Does Garth get back more value at the deadline for Vanek than he gave up?

[ScaredStreit]

We gained Vanek for however many games. It didn't help the team, but he was a gain. He's produced more than Moulson. We gained the ability to try and sign Vanek early/offer a 8th year if need be. It didn't work, but those are things that were gained. Those two things have to have some value.

Vanek >>>> Moulson we agree.

But in professional sports it's results that matter. The only stat that matters at the end of the years is points (team points), and the timing was wrong to acquire Vanek. The season has proven that to be true. (notice I don't blame anything on Vanek-I actually like him).

But if you honestly think that there was ever a chance that the Isles were going to re-sign Vanek you're kidding yourself. When's the last time we signed/re-signed a star player who was a UFA?

I wouldn't be as upset over the trade if Snow actually offered him a good contract-because the one he offered was a complete joke. I don't blame Vanek for leaving one bit-I would do the same thing.

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

We gained Vanek for however many games. It didn't help the team, but he was a gain. He's produced more than Moulson. We gained the ability to try and sign Vanek early/offer a 8th year if need be. It didn't work, but those are things that were gained. Those two things have to have some value.

It holds zero value. Maybe we are a bottom 6/7 team instead of bottom5 if we never made the trade. Either way the team sucks.

 

[tag0519]

My vote is no. "No" by default.

The recent news is a trade with LA for one (or more) of their young solid defensemen. The reason LA has solid defensemen is they play under a solid defensive system under a top notch coach. When these young defensemen come here under Capuano's "system" they'll regress.

 

[disles1]

Snow is an idiot but even I have faith Moulson would have been dealt or signed by the deadline

Who did we get for PA, Satan and Blake again.....I forgot

Why would it be different this time?

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

Who did we get for PA, Satan and Blake again.....I forgot

Why would it be different this time?

Your logic can be used to say that Snow will hold onto Vanek and Amac because he did it with PAP, Satan, and Blake.

Why would it be different this time?

 

[disles1]

So you're argument is that Snow didn't intend on trading Blake, and therefore waited for time to run out before submitting the trade along with Anaheim-so he could keep Blake the whole time? Really?



PS: This was reported among several sources, and was commong knowledge back on HF in 2007. I'm sure you can google the incident, or go back in the forum here and find all of the sources. What exactly aren't you buying?

Did Garth trade Blake? yes or no? No. A trade never happened. That's my argument.
If Garth wanted to he could have. You said he did. You are wrong.

 

[PK Cronin]

Vanek >>>> Moulson we agree.

But in professional sports it's results that matter. The only stat that matters at the end of the years is points (team points), and the timing was wrong to acquire Vanek. The season has proven that to be true. (notice I don't blame anything on Vanek-I actually like him).

But if you honestly think that there was ever a chance that the Isles were going to re-sign Vanek you're kidding yourself. When's the last time we signed/re-signed a star player who was a UFA?

I wouldn't be as upset over the trade if Snow actually offered him a good contract-because the one he offered was a complete joke. I don't blame Vanek for leaving one bit-I would do the same thing.

There is value to potentiality, whether you agree or not. It's just a matter of how much that was actually worth (which will vary from person to person).

It holds zero value. Maybe we are a bottom 6/7 team instead of bottom5 if we never made the trade. Either way the team sucks.

We gained Vanek's production over Moulson's.
We gained the potential to resign Vanek.

Both of those had/have value, regardless of the standings.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Who did we get for PA, Satan and Blake again.....I forgot

Why would it be different this time?

If you're so dead set on the idea that Snow doesn't trade away pending UFAs....why did you start a poll under the assumption that Vanek is going to be traded?

 

[ScaredStreit]

Did Garth trade Blake? yes or no? No. A trade never happened. That's my argument.
If Garth wanted to he could have. You said he did. You are wrong.

Garth attempted to trade-and agreed to trade Blake. Better? You're just playing semantics and you know it, since your first post regarding Blake says that Snow never intended on trading him.

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

There is value to potentiality, whether you agree or not. It's just a matter of how much that was actually worth (which will vary from person to person).

We gained Vanek's production over Moulson's.
We gained the potential to resign Vanek.

Both of those had/have value, regardless of the standings.

There is some value I suppose. If Vanek signs with us as a UFA it is huge value. If Vanek walks as expected it holds the value of a roll of Scotts industrial toilet paper

 

[disles1]

Your logic can be used to say that Snow will hold onto Vanek and Amac because he did it with PAP, Satan, and Blake.

Why would it be different this time?

Agreed. That's why I changed my vote Hey- I'm not a big Garth supporter. I just think we should wait to see what we get back before going crazy and ripping him.

If we get a top prospect back & a 1st I'll be ok with it.

 

[PK Cronin]

There is some value I suppose. If Vanek signs with us as a UFA it is huge value. If Vanek walks as expected it holds the value of a roll of Scotts industrial toilet paper

Values of potential aren't based off the outcome, you're valuing the potential.

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

Agreed. That's why I changed my vote Hey- I'm not a big Garth supporter. I just think we should wait to see what we get back before going crazy and ripping him.

If we get a top prospect back & a 1st I'll be ok with it.

I hope we get huge value back for Vanek too. I doubt we get back more than a high 1st round pick, a high 2nd round pick plus whatever Moulson fetches.

