Does this (the Sharks) make Mclellan look bad?

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

But they are upgrades to what we had when Nelson coached the team.

McDavid was an upgrade. The others were marginal.

Nelson had a .333 winning percentage. I guess that qualifies as good in Oiler country.

 

[McTrashBoat]

Keep in mind, TMac team had McDavid, Davidson, Sekera and Talbot

Not a great argument, Sekera and Talbot were shaky to start, and McDavid + Davidson missed 68 games this season

 

[Husker Du]

Two words, Martin Jones. A good goalie makes a good coach.

 

[CupofOil]

One sided. Lets tell the real story. Deboers took a very ordinary NJD team all the way to the final and gave even the Kings more trouble than they had a right to.

Jones, Polak, Spalding were hardly considered much of anything and were no more than routine additions. jebus Polak and Spalding are the definition of routine fill. lets not forget a lot of good players from two years ago no longer in the Sharks lineup. 2014 was a very good sharks club, also had a deep D. Another difference is Burns, under present tutelage shifting to an elite D this season.

It's still depth. Wouldn't you agree that Ward (a playoff boss), Donskoi and Martin were huge additions?

And again, ask Devils fans about DeBoer or better yet, read some of their DeBoer threads the last couple of years of his tenure for entertainment value. A lot of them despised the guy. Too attached to vets, wastes young talent, weak system play etc.

Here you go. Enjoy

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1800989&highlight=deboer

Look no further than the 1st post in the DeBoer fired thread and I quote "PRAISE THE LORD"

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Two words, Martin Jones. A good goalie makes a good coach.

Yeah, I'm kinda annoyed we missed the boat on Jones.

 

[oilinblood]

Ya, but its all circular, did DoBoer take over a better team with better players, or did he get more out of the players he had? It is hard to know, just doesn't make TM look great. Bottom line he had some very talented teams that never made that next step.

He took over a stacked team, perennially, and one that improved its D and goal and added a post season chipper goal scorer.

Pavs being captain lets JT sink into the background where he likes to be media wise, team functions wise.

DeBoer didnt tax his stars during the regular season on the pk. gave them less d-zone draws during the regular season, and wrked his 4 lines more evenly through the reg season and into the playoffs.

TMAc lived and died with his top players. Deboer uses his full bench more evenly and in their designated roles more often.
In return, Deboer coaches a heavy forecheck when leading, where as TMac would take his foot off the gas and tell the bench to trap. (likely the two sentences are related to eachother). play your stars hard...get lead...trap. Deboer...play everyone hard. Spread the pain. get lead. keep forechecking. keep pressing.

 

[Canovin]

McDavid was an upgrade. The others were marginal.

Nelson had a .333 winning percentage. I guess that qualifies as good in Oiler country.

Not a great argument, Sekera and Talbot were shaky to start, and McDavid + Davidson missed 68 games this season

Nelson took over when the team was in a complete mess after Eakins destroyed everyone's confidence. When the team was out of playoffs by Dec. He didn't have a fresh season like TMac did.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The Sharks added defence, improved their goaltending, and added secondary scoring. It's not that hard to figure out.

 

[Del Preston]

Ya, but its all circular, did DoBoer take over a better team with better players, or did he get more out of the players he had? It is hard to know, just doesn't make TM look great. Bottom line he had some very talented teams that never made that next step.

Donskoi
Ward
Martin
Jones

Four players the Sharks added in the offseason and have been huge in the playoffs. Elliotte Friedman mentioned this in the post-game.

There was a thread about this after Round 1 on the main board with responses from Sharks fans: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2068795

Lots of trolling to sift through but the Sharks fans who did respond gave good insight: TM is a good coach but the players needed a new voice, this is the deepest team San Jose has ever had, etc.

 

[McGoMcD]

He took over a stacked team, perennially, and one that improved its D and goal and added a post season chipper goal scorer.

He didnt tax his stars during the regular season on the pk. gave them less d-zone draws during the regular season, and wrked his 4 lines more evenly through the reg season and into the playoffs.

