Proposal: Doesn't Detroit need Cap relief to sign Larkin?

[WingsMJN2965]

Status quo is fine. DET will sell at the deadline. How long until the deadweight is gone by attrition? Just draft and develop in the interim.

Starts to shed this season.

2019 - Kronwall
2020 - Ericsson and Franzen
2021 - Helm and Zetterberg (And Weiss buyout)
2022 - DeKeyser and Nielsen
2023 - Abdelkader

So many RFAs on the team that it really wont hurt them. Plus, God only knows if we'll have another lockout and compliance buyout in those middle years.

 

[mpp9]

How in the hell is Detroit so close to the cap?

 

[WingsMJN2965]

How in the hell is Detroit so close to the cap?

Holland is as bad with UFAs as he is good with RFAs.

Signed 3rd line UFAs for 2nd line money with 1st line term.

 

[njx9]

mantha and larkin can be kept for now I suppose... or dealt... doesn't really matter. neither is likely to be an important part of a contending team in 5 seasons

That bit is particularly hilarious.

 

[YP44]

If they want to move Franzen's contract it will not cost them a first. Especially as it is only 2 years.

 

[CDN24]

Franzens LTIR will solve any cap problems this year. Zetterberg is at best 1 year away from LTIR. With the increase in the CAP and the moves made so fat not team is in CAP hell this year.

 

[YP44]

Franzens LTIR will solve any cap problems this year. Zetterberg is at best 1 year away from LTIR. With the increase in the CAP and the moves made so fat not team is in CAP hell this year.

only thing is Franzen cannot go on LTIR till the start of the year, so the team needs to be cap compliant to start the year and then can place him on LTIR. Do they have enough guys not requiring waivers to facilitate this and re-sign Larkin?

 

[Agalloch]

Put Franzen on LTIR and sign Larkin for a 2 years bridge.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

only thing is Franzen cannot go on LTIR till the start of the year, so the team needs to be cap compliant to start the year and then can place him on LTIR. Do they have enough guys not requiring waivers to facilitate this and re-sign Larkin?

Ya, it's already been said like a dozen times in this thread that you can LTIR in the offseason...

Put Franzen on LTIR and sign Larkin for a 2 years bridge.

Larkin's getting 5-6 years.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

That bit is particularly hilarious.

or sad... sadly I have a horrible track record of being extremely accurate with these types of predictions.

doesn't make me very popular. I said the same thing about tyler seguin… about phil kessel… about joe thornton… and quite a few other kid bruins. I didn't get them all right. said the same thing about david pastrnak and maybe im wrong about that one. I don't get it right every time

and admittedly I spend way more time analyzing my bruins then I do your red wings.

I just see a whole lot of suck in your near future... and suck is never good for development of young uns. most young uns get very discouraged by suck. a lot of them develop very bad habits and a losing attitude when they spend several years sucking.

its very normal for most teams to find it necessary to move their better players after 4-5 years of suck.

even steve yzerman was hotly in the trade rumors after his first few years of being stuck on a suck team. ultimately the yzerman story ended well for Detroit. scotty bowman famously sat yzerman down with a talk and helped reclaim the player and redevelop him into a winner.

you should know this story since its one of the more important ones in Detroit history.

I hope things work out for you guys... its not looking too pretty from where I sit right now. but your history is strong. if anyone can pull out of this in great shape it might be you guys

 

[CDN24]

only thing is Franzen cannot go on LTIR till the start of the year, so the team needs to be cap compliant to start the year and then can place him on LTIR. Do they have enough guys not requiring waivers to facilitate this and re-sign Larkin?

I am not a cap expert by any stretch. As I understand it you can use a player on LTIR on day one to get down to 78M. The trick is to have enough AAV so that you get down to 78 but not to far below.

Assume Det signs Larkin to a $4M AAV bridge contract and go into the season with a Cap hit 80.7 M incl Franzens salary (i just used todays cap friendly number plus $4M). They can then put Franzen on LTIR and something called the ACSL (Accruable Cap Space Limit) is set at 76.7M (80.7M - Franzens roughly 4M). This is allowed but you do not want to do it as the ACSL effectively becomes your new Salary Cap and anytime you are over that you must be using LTIR.

