Does Dubas deserve the blame for trading their 1st round pick to get rid of Marleau?

[Leaf Fans]

The blame? He should take credit for doing so. Lou gets the blame.

 

[Mess]

I think based on how poorly this team is playing, and as it continues to struggle and decline in the standings annually under Dubas direction, that there are bigger things to blame Dubas over then Marleau and this regrettable trade of our 1st, as neither are factoring into the equation of what is happening as a result of it.

Dubas felt the need in to make this trade of mortgaging the future, with the intent he needed the cap space and the roster spot to make the Leafs better and more competitive. Marleau' cap hit and contribution seen as something that would hurt the Leafs chances for success in the present. That is how you would have to justify the reason for making it.

People are focusing on WHAT Dubas did, but missing the big picture of WHY he felt the need to do it, and HOW it has impacted both the present and the future.

Going to be tough to point the finger of blame at Lou Lam, that Dubas had to do this to save the Leafs season, only to miss the playoffs. What purpose would this trade make then?

 

[Leafsguard]

I agree, Marleau was pretty bad in the end. If he were on the team this year, he probably would be on the 4th line. But if it means keeping our 1st, I'm okay with Marleau taking away ice time from, say, Timashov.

How exactly do you keep Marleau with his cap hit? It cost a 1st to get out from under that cap hit and RobidasIsland wouldn't have worked for Patty

 

[Big Muddy]

What exactly could they have done, say Marleau was "injured" and put him on LTIR? That would be hard to do since he's played 82 games each year since 2010. Even if they wanted to try that I think the league would fine them and take away draft picks, because he wasn't playing hurt with a known injury like other players who are on LTIR despite never going to play again.

Not gotten into the situation in the first place.

The cap has existed since the first CBA was introduced in 2004. The GMs (plural, both Lou & Dubas) job is to manage the cap. They had to know that resigning the big three would take a big chunk of the cap. And, in combination with a big ticket free agency signing, we'd hope they had some idea about where all of this would put us cap wise. If you're hoping it will all work out and don't have a realistic budget, that's not great cap management.

I'm going to guess that folks in here underestimated how much it would take to sign the big three. Let's hope management had more accurate numbers.

They very well might have calculated all this, but decided it that the worst case would be that they had to move a 1st to get rid of Marleau. We don't know. Hopefully they had a plan, made accurate calculations and were prepared for the consequences of that plan. Not knowing or underestimating the cap implications is the more worrisome thought.

It wouldn't be too bad if it was just one 1st that we had lost versus the two 1sts, two 2nds and two 3rds that we have lost over the span of the last few years. We can pretend that won't have (medium/long term) consequences, but trying to defy the odds is another questionable strategy. Chances are far greater that it come back to bite us in the butt (eventually) than not.

 

[93gilmour93]

Dubas did what he had to do because of the mess Lou left him with the 3rd year of the Marleau contract. Imagine the leafs didn't trade Marleau and lost Marner because of it. I'm sure people would be reacting differently

 

[Shanwhatplan]

I think based on how poorly this team is playing, and as it continues to struggle and decline in the standings annually under Dubas direction, that there are bigger things to blame Dubas over then Marleau and this regrettable trade of our 1st, as neither are factoring into the equation of what is happening as a result of it.

Dubas felt the need in to make this trade of mortgaging the future, with the intent he needed the cap space and the roster spot to make the Leafs better and more competitive. Marleau' cap hit and contribution seen as something that would hurt the Leafs chances for success in the present. That is how you would have to justify the reason for making it.

People are focusing on WHAT Dubas did, but missing the big picture of WHY he felt the need to do it, and HOW it has impacted both the present and the future.

Going to be tough to point the finger of blame at Lou Lam, that Dubas had to do this to save the Leafs season, only to miss the playoffs. What purpose would this trade make then?

Sorry, Mess, I appreciate what you’re saying, and I would agree with you 100%, but first I would like to hear his explanation of how in God’s name he thought he could sign the “gifted other 3”, and have a competitive team. Everyone, and I mean everyone, knew our defence needed help, and not just a depth defenceman (sorry Martin Marincