Does Garth get back more value at the deadline for Vanek than he gave up?

[disles1]

A) Yes.

B) No

Keep in mind he has to get back at least a 1st and 2nd rd pick to get back more. Moulson should not be included because Garth never had intentions of keeping MM. He would NOT have traded Moulson at the deadline either as evidenced by his past behavior....so don't include him or his "opportunity cost"
See the others who left the Isles at the deadline for free.....

Jason Blake
Miro Satan
Parenteau
Boyes


So, does he get a good return like I've been saying ( 3 pieces) or is he lucky to even get a 2nd rounder like others are saying because GM's have Garth over a barrel knowing Vanek will walk if acquired???

Click to read more...

 

[Darth Milbury]

I think he'll get the return he wants.

But, that return will not equal what he gave up.

 

[TheZec]

Even tough playing with Tavares could have boosted a little Vanek's value, having him for 20 games will not return us a (1 dimensional) 30 goal scorer, a 1st and a 2nd.

Best case scenario is if we get a (very) good prospect in return IMHO.

 

[Paulinho]

They had no intentions of signing Moulson and we would had been completely out of the race. How on earth would he not have been dealt? He was dealt for christ sake and so will Vanek. How can we not include Moulson, that is ridiculous.

I for one will include moulson, who would had likely brought back another 1st.

Vote No, please let me wrong.

 

[SI90]

he will get a 1st and prospect imo about equal with a lower spot in the first round...

Mouslon and Vanek are both UFA's


so we gave up a 1st and 2nd and if we get back a lower first and a prospect we like

then that was worth the 3 months of Vanek and watching him along with JT and Okposo rock...


No harm no foul....just my 2 cents

 

[ThatGuy22]

He likely gets a 1st and a 2nd(or some equivalency in prospects).

But you can't simply take out Moulson because of an assumed thought he wouldn't have traded him. Moulson was an asset for the Islanders, regardless of if he was signed as a UFA, and he was a part of the package to acquire Vanek.

So no, the Islanders probably won't get back that value.

 

[Baeron]

I concur that we should include Moulson in the equation. But so should we include the fact that we had the better player for three months and the chance to convince TV to stay. Those two factors are simply not measurable in any way, so the full picture will always be blurry.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

I disagree with not including Moulson.

And you need to add an undecided option to the poll.

 

[disles1]

He likely gets a 1st and a 2nd(or some equivalency in prospects).

But you can't simply take out Moulson because of an assumed thought he wouldn't have traded him. Moulson was an asset for the Islanders, regardless of if he was signed as a UFA, and he was a part of the package to acquire Vanek.

So no, the Islanders probably won't get back that value.

Garth's past behavior is why I didn't include MM. If you thought he was going to trade him why didn't he trade 40 goal scorer Blake at the deadline??? Or Satan? Or PA?

He likes to let the team finish out the season & his UFA's walk. It's just a fact. Stating you think he would have traded MM goes against what he has done over his whole career here....

 

[Baeron]

Garth's past behavior is why I didn't include MM. If you thought he was going to trade him why didn't he trade 40 goal scorer Blake at the deadline??? Or Satan? Or PA?

He likes to let the team finish out the season & his UFA's walk. It's just a fact. Stating you think he would have traded MM goes against what he has done over his whole career here....

Well in that case the anwer is still "no", as TV would not get traded either.

 

[Macch]

No he won't and people really need to get over it.

 

[disles1]

Well in that case the anwer is still "no", as TV would not get traded either.

HA! True. I change my vote.....

 

[ThatGuy22]

Garth's past behavior is why I didn't include MM. If you thought he was going to trade him why didn't he trade 40 goal scorer Blake at the deadline??? Or Satan? Or PA?

He likes to let the team finish out the season & his UFA's walk. It's just a fact. Stating you think he would have traded MM goes against what he has done over his whole career here....

It doesn't matter if he would have traded Moulson at the deadline is the point.

Moulson was an asset of the Islanders. Moulson got traded for Vanek. His value has to be included in any comparison of what Vanek gets back.

The only reason to not include him is to make yourself feel better about the return.

 

[xECK29x]

No, that's how a deal for a UFA works, you will never recoup the original deal, unless you sign the UFA you traded for and he has an impact.

 

[disles1]

It doesn't matter if he would have traded Moulson at the deadline is the point.

Moulson was an asset of the Islanders. Moulson got traded for Vanek. His value has to be included in any comparison of what Vanek gets back.

The only reason to not include him is to make yourself feel better about the return.

I think Garth gets 3 pieces back. A top prospect, A 1st and a 2nd.

To me the top prospect is better than MM ,who wouldn't be on the team next yr. We'll see.

 

[MDIsles]

Based on Snowy's track record over 8 years... Simple answer Nope.

 

[ThatGuy22]

I think Garth gets 3 pieces back. A top prospect, A 1st and a 2nd.

To me the top prospect is better than MM ,who wouldn't be on the team next yr. We'll see.

Thats a valid opinion. A top prospect for a 50 game upgrade at wing.

