'Reilly, Myers, and Del Zotto were all eligible to play in this tournament but are playing key roles with their NHL teams...

He wasn't taking anything away from the American win - but rather wanted to ensure that Canada's program gets the respect it deserves.

I heard it and it was clear he was making an excuse for Canada losing and then trying to claim the US win was due to Canada developing the US players for them.

 

[New User Name]

I heard it and it was clear he was making an excuse for Canada losing and then trying to claim the US win was due to Canada developing the US players for them.

Oh well, different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[NewNameWhosThis]

Another Canadian blowhard tries to marginalize the USA WJC win. Not really surprising.


They play in Canada because you aren't going to get the same kind of elite training in the U.S as over there. Its the same reason why people come over to the U.S to learn how to play pro baseball and football.

 

[New User Name]

Another Canadian blowhard tries to marginalize the USA WJC win. Not really surprising.

Well you have more than your fair share too.
Remember the baseball classic?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

These kids played only a couple of years in the CHL. How about kids like John Toews, who played his hockey at UND, or Sidney Crosby, who played at Shattucks St Marys? Kids are developed all over the world, and heads up, not all teams in the CHL are even in Canada (if we are going to get particular). The Americans have done a great job of developing their kids in the United States. The USHL and NCAA are now excellent places to develop NHL stars.

 

[New User Name]

These kids played only a couple of years in the CHL. How about kids like John Toews, who played his hockey at UND, or Sidney Crosby, who played at Shattucks St Marys? Kids are developed all over the world, and heads up, not all teams in the CHL are even in Canada (if we are going to get particular). The Americans have done a great job of developing their kids in the United States. The USHL and NCAA are now excellent places to develop NHL stars.

Toews also played at Shattuck-Saint Mary's (2004-05)

 

[In The Flesh]

I love The Don, but Canada won 5 in a row, that should say it all about their program.

 

[Moobles]

A test of one game is just as legitimate of a test as seven or seventy games - they're just different tests. Even a test to determine which team is "better than all other plausible competition" is 1. not awfully specific, and 2. potential tautology.

I used this definition of best, not as my own but extrapolating what I thought people have said throughout this thread to try and make what I was setting out to argue more digestible. It is a poor definition, and realistically a subjective qualifier like "best" is not really ideal for any sort of discussion.

You could argue the empirical purpose of a tournament is to win. Certainly a single game determines who is a winner and who is a loser, and you could argue that the chances players get in one game are just as likely to occur as in any game, and in that sense one game is suffice. I understand that. I am merely saying that from a normative perspective, I feel that tournaments should do more than just determine a winner, but determine a team who has something over the other team more than just chance. You get a higher chance of that happening if you play more than 1 game.

Of course, you certainly give a longer chance for chance to come in as well (injuries, mental game, etc.) but I prefer those things to what happens otherwise. I'm not attempting to denigrate the US win, I just cringe a bit when people automatically make the assumption that teams are the best (both before when people say "Canada is the best hockey team in the world!!!!!!) and now.

Anyway, this my personal opinion, not a universal truth and perhaps I am misguided or wrong. I just posted it here cause that's what you do on a board.

 

[Analyzer*]

yeah but its Canada's game so they should have won gold right?

Well, when you have a ton of skilled guys on the team and almost none of them are hard workers, because they don't really have to carry the team... they tend to get lazy.

Not a Cherry fan but I totally agree with him on this. Besides I didn't take it as being anti American... it was more anti media.

Pretty much. The media blows.

I heard it and it was clear he was making an excuse for Canada losing and then trying to claim the US win was due to Canada developing the US players for them.

No, it was trying to tell the media that was saying "U.S. development is the best" that they were wrong. Obviously you don't understand English. Before he got all beat red, sweating and whatnot he said, not word for word, but close enough".. after the Americans won, all you hear on the tv and in the paper is how great american development is. How it's the best in the World, will let me tell you...Queue the start of Cherry freaking out. It pretty much looks like this.

+ a stupid looking suit.

 

[james bond]

This thread seems to be jumping around a little bit. The notion that Canadians that went to the US to make a living playing hockey, made a home and had kids that were born and raised in the US should be playing for Canada is stupid. If that were the case then there should be not be anybody playing for Canada or the US in any sport, period. Shouldnt then, Jerome Iginla be playing for Nigeria?

 

[RangerRed]

It's not an official IIHF tournament, the under 18 tournament is.

Which wasn't the original premise of the quote. The original argument was that Canada holds no major tournament victories which is untrue. If the original statement had been that Canada holds no current IIHF tournament victories that would be true. Hockey Canada doesn't hold the Spring U-18 in high esteem because most of their best players are still involved in the CHL playoffs. Which prevents the Spring U-18s from being a true best-on-best.

 

[TheBrew]

yeah but its Canada's game so they should have won gold right?

Correct

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Don Cherry is a redundant and silly relic.

1) The 2004 U.S. of A Roster who clown stomped the Canadians for gold had only 4 guys with CHL training.

2) With all due respect to the role players Cherry rattled off who were CHL-trained on the 2010 team, Stepan, Kristo, Damigo, Zucker, Kreider, and Schroeder never sniffed Canadian Junior Hockey and had a pretty fun and effortless time dismantling Canada's vaunted roster.

As for Carlson, it's typical of an aging and arrogant Canadian mouthpiece like Cherry to think that the whopping 59 games Carlson spent in the CHL is what made him a great player, even though he was drafted in the 1st round before he ever played a CHL game.