 

[Retail1LO*]

Truthfully, this was piss poor asset management all the way around. Since Vanek isn't taking this team anywhere, and isn't getting signed, all you basically did was give away a 1st round pick, and Moulsson. Now you can't get anything for Moulsson because he's gone. You blew whatever return you could get for him by trading him and a 1st for Vanek. You're going to get less for Vanek than what you gave up...and that's just the way it is. Buffalo made out like a bandit in this thing.

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

Values of potential aren't based off the outcome, you're valuing the potential.

I am valuing the potential, I still think its worthless value. If we offered Vanek more money than anyone else on 7/1 and Vanek never played for us the chances of him signing are higher than our pathetic low ball offer after he played here for 3 months.

 

[Paulinho]

Who did we get for PA, Satan and Blake again.....I forgot

Why would it be different this time?

Common sense.

1. Team completely out of the race.
2. Snow has zero interest in bringing back Moulson.
3. Snow already dealt Moulson clearly showing a willingness to move him.
4. Moulson's trade value is high, why would Snow not want a 1st for a player he doesn't even want? Snow might be a bad GM but he isn't brain dead.

Logic says you're wrong, dead wrong.

 

[Yashin for President]

Truthfully, this was piss poor asset management all the way around. Since Vanek isn't taking this team anywhere, and isn't getting signed, all you basically did was give away a 1st round pick, and Moulsson. Now you can't get anything for Moulsson because he's gone. You blew whatever return you could get for him by trading him and a 1st for Vanek. You're going to get less for Vanek than what you gave up...and that's just the way it is. Buffalo made out like a bandit in this thing.

If the Isles didnt lose Visnovsky and Nabakov for a long period of time they would be in the playoff picture. Snow had to overpay to get him in October as well. He got the chance to try him out and entice him to stay. Its not Snows fault that he tried. I have to give him credit for taking a chance. If Snow picked him up right before the trade deadline I would be upset but realize that you have to give to get. I dont care what team you are. Whatever we get for Vanek we get.

 

[Isles Junkie]

There's very little reason to be confident that Snow will make a good deal for the Isles here. In fact, I think it's far more likely that he isn't dealt at all then he does get dealt. It would just be par for the course with us.

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

If the Isles didnt lose Visnovsky and Nabakov for a long period of time they would be in the playoff picture. Snow had to overpay to get him in October as well. He got the chance to try him out and entice him to stay. Its not Snows fault that he tried. I have to give him credit for taking a chance. If Snow picked him up right before the trade deadline I would be upset but realize that you have to give to get. I dont care what team you are. Whatever we get for Vanek we get.

"not Snows fault that he tried"
"give him credit for taking a chance"

Are we in grade school, should we get Garth some milk and cookies?

 

[Wedregast]

Common sense.

1. Team completely out of the race.
2. Snow has zero interest in bringing back Moulson.
3. Snow already dealt Moulson clearly showing a willingness to move him.
4. Moulson's trade value is high, why would Snow not want a 1st for a player he doesn't even want? Snow might be a bad GM but he isn't brain dead.

Logic says you're wrong, dead wrong.

Logic has no place in this, Snow's GM History shows you are wrong.

 

[Riseonfire]

Of coarse not. We paid for most of a season of Vanek. Other teams are paying for around 30 games of Vanek.

That said, we also got exclusive negotiating rights to Vanek and the 8th year and what playing next to a superstar can look like.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I don't know the answer to the original question here but I do know one thing. If Snow somehow manages to trade Vanek AND sign him on July 1st, the "Garth Snow for GM of the YEAR" thread will rear its ugly head again...

 

[Yashin for President]

"not Snows fault that he tried"
"give him credit for taking a chance"

Are we in grade school, should we get Garth some milk and cookies?

As much as people dont like Garth he is at a severe disadvantage compared to other GM's. I would say he has one of the worst situations in the NHL. He cant spend money and cannot trade prospects because he might look bad after doing it. Its a lose lose no matter what the poor guy does. Its not his fault that Vanek wants to be in Minnesota! How is that his fault?

 

[CaptDenisPotvin]

I would have to think "Yes" Snow will get more. The reason is because I see Vanek vs Moulson as a wash....I think Vanek will be worth more than a 1st and a 2nd round pick. Now on the Vanek-Moulson wash....I DO NOT THINK Moulson and Vanek are the same talent-wise (Vanek is the better player) but I do see similar production and the same contract situation. I don't think we were ever re-signing Moulson..... I don't know, it makes sense to me anyway. Plus I could see us getting a possible 25-30 goal prospect and a 1st for Vanek

 

[danteipp]

This is going to be very interesting. If he Isles get back at least one blue chip prospect, preferably a top-four defenseman but a second-line forward would also fit right in, I will be happy. Especially if they put off giving up the first round pick until 2015 (I don't really care about the second rounder) and select in the top-10 in 2014. I know the 2015 draft projects to be deeper, but picks a year-plus off are generally worth less since a team's dynamics can change considerably. Even in a weaker draft, give me the 4-7 pick instead of something in the mid teens. And, like others have said, if the Isles somehow managed to sign Vanek in free agency, based off his time spent here and the discussions they have already held during the exclusive negotiations, I will be ecstatic.