What the value is for the 50 game upgrade + subsequent trade can be debated. I don't think whether or not to include Moulson can be.

As far as what i think the Isles get back. I would bet on a 1st and B level prospect. I don't think the market is going to be there to get much more.

 

[PROMputt]

The trade was not made to get more then what you gave. There is a value the Islanders have received in the 42(plus?) games Vanek has played for the Islanders as Snow thought he would propel them to the playoffs. Just as any team trading for him will receive a value to help their push towards a Cup. Let's say the Islanders would have done better with Vanek and made the playoffs and won a round or two. And then Vanek leaves via free agency at the end to the season. Was the Value greater then it is now- yes. Just like any team acquiring him is hoping to do better in the playoffs. A trade has many risks to it, and some work out better then others.

 

[leeroggy]

One thing that will change the formula and the return is if Wang goes outside the box and retains salary. It might even have been part of the planning Snow did with Wang before making the trade. What do they have to lose besides money if they make Vanek only a $1,000,000 cap hit to the acquiring team?

At a $1,000,000 cap hit that opens far more options to teams to trade for him. Wouldn't we write a $1,000,000 check if that earns us an extra top prospect?

For example, does Pittsburgh pony up Despres if they know Vanek is affordable?

Taking on salary, while not Wang's normal modus operandi, would allow us to more fully monetize the asset, Vanek.

From Capgeek: (this is the amount of cap space that these teams have projected at the trade deadline) - http://capgeek.com/

1. Washington » $199,469
2. Vancouver » $411,566
3. Chicago » $495,822
4. Pittsburgh » $1,110,000
5. San Jose » $1,397,500
6. Boston » $1,595,000
7. Detroit » $1,645,167
8. Toronto » $1,645,833

Just an example of who can get involved if we retained enough salary so that Vanek's cap hit is $1,000,000 at the deadline.

In Washington's case we would need to take back a net of $800,000 in salary

Vancouver - $600,000

And so on.

This opens up a lot of options! Garth Snow, for all his perceived faults on this Board, did manage to get an MBA and does understand this.

This is why trading Vanek and A-Mac as a package is also valuable if we retain Vanek's salary. The acquiring team can get a 2-1 and we can get a better package. Trading them separately DOES NOTHING for A-Mac's value to an acquirer but trading them together LIFTS A-Mac's value since he is now paired with a MORE ATTRACTIVE ASSET.

Surprise me Charles! Step up with a LITTLE MONEY and you can take a big step forward for next year. If Vanek is worth $7.1 million to you as a signed player he certainly is worth $1 million to you if you get AN EXTRA NHL READY PLAYER in a deal.

 

[SI90]

so basically we lose a possible first that we could have got for Moulson....

 

[blitzkriegs]

We'll see. Think it will be a two stager: Isles get some help now, but also obtain an asset that will be flipped at draft for another player.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Anybody who reads the Snow Must Go! Thread might be suprised by my answer...

I'm voting yes, he is the best foward at the deadline.

I think it depends on how much you value the picks in my opinion.

IF Snow can bring Martin Jones and a 2015 first will anybody be furious? Toffoli would be great too. We really have to wait and see. I don't think even Garth can screw this up. At this point give me a top prospect+ for TV.

 

[blinkman360]

I don't think he'll get equal value, but he could get something 'more' valuable to us... if that makes sense.

Like for example, if he ends up getting back Gibson/Andersen and a 2nd/3rd for Vanek.

Obviously, a 1st(potentially a high 1st), a 2nd and Moulson(another 1st?) is greater value than Gibson/Andersen and a 2nd/3rd, but the 2nd package is arguably of more importance to us.

This is what I'm hoping for. Seeing if Garth can somehow swing a deal that gets us our goaltender of the future, or the present AND future. If that happens, I really won't care if it's considered 'less' than what we originally gave up.

 

[stranger34]

A) Yes.

B) No

Keep in mind he has to get back at least a 1st and 2nd rd pick to get back more. Moulson should not be included because Garth never had intentions of keeping MM. He would NOT have traded Moulson at the deadline either as evidenced by his past behavior....so don't include him or his "opportunity cost"
See the others who left the Isles at the deadline for free.....

Jason Blake
Miro Satan
Parenteau
Boyes


So, does he get a good return like I've been saying ( 3 pieces) or is he lucky to even get a 2nd rounder like others are saying because GM's have Garth over a barrel knowing Vanek will walk if acquired???

way to rig a question. If you don't count Moulson's opportunity cost then yeah... maybe. but's a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the situation.

I think he will get a 1st from a good team which is worse than the Islanders pick. A 2nd, and maybe another piece.

My prediction is he will fall well short of the original Moulson + picks haul but will probably meet or exceed the 1st and 2nd.

 

[leeroggy]

Some other numbers to consider:

Capgeek has Vanek's cap hit this year at $5,750,000 versus his higher salary

There are 25 games left right now

25 / 82 = 30.5% of cap hit left as of today = $1,753,750 left.

Putting up $1,000,000 in retained makes Vanek AND A-Mac TOGETHER under $1,000,000 of cap hit.

Who can't afford that?