How do you get around it, add more salary on day One. leave a player on NHL roster and send him down later. So if you add 1.3M salary before designating Franzen to LTIR then you ACSL is closer to the 78M cap hit.

Again not an expert and something I say above may be wrong but it is certainly doable.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

or sad... sadly I have a horrible track record of being extremely accurate with these types of predictions.

doesn't make me very popular. I said the same thing about tyler seguin… about phil kessel… about joe thornton… and quite a few other kid bruins. I didn't get them all right. said the same thing about david pastrnak and maybe im wrong about that one. I don't get it right every time

and admittedly I spend way more time analyzing my bruins then I do your red wings.

I just see a whole lot of suck in your near future... and suck is never good for development of young uns. most young uns get very discouraged by suck. a lot of them develop very bad habits and a losing attitude when they spend several years sucking.

its very normal for most teams to find it necessary to move their better players after 4-5 years of suck.

even steve yzerman was hotly in the trade rumors after his first few years of being stuck on a suck team. ultimately the yzerman story ended well for Detroit. scotty bowman famously sat yzerman down with a talk and helped reclaim the player and redevelop him into a winner.

you should know this story since its one of the more important ones in Detroit history.

I hope things work out for you guys... its not looking too pretty from where I sit right now. but your history is strong. if anyone can pull out of this in great shape it might be you guys

They're certainly gonna suck for the next 2-3 years.

But adding 2-3 lottery picks onto Larkin/Zadina/Mantha/Rasmussen at forward and Hronek/Cholowski/McIsaac at defense could turn a pretty good team.

After the draft I compared Detroit to a pre-McDavid Edmonton. Lots of talent upfront, lacking on defense. But they're gonna get a couple top picks still to change that.

 

[njx9]

or sad... sadly I have a horrible track record of being extremely accurate with these types of predictions.

Cool. I've picked the lotto numbers right pretty often, too.

No one's suggesting the team is good today, but writing off a 21 year old center "just because" is laughable. Go for it if it makes you happy though, I guess.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Cool. I've picked the lotto numbers right pretty often, too.

No one's suggesting the team is good today, but writing off a 21 year old center "just because" is laughable. Go for it if it makes you happy though, I guess.

did I write him off... or just say that 4-5 years on a losing team isn't ideal and probably wont happen?

im sorry you take offense at this... but look at all the teams that went through 4-5 year rebuilds and see how very few of their early picks lasted through that rebuild in good shape

just telling you how history and the real world works.

I expect these players will go on to have good careers in other organizations if they get moved... or I expect that staying with one bad team might lead to a future like dale McCourt had if you remember your Detroit red wings history

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Much better off trading Larkin to Dallas and claiming he had attitude problems.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

They're certainly gonna suck for the next 2-3 years.

But adding 2-3 lottery picks onto Larkin/Zadina/Mantha/Rasmussen at forward and Hronek/Cholowski/McIsaac at defense could turn a pretty good team.

After the draft I compared Detroit to a pre-McDavid Edmonton. Lots of talent upfront, lacking on defense. But they're gonna get a couple top picks still to change that.

I think oilers are critically flawed even beyond mcdavids ability to fix... I would hope Detroit will do a much better job of laying down a base framework to build around that is financially feesible to substain and keep a pipeline open for additional incoming pieces that could support that base framework

oilers impressed a few people by hitting on draisailt and McDavid and possibly having a dman that looks ok too... but they have gotten NO HELP outside the first round of the draft. their supporting players are cast offs and never weres that other organizations are glad they aren't stuck with. half the defense in Edmonton is horrible overpaid and notorious for having let down seasons and under achieving.

the oiler example is NOT ONE Detroit should be aspiring towards {although wed all like to get the next number 1 overall pick when a McDavid might fall into our laps through sheer coincidence and dumb luck}

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

or sad... sadly I have a horrible track record of being extremely accurate with these types of predictions.

doesn't make me very popular. I said the same thing about tyler seguin… about phil kessel… about joe thornton… and quite a few other kid bruins. I didn't get them all right. said the same thing about david pastrnak and maybe im wrong about that one. I don't get it right every time

and admittedly I spend way more time analyzing my bruins then I do your red wings.