3) In 1992, 134 of the 264 players drafted were Canadian. Only 38 were American.

In 2000, 96 of the 293 players drafted were from Canada. 56 were American

In 2007, 102 of the 211 players drafted were Canadian. 63 were american.

See a trend? I do. Look at NHL rosters. Canadians barely make 60 percent of NHL rosters. In 1989, it was almost 90 percent. The best thing that happened to Canadian hockey was the KHL and the NCAA.


4) Cherry the idiot makes no mention of Gibson for the U-17's, who won the game for the US making 38 saves and played his midget hockey in Pittsburgh, not Canada.



It's not "your game" anymore. It's everybody's.

You may believe that North of the Border, but down here in America, we're proud of our American boys and the 90 percent of their hockey lives they spent getting trained in America by Americans

 

[canucksfan]

Which wasn't the original premise of the quote. The original argument was that Canada holds no major tournament victories which is untrue. If the original statement had been that Canada holds no current IIHF tournament victories that would be true. Hockey Canada doesn't hold the Spring U-18 in high esteem because most of their best players are still involved in the CHL playoffs. Which prevents the Spring U-18s from being a true best-on-best.

Well the Americans do not send their best team to the Ivan Hlinka tournament so that wouldn't be a true best on best either. I believe other countries do not take that tournament as seriously as the IIHF under 18 tournament. I classify any IIHF tournament to be a major tournament. Therefore the Ivan Hlinka tournament doesn't count.

 

[Moobles]

2) With all due respect to the role players Cherry rattled off who were CHL-trained on the 2010 team, Stepan, Kristo, Damigo, Zucker, Kreider, and Schroeder never sniffed Canadian Junior Hockey and had a pretty fun and effortless time dismantling Canada's vaunted roster.

By no means am I mourning Canada's loss in the WJC, but really? Effortless?

That's pretty disrespectful to the kids on both teams. It's not like the U.S. steamrolled Canada to an easy 10-0 win or something. It took every ounce of well-deserved effort for the US to pull out that win.

Don't forget Canada's won the last 5 and since 2004, their two worst two showings have been in the finals with a difference of 1 goal.

See a trend? I do. Look at NHL rosters. Canadians barely make 60 percent of NHL rosters. In 1989, it was almost 90 percent. The best thing that happened to Canadian hockey was the KHL and the NCAA.

We have 30 million people and make up 52% of the NHL. America has 10x the people and you make up 20. I'm all for that number getting pushed up but there's no need to be so hostile about it..

It's not "your game" anymore. It's everybody's.

You may believe that North of the Border, but down here in America, we're proud of our American boys and the 90 percent of their hockey lives they spent getting trained in America by Americans

A rant worthy of Cherry himself.

There are plenty of Canadians who help train Americans and vice versa. Most places go for the best coaches and aren't xenophobic when it comes to winning and producing winners.

 

[PlagerBros*]

Well, when you have a ton of skilled guys on the team and almost none of them are hard workers, because they don't really have to carry the team... they tend to get lazy.



Pretty much. The media blows.



No, it was trying to tell the media that was saying "U.S. development is the best" that they were wrong. Obviously you don't understand English. Before he got all beat red, sweating and whatnot he said, not word for word, but close enough".. after the Americans won, all you hear on the tv and in the paper is how great american development is. How it's the best in the World, will let me tell you...Queue the start of Cherry freaking out. It pretty much looks like this.

+ a stupid looking suit.

I speak English just fine. Apparently you simply have a very low comprehension level or it's simply your Canadian bias. Wow, see I can be a jerk just like you!

 

[Lososaurus]

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Don Cherry is a redundant and silly relic.

1) The 2004 U.S. of A Roster who clown stomped the Canadians for gold had only 4 guys with CHL training.

2) With all due respect to the role players Cherry rattled off who were CHL-trained on the 2010 team, Stepan, Kristo, Damigo, Zucker, Kreider, and Schroeder never sniffed Canadian Junior Hockey and had a pretty fun and effortless time dismantling Canada's vaunted roster.

As for Carlson, it's typical of an aging and arrogant Canadian mouthpiece like Cherry to think that the whopping 59 games Carlson spent in the CHL is what made him a great player, even though he was drafted in the 1st round before he ever played a CHL game.

3) In 1992, 134 of the 264 players drafted were Canadian. Only 38 were American.

In 2000, 96 of the 293 players drafted were from Canada. 56 were American

In 2007, 102 of the 211 players drafted were Canadian. 63 were american.

See a trend? I do. Look at NHL rosters. Canadians barely make 60 percent of NHL rosters. In 1989, it was almost 90 percent. The best thing that happened to Canadian hockey was the KHL and the NCAA.


4) Cherry the idiot makes no mention of Gibson for the U-17's, who won the game for the US making 38 saves and played his midget hockey in Pittsburgh, not Canada.



It's not "your game" anymore. It's everybody's.

You may believe that North of the Border, but down here in America, we're proud of our American boys and the 90 percent of their hockey lives they spent getting trained in America by Americans

Your draft numbers indicate that Canada whether it was 1992 or 2007 has roughly 50 percent of the draft picks. If anything the US is replacing European draft picks

But it is kind of hard to hear you with our 5 gold medals in our ears

 

[Stephen]

Don Cherry's right. While the Americans were winning with their A team, half of Canada's was missing because 6-7 of our kids are too busy being franchise players on pro hockey teams.

 

[Systemfel]

Not leading anywhere good.