Does Marleau need a cup to be a hof player

[SlickHands]

1000 points and 500 goals, either of those will get you into the HHOF with or without a cup.

There are 20 guys who have hit the 1000 point mark AND are eligible and are not in yet. Some of them obviously will be, but it's not a guarantee.

However, with the precedent the committee has set, Marleau will make it in. No question. It's very much a Hall of Durability more than anything else at this point. I think he's got a really similar resume to a guy like Andreychuk.

That being said, if it were up to me, he wouldn't be in. I'm more partial to a player like Bure, with a limited resume, but someone who was arguably one of the best in the game (especially as a goal scorer) for a few years, than a guy who was never a top 10 player at any point.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Yet not everybody who played during the 80's scored 640 goals. 640 goals is still in the top 20 ALL TIME. Too many goals to leave out of the HOF. The only reason he made the HOF was because of his 640 goals, and you know what, it's good enough of a reason.



Agreed. Marleau belongs in the HOF.



Except I've been saying Marleau belongs in the HOF this entire time.



Well you're wrong based on standards that have been set. The HOF has made it quite clear you do NOT have to be an elite player to make it.



I understand. People have different standards for what a HOF'er and what isn't. My opinion is that you do NOT need to be an elite player in order to have a HOF career.

The only reason Andreychuk hit 640 goals is because he was able to stick around for another 10 years, remain healthy, and score 20 or so goals. But he never hit 30 goals again.

From ‘96-‘06 he had 192 goals in 714 games. That’s an average 22 goals and only 45 points. He was the definition of compiler, and he was able to ride the coat tails of a great Tampa team to a cup. That was his ticket. His 640 goals isn’t nearly as impressive as you make it out to be.

 

[Apotheosis]

Hall of decent but not HOF. Had a decent peak all things considered, but his stats look better because he's been playing for so long. A cup doesn't change the fact that he's never even topped 90 points.

 

[deckercky]

Worth noting that if he wins a Cup, he probably contributes as more than a passenger (Cup winners always have good depth scoring), and he could easily reach top 10 all time in playoff goals, which is a pretty impressive feat.

 

[Maplebeasts]

He shouldn't be a HOFer. He's a classic case of a compiler and has no individual hardware.

 

[ottawa]

Not even close.

 

[ottawa]

Did you read the post?

He's right and you're wrong.

Marleau does NOT stack up to the guys mentioned, especially in terms of hardware

 

[MyBudJT]

He's right and you're wrong.

Marleau does NOT stack up to the guys mentioned, especially in terms of hardware

Yet Marleau somehow has more Goals and Points and Games Played than most of them...

 

[ottawa]

Yet Marleau somehow has more Goals and Points and Games Played than most of them...

He only has more points than Martin St Louis and Paul Kariya (300 more points in almost 900 games than both combined). Marleau has by far the lowest PPG among all those forwards

 

[MyBudJT]

He only has more points than Martin St Louis and Paul Kariya (300 more points in almost 900 games than both combined). Marleau has by far the lowest PPG among all those forwards

For the hundredth time, who cares? Why does PPG matter? Where does it say anywhere that PPG matters to make the HHOF?

Nobody is saying Marleau is the most skilled player in the world... Marleau is a lock for the HHOF because he has reached milestones that very few hockey players have acheived.

He has played 1600+ NHL hockey games
He will have scored 550+ NHL goals
He will have scored 1150+ NHL points
He will have scored 106+ NHL game winning goals
He will have played more than 180 playoff games
He will retire with 2 olympic gold medals, and four international gold medals.

Marleau isn't a HOFer for his skill or 'eliteness'. He's a HOFer for his career accomplishments that not many people have matched.

 

[ottawa]

For the hundredth time, who cares? Why does PPG matter? Where does it say anywhere that PPG matters to make the HHOF?

Nobody is saying Marleau is the most skilled player in the world... Marleau is a lock for the HHOF because he has reached milestones that very few hockey players have acheived.

He has played 1600+ NHL hockey games
He will have scored 550+ NHL goals
He will have scored 1150+ NHL points
He will have scored 106+ NHL game winning goals
He will have played more than 180 playoff games
He will retire with 2 olympic gold medals, and four international gold medals.

Marleau isn't a HOFer for his skill or 'eliteness'. He's a HOFer for his career accomplishments that not many people have matched.

Games? meh
Goals? nice
Points? nice
Game winners? meh
Playoff games? meh
Medals? nice

Whole lot of nothing compared to other guys...no hardware aside from medals and that nice goal line.

 

[MyBudJT]

Games? meh
Goals? nice
Points? nice
Game winners? meh
Playoff games? meh
Medals? nice

Whole lot of nothing compared to other guys...no hardware aside from medals and that nice goal line.