I just see a whole lot of suck in your near future... and suck is never good for development of young uns. most young uns get very discouraged by suck. a lot of them develop very bad habits and a losing attitude when they spend several years sucking.

its very normal for most teams to find it necessary to move their better players after 4-5 years of suck.

even steve yzerman was hotly in the trade rumors after his first few years of being stuck on a suck team. ultimately the yzerman story ended well for Detroit. scotty bowman famously sat yzerman down with a talk and helped reclaim the player and redevelop him into a winner.

you should know this story since its one of the more important ones in Detroit history.

I hope things work out for you guys... its not looking too pretty from where I sit right now. but your history is strong. if anyone can pull out of this in great shape it might be you guys

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

We don't have the privilege of having Peter Chiarelli as a GM, so I'm pretty sure all our recent first rounders will be around for while.

 

[njx9]

did I write him off... or just say that 4-5 years on a losing team isn't ideal and probably wont happen?

Seriously? you said:

mantha and larkin can be kept for now I suppose... or dealt... doesn't really matter. neither is likely to be an important part of a contending team in 5 seasons

You *literally* wrote him off.

im sorry you take offense at this... but look at all the teams that went through 4-5 year rebuilds and see how very few of their early picks lasted through that rebuild in good shape

I'm unclear why you think I'm taking offense. I've been very clear that I'm laughing at your suggestion.

just telling you how history and the real world works.

And simultaneously trying to tell me how much smarter you are than everyone else. It's cute.

I expect these players will go on to have good careers in other organizations if they get moved... or I expect that staying with one bad team might lead to a future like dale McCourt had if you remember your Detroit red wings history

Dale McCourt, who had three good seasons in the late 70s (while embroiled in a lengthy, bitter contractual issue with the NHL) before getting traded to someone else? How is he even remotely relevant? Did you just look up a random top pick, and then hope no one would bother thinking about it?

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Seriously? you said:



You *literally* wrote him off.



I'm unclear why you think I'm taking offense. I've been very clear that I'm laughing at your suggestion.



And simultaneously trying to tell me how much smarter you are than everyone else. It's cute.



Dale McCourt, who had three good seasons in the late 70s (while embroiled in a lengthy, bitter contractual issue with the NHL) before getting traded to someone else? How is he even remotely relevant? Did you just look up a random top pick, and then hope no one would bother thinking about it?

sorry. you are right about everything. i go hang my head in shame.

good luck with your hopes and wishes

 

[WingsMJN2965]

sorry. you are right about everything. i go hang my head in shame.

good luck with your hopes and wishes

 

[TML1967]

Kronwal, NYI 2nd, and a 2nd in 2019 and 2020 (Detroits)
For
Leivo/Borgman, Leafs 3rd in 2019 and 3rd in 2020.

Basically costs Detroit 2nd and moving down 1 rounds in each of the next 2 drafts.
Leafs play Kronwal as their #7. Leivo looks like he could be a decent player on a different team, Borgman was a decent #6 until Dermott came up and stole the role.

 

[njx9]

Kronwal, NYI 2nd, and a 2nd in 2019 and 2020 (Detroits)
For
Leivo/Borgman, Leafs 3rd in 2019 and 3rd in 2020.

Basically costs Detroit 2nd and moving down 1 rounds in each of the next 2 drafts.
Leafs play Kronwal as their #7. Leivo looks like he could be a decent player on a different team, Borgman was a decent #6 until Dermott came up and stole the role.

Why? Drop draft positions, for a rebuilding team, to lose salary it doesn't need to lose to gain players that don't help it? Leivo has less than no value to the Wings, and the team absolutely doesn't need bottom pair defenders.

Terrible.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Put Franzen on LTIR and sign Larkin for a 2 years bridge.

Not happening Larkin wants 6 x 6 and likely gets it.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Howard and Kronwall will be off though so it wont be an issue then.

Kronwall is gone, Don't bet against Howard not being back though. Probably something in the neighborhood of 2 x 3 similar to the Bernier deal.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Franzen, Hronek and 2 5th?

This has already been debunked several times, Just making yourself seem foolish.