Does McDavid match Ovi's peak with another awards sweep?

[illpucks]

Peak Ovi
Lindsay, Ross, Hart, Rocket
Lindsay, Hart, Rocket
Lindsay

McDavid
Ross, Lindsay hart
Ross, Lindsay
Ross, Lindsay, Hart (hypothetical)

????

Click to read more...

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Peak Ovi
Lindsay, Ross, Hart, Rocket
Lindsay, Hart, Rocket
Lindsay

McDavid
Ross, Lindsay hart
Hart, Lindsay
Ross, Lindsay, Hart (hypothetical)

????

McDavid didn't win the Hart last year?

 

[illpucks]

McDavid didn't win the Hart last year?

Fixed

 

[hockeykicker]

he scored 65 goals? he had multiple 50 goal seasons? news to me

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

he scored 65 goals? he had multiple 50 goal seasons? news to me

I'm not saying McDavid's peak *would* surpass Ovechkin's, but you're not being very neutral if you're just focusing on goal totals.

 

[hockeykicker]

I'm not saying McDavid's peak *would* surpass Ovechkin's, but you're not being very neutral if you're just focusing on goal totals.

well just like he is being neutral with awards based off competition. when ovechkin won he was going up against crosby etc
for example during his first mvp- 65 goal season. there were 2 other 50 goal scorers and malkin with 47. point wise there two guys with 106 plus points in malkin and ovechkin
his second mvp 08-09, he was second in points behind malkin who had 113, oveckin 110 and ovie had 56 goals
09-10 when he barely lost to sedin for mvp, there were 3 50 goal scorers and 4 guys with 100 or more points

now lets flip this
mcdavid since he came into nhl played three seasons. during that time there has been
2015-16, ovie over 50 goals and kane over 100 points. no one over 90 points beside kane
2016-17 year he won mvp. no one 50 goals, crosby 44, kucherov and matthews 40, mcdavid 100 points, no one else over 90
2017-18 this was the first year we had multiple 100 point guys when mcdavid was in nhl

first, mcdavid is an incredible talent and a superstar. but the point is, while he is amazing, there were far more 50 goal scorers and 100 point guys during ovie prime then there is during mcdavid prime

 

[nbwingsfan]

he scored 65 goals? he had multiple 50 goal seasons? news to me

Well using goals to determine a playmaker is a interesting choice.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Okay? I wasn't talking about the quality of the competition. I agree with you that I think McDavid's had it "easier" in that he's not competing for awards against another prime/peak generational talent like Crosby and Ovechkin had to do (and Malkin, too). I was just talking about you bringing up goal totals, as though unless McDavid ever scores 65 goals, his peak can never be considered better.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

well just like he is being neutral with awards based off competition. when ovechkin won he was going up against crosby etc
for example during his first mvp- 65 goal season. there were 2 other 50 goal scorers and malkin with 47. point wise there two guys with 106 plus points in malkin and ovechkin
his second mvp 08-09, he was second in points behind malkin who had 113, oveckin 110 and ovie had 56 goals
09-10 when he barely lost to sedin for mvp, there were 3 50 goal scorers and 4 guys with 100 or more points

now lets flip this
mcdavid since he came into nhl played three seasons. during that time there has been
2015-16, ovie over 50 goals and kane over 100 points. no one over 90 points beside kane
2016-17 year he won mvp. no one 50 goals, crosby 44, kucherov and matthews 40, mcdavid 100 points, no one else over 90
2017-18 this was the first year we had multiple 100 point guys when mcdavid was in nhl

first, mcdavid is an incredible talent and a superstar. but the point is, while he is amazing, there were far more 50 goal scorers and 100 point guys during ovie prime then there is during mcdavid prime

So that just means scoring was easier, using your argument should devalue ovechkin

 