TMAc lived and died with his top players. Deboer uses his full bench more evenly and in their designated roles more often.
In return, Deboer coaches a heavy forecheck when leading, where as TMac would take his foot off the gas and tell the bench to trap. (likely the two sentences are related to eachother). play your stars hard...get lead...trap. Deboer...play everyone hard. Spread the pain. get lead. keep forechecking. keep pressing.

So, in short Deboer did a better job of coaching, I see what your getting at. but the results still are not all that positive for old TM. Doboer just seemed to get so much more out of his players...... I just hope TM has a bit of a chip on his shoulder this year to prove what he can do. He needs to get more out of some key players.

 

[Still DRAI]

The Sharks have a good lineup but not better than they had 2 yrs ago. Deboers made a huge difference with this team as Jumbo just said and its clear as day.

The Sharks are playing system hockey, excellent puck support, puck battles and everybody back.

This Sharks team has never played system hockey this well and has never had a PP this good.

Its hard to escape the coaching is better now.

Plus Deboers has been to the cup before and has been an excellent playoff coach.

Brent Burns has more powerplay goals and powerplay points than the Oilers defense.

All of them. All 14 players who have played on the blueline for the Oilers last season, Brent Burns is more effective than the sum total of their contribution on the powerplay.

In 2013-14, Burns had 2 powerplay goals and 11 points. In 2014-15, that total exploded to 7 powerplay goals and 24 points - similar to his 7 powerplay goals and 30 points this year. He, Pavelski, and Couture account for 76% of the powerplay goals scored so far in the playoffs (he has 4 already), and collectively share 58% of the total powerplay points earned.

The emergence of Brent Burns as a premiere offensive defenseman is a huge factor of this powerplay dominance.

Further Burns facts: He scored nearly as many total points (75) as our top six defensmen (80) combined, and almost as many goals (27) as every single d-man the Oilers played combined (28).

 

[Replacement*]

It's still depth. Wouldn't you agree that Ward (a playoff boss), Donskoi and Martin were huge additions?

And again, ask Devils fans about DeBoer or better yet, read some of their DeBoer threads the last couple of years of his tenure for entertainment value. A lot of them despised the guy. Too attached to vets, wastes young talent, weak system play etc.

Here you go. Enjoy

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1800989&highlight=deboer

Deboers took a routine club to the 6th game of the SC final. The most unlikely SC finalist since 2006. I'll take that actual accomplishment over what some dimwitted Devils fans have to say.

I'll also take Jumbo, post game tonight specifically crediting Deboers for the quantum turn around in the Sharks team and season and that he deserved huge credit.

That's from the horses mouth. The best player on the Sharks, and possibly in the NHl right now saying its Deboers.

You can argue that if you want to

 

[McGoMcD]

Deboers took a routine club to the 6th game of the SC final. The most unlikely SC finalist since 2006. I'll take that actual accomplishment over what some dimwitted Devils fans have to say.

I'll also take Jumbo, post game tonight specifically crediting Deboers for the quantum turn around in the Sharks team and season and that he deserved huge credit.

That's from the horses mouth. The best player on the Sharks, and possibly in the NHl right now saying its Deboers.

You can argue that if you want to

Ya, sort of why I started the thread. I get he had his beefs with TM, but man he just threw TM under the bus big time.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Yeah, I'm kinda annoyed we missed the boat on Jones.

Willing to trade the Oilers first for Jones? Talbot has been good and cost a fraction of the price.

 

[CupofOil]

Deboers took a routine club to the 6th game of the SC final. The most unlikely SC finalist since 2006. I'll take that actual accomplishment over what some dimwitted Devils fans have to say.

I'll also take Jumbo, post game tonight specifically crediting Deboers for the quantum turn around in the Sharks team and season and that he deserved huge credit.

That's from the horses mouth. The best player on the Sharks, and possibly in the NHl right now saying its Deboers.

You can argue that if you want to

And those same players heaped praise upon Mclellan upon his departure. Well I know Burns did at least.

Again, I'm not saying that DeBoer doesn't deserve some credit but there's absolutely no doubt that he walked into an ideal situation. A team that always needed that extra depth to get over the hump and was supplied that depth in the offseason.