Again, this is just your opinion. A player makes the Hall of Fame for their contirbutions to the game of hockey. Any player that has played 1600+ games in the best league in hockey has contriuted an awful lot to the game of hockey.

 

[ottawa]

Again, this is just your opinion. A player makes the Hall of Fame for their contirbutions to the game of hockey. Any player that has played 1600+ games in the best league in hockey has contriuted an awful lot to the game of hockey.

You keep emphasizing heavily on games played. Has every player with 1600+ games made the HoF? if not, then your whole point is moot. If yes, then he'll get in as well.

 

[Neutrinos]

Team accomplishments are irrelevant when evaluating whether a player should be inducted into the Hall of Fame

 

[GreatGonzo]

For the hundredth time, who cares? Why does PPG matter? Where does it say anywhere that PPG matters to make the HHOF?

Nobody is saying Marleau is the most skilled player in the world... Marleau is a lock for the HHOF because he has reached milestones that very few hockey players have acheived.

He has played 1600+ NHL hockey games
He will have scored 550+ NHL goals
He will have scored 1150+ NHL points
He will have scored 106+ NHL game winning goals
He will have played more than 180 playoff games
He will retire with 2 olympic gold medals, and four international gold medals.

Marleau isn't a HOFer for his skill or 'eliteness'. He's a HOFer for his career accomplishments that not many people have matched.

So the HOF shouldn’t be reserved for great skill or “eliteness?”

Thank god you don’t vote for the inductees

 

[Dustin]

So the HOF shouldn’t be reserved for great skill or “eliteness?”

Thank god you don’t vote for the inductees

The problem with this argument is what is elite? Furthermore there are already several players in the Hall that many would not consider elite.

The very reason the requirements for the Hall are ambiguous is for that reason. Impact on the game of hockey can be viewed in many different ways. Hitting milestones is certainly one of them and in Marleau's unique situation he will have hit some that have generally been accepted as "Hall worthy".

 

[MyBudJT]

So the HOF shouldn’t be reserved for great skill or “eliteness?”

Thank god you don’t vote for the inductees

I didn't say that. You got that from my posts how? There are multiple reasons why a player could be HHOF worthy.

You keep emphasizing heavily on games played. Has every player with 1600+ games made the HoF? if not, then your whole point is moot. If yes, then he'll get in as well.

Yes. Every player that has played 1600+ games are in the HHOF.

 

[ottawa]

I didn't say that. You got that from my posts how? There are multiple reasons why a player could be HHOF worthy.




Yes. Every player that has played 1600+ games are in the HHOF.

Jagr?

 

[Fantomas]

Yes. Every player that has played 1600+ games are in the HHOF.

Very interesting. Here's the list: NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Games Played | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

I want Marleau in regardless- I find being overly selective about the HoF odd. Like, we know who the best of the best were, who were right behind them, and who is kinda lucky to be inducted. We know he'd be a lower tier guy in the hall. But he's a gamer, a great guy, and he's made positive contributions to the game for 20 years. It'd mean a lot to some fans, and if you don't like it you can just walk past his plaque. It's that easy. It adds a lot for some fans, but on the other side you can just ignore the couple guys you think too borderline to pay respects to.

Shit, I do that already to some degree. I marvel over Orr, his stats, and what could have been. I look at Andreychuk.. "huh, so he played awhile, huh?"

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

You keep emphasizing heavily on games played. Has every player with 1600+ games made the HoF? if not, then your whole point is moot. If yes, then he'll get in as well.

Only 11 players have ever done it:

Gordie Howe
Mark Messier
Jaromír Jágr
Ron Francis
Mark Recchi
Chris Chelios
Dave Andreychuk
Scott Stevens
Patrick Marleau
Larry Murphy
Ray Bourque

 

[GreatGonzo]

I didn't say that. You got that from my posts how? There are multiple reasons why a player could be HHOF worthy.




Yes. Every player that has played 1600+ games are in the HHOF.

You do realize that inducting Marleau takes away that whole idea right?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

So the HOF shouldn’t be reserved for great skill or “eliteness?”

Thank god you don’t vote for the inductees

I think most people have said they wouldn't put him in (wish the bar was higher) but that based on who IS in, he has a shot.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Hes not going in the hall.

 

[GreatGonzo]

The problem with this argument is what is elite? Furthermore there are already several players in the Hall that many would not consider elite.

The very reason the requirements for the Hall are ambiguous is for that reason. Impact on the game of hockey can be viewed in many different ways. Hitting milestones is certainly one of them and in Marleau's unique situation he will have hit some that have generally been accepted as "Hall worthy".

I’m not one to continue a trend of weak inductions just because they let in a few stinkers.

Is the term “elite” really need to be better explained? Usually elite implies that they are among the best at whatever they do. Marleau has never been among the best at anything, other than staying healthy. Not every play can be elite or play at an elite level. That’s the point of that categorization