[Regal]

well just like he is being neutral with awards based off competition. when ovechkin won he was going up against crosby etc
for example during his first mvp- 65 goal season. there were 2 other 50 goal scorers and malkin with 47. point wise there two guys with 106 plus points in malkin and ovechkin
his second mvp 08-09, he was second in points behind malkin who had 113, oveckin 110 and ovie had 56 goals
09-10 when he barely lost to sedin for mvp, there were 3 50 goal scorers and 4 guys with 100 or more points

now lets flip this
mcdavid since he came into nhl played three seasons. during that time there has been
2015-16, ovie over 50 goals and kane over 100 points. no one over 90 points beside kane
2016-17 year he won mvp. no one 50 goals, crosby 44, kucherov and matthews 40, mcdavid 100 points, no one else over 90
2017-18 this was the first year we had multiple 100 point guys when mcdavid was in nhl

first, mcdavid is an incredible talent and a superstar. but the point is, while he is amazing, there were far more 50 goal scorers and 100 point guys during ovie prime then there is during mcdavid prime

That just puts their scoring in context.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

McDavid will work his way to being known as the better hockey player.

Ovechkin will always be considered the better goal scorer.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Eh, I think prime Crosby & Malkin are better competition than anything McDavid has faced. Ovie also has several playoffs better than anything McDavid has, so far.

 

[Sam Spade]

No. And because of the actual numbers it's not even close.

 

[filinski77]

Nope.

I don't doubt at all that when it's all said and done, McDavid will go down as a greater player than Ovi, but Ovi's peak was so amazing, which is part of what bumps up his whole career.

Adjusting Ovi's 3 season Peak to 82 games: 112, 114, 124 points and 65, 58, 57 goals

Even if McDavid scores 115 points next year, unless he's at 55 goals + there is no way he'll compensate for Ovi's 65 goal run.

 

[Bank Shot]

Nope.

I don't doubt at all that when it's all said and done, McDavid will go down as a greater player than Ovi, but Ovi's peak was so amazing, which is part of what bumps up his whole career.

Adjusting Ovi's 3 season Peak to 82 games: 112, 114, 124 points and 65, 58, 57 goals

Even if McDavid scores 115 points next year, unless he's at 55 goals + there is no way he'll compensate for Ovi's 65 goal run.

It all depends. If Mcdavid scores 115 and no one else hits 90 points you might say that's a season that rivals any of Ovechkin's.

 

[filinski77]

It all depends. If Mcdavid scores 115 and no one else hits 90 points you might say that's a season that rivals any of Ovechkin's.

I agree, however in the current state of the NHL, I can't see season where no other players score 90, and McDavid scores 115.

 

[Bank Shot]

I agree, however in the current state of the NHL, I can't see season where no other players score 90, and McDavid scores 115.

Well he is substantially better than everyone else.

If he ever has a season where he gets all the breaks....look out.

 

[txpd]

I'm not saying McDavid's peak *would* surpass Ovechkin's, but you're not being very neutral if you're just focusing on goal totals.

As pointed out in the OP Ovechkin earned 4 awards in one season. Goals, points, mvp, and best player. McDavid had never earned more than 3.

By definition 3 isn't as good as 4

 

[North Cole]

Peak Ovi
Lindsay, Ross, Hart, Rocket
Lindsay, Hart, Rocket
Lindsay

McDavid
Ross, Lindsay hart
Ross, Lindsay
Ross, Lindsay, Hart (hypothetical)

????

I'm not sure he does, I think it's close because of the year where OV only won a lindsay. The problem is that one of those years Ovechkin won all four, which is seriously underrated around here imo. It's also one of the major features of why I think he had the best peak of the three for his era.

McDavid is gonna need to build his legacy by one peak monster season of 120ish points where he wins at least 3 awards, then having a prime that neither of the big three have. I can already see the big knock on him being - he had no competition...in fact you already see it in this thread. The only way to silence these people is for him to go on a tear like jagr where he wins 4 Ross in a row and at least 2 more in his career. With multiple harts and maybe a rocket.

Ovechkin had the best peak in the last 20 years in my mind. He will always be the guy for me in that era, I know hf has unanimously decided it's Crosby but I think they are way closer then this site lets on. But the thread isn't about them so I'll not derail it.

TL;DR. It will be very difficult for him to match OVs peak, we need to make the playoffs, like now (with him destroying the league). But I think he has a chance to run over Ovechkins prime a little. He needs to do what Crosby showed he could without the injuries, and I think he can.