Conversely, Mclellan walked into a lions den. An extremely flawed roster full of broken players who needed to be built up again. I thought he did an admirable job with this group all things considered. I'm more than happy with Mclellan as coach, some of you aren't. It is what it is.

 

[Replacement*]

The Sharks added defence, improved their goaltending, and added secondary scoring. It's not that hard to figure out.

Oh, here we go again. The Sharks had excellent and deep D personnel in 2014

Burns
Hannan
Vlasic
Stuart
Boyle
Braun

They had Niemi in net. not really much different, and probably better than Jones.

They had Havlat, Torres, to support offense.

Yet the present team adds Jones, Martin, Ward Donskoi, and they're automatically better?

On paper its a virtual saw off which team was better. Cept the current version plays a solid system game.

 

[Wheathead]

Clearly Nelson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> McLellan.

Hell, Nelson should be up there with the Oiler greats. Move over Sather!

 

[oobga]

Only thing this really solidified for me is that Woodcroft is nothing special as a PP coach. Up to Chia now to give McLellan a team that gives Him the opportunity to show he can motivate a good team to do something great.

 

[CupofOil]

Oh, here we go again. The Sharks had excellent and deep D personnel in 2014

Burns
Hannan
Vlasic
Stuart
Boyle
Braun

They had Niemi in net. not really much different, and probably better than Jones.

They had Havlat, Torres, to support offense.

Yet the present team adds Jones, Martin, Ward Donskoi, and they're automatically better?

On paper its a virtual saw off which team was better. Cept the current version plays a solid system game.

Seriously? Hannan, Stuart and Boyle all had seen much better days. The corpse of Marty Havlat? Torres who couldn't even stay on the ice? You're kidding, right?

 

[Replacement*]

And those same players heaped praise upon Mclellan upon his departure. Well I know Burns did at least.

Again, I'm not saying that DeBoer doesn't deserve some credit but there's absolutely no doubt that he walked into an ideal situation. A team that always needed that extra depth to get over the hump and was supplied that depth in the offseason.

Conversely, Mclellan walked into a lions den. An extremely flawed roster full of broken players who needed to be built up again. I thought he did an admirable job with this group all things considered.

Oh, the Oilers improved a palty 9 pts with outstanding seasons from Talbot, Drai, McDavid, Hall. But several players production and performance actually declined. hmmm

That's no real progress. like zero. The vast improvement in goaltending alone should have been good for a 10pt increase.

 

[Replacement*]

Seriously? Hannan, Stuart and Boyle all had seen much better days. Havlat? Torres who couldn't even stay on the ice? You're kidding, right?

Torres with goo guidance is a good player and somebody that had a 27 goal season and was a top 5 pick. An extremely talented player, more than Ward actually.

DAmn strait Deboers would get more out of Torres, Havlat. He gets more out of all players.

But thanks for missing the rest of the list, the solid D, and there being negligible if any difference in goaltending

See that 2nd goal Jones gave up tonight? He's good for a garbage goal like that every 2nd game.

 

[Wheathead]

Oh, the Oilers improved a palty 9 pts with outstanding seasons from Talbot, Drai, McDavid, Hall. But several players production and performance actually declined. hmmm

That's no real progress. like zero. The vast improvement in goaltending alone should have been good for a 10pt increase.

Oh hell, you know as well as I that the team the Oilers have is garbage.

Toe Blake couldn't coach this useless group of vegabonds to the playoffs.

 

[Aerchon]

No.

Thier current coach already gave a shout out to being put in a strong position to suceed because of the previous coaching staff.

They just got the right mix of players and personalities.

I don't believe coaching had much if anything to do with previous playoff chokes.

 

[CupofOil]

Torres with goo guidance is a good player and somebody that had a 27 goal season and was a top 5 pick. An extremely talented player, more than Ward actually.

You mean Raffi "10 goals in the last 4 seasons combined" Torres? I know that you're trying to prove how vastly superior DeBoer is over Mclellan but surely you can do better than this?

 

[Frank the Tank]

Look at the Oilers defensive group and then subtract Klefbom, which left the team with one NHL caliber defenseman who was not in the AHL or on waivers during the season (Sekera). And people want to blame the coach as the continued source of the Oilers' woes? We've become such a fragile group of fans