 

[illpucks]

I'm not sure he does, I think it's close because of the year where OV only won a lindsay. The problem is that one of those years Ovechkin won all four, which is seriously underrated around here imo. It's also one of the major features of why I think he had the best peak of the three for his era.

McDavid is gonna need to build his legacy by one peak monster season of 120ish points where he wins at least 3 awards, then having a prime that neither of the big three have. I can already see the big knock on him being - he had no competition...in fact you already see it in this thread. The only way to silence these people is for him to go on a tear like jagr where he wins 4 Ross in a row and at least 2 more in his career. With multiple harts and maybe a rocket.

Ovechkin had the best peak in the last 20 years in my mind. He will always be the guy for me in that era, I know hf has unanimously decided it's Crosby but I think they are way closer then this site lets on. But the thread isn't about them so I'll not derail it.

TL;DR. It will be very difficult for him to match OVs peak, we need to make the playoffs, like now (with him destroying the league). But I think he has a chance to run over Ovechkins prime a little. He needs to do what Crosby showed he could without the injuries, and I think he can.

The year where Ovi won only the Lindsay was his best year
- Lost Art Ross by 3 points with 10 less games than Sedin
- Lost Rocket by 1 goal with 10 less games than Stamkos/Crosby
- Lost Hart because voters wanted to punish him for the suspension. On merit he was way more worthy than Sedin

 

[North Cole]

The year where Ovi won only the Lindsay was his best year
- Lost Art Ross by 3 points with 10 less games than Sedin
- Lost Rocket by 1 goal with 10 less games than Stamkos/Crosby
- Lost Hart because voters wanted to punish him for the suspension. On merit he was way more worthy than Sedin

Yes, perhaps he was "statistically" better than his counterparts; however, they won the awards and he did not. Logically, I cannot punish them for playing the whole season. OV gets major marks for his durability, but now that it benefits him to use ppg, we should? No.

If I did I would be a hypocrite because I think Ovechkin was a better player than Crosby. If I give Crosby a whole bunch of credit for ppg and missed games like you're saying I should for Ov, then he is superior to OV hands down. It's the same for the people who try to extrapolate Mario's stats to say he was as good as 99. 99 played his career, we have to give him credit for that. In this particular season it works against Ovechkin as he did not win the awards/play the games.

No matter which way you try to spin it:

3 Ross, 3 Lindsay, 2 hart
Looks slightly better to me than:
3 Lindsay, 2 rocket, 2 hart, 1 Ross.

Although a less "versatile" trophy case, I personally think the Ross is more prestigious. I understand it's subjective and this why I said, "I don't think he does, but it's close" WRT to their matching peaks.

Edit - for the record this means nothing if Mcdavid doesn't win any trophies this year. Also, I'm pretty sure his 65g season was his best....since it has yet to be duplicated. While a number of players, most recently Mackinnon, had monster ppg/gpg years and walked away with nothing, not even the Lindsay because they didn't finish the whole season. That's what I don't get about this site.. there's guys every year like Crosby, Marchand, Mackinnon, etc. Monster per game stats but they win no awards and yet for Crosby, he gets lauded for it while others are forgotten. I get that he has been consistent, but its strange to me.

 

[Fantomas]

If you compare their goals created or adjusted goals created on hockey-reference, McDavid is not close to Ovechkin's peak yet.

I'm sure he will be as good or better in a few years though.

 

[Midnight Judges]

The thing that is getting lost in all the number crunching is that Ovechkin is also a dominating punishing physical freak.

 

[Riddum]

McDavid has already shown he has a much higher ceiling than Ovechkin and Crosby.

McDavid is skating towards a level of dominance not seen since Prime Jagr. If he wins another Ross/Lindsay, the greatest players in the past 30 years will be, undisputed, Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr, McDavid

 

[Regal]

The thing that is getting lost in all the number crunching is that Ovechkin is also a dominating punishing physical freak.

Physicality doesn't have much practical value in itself. It's a tool players can use to get their results. It's value is already going to be evident in his possession, goal differential and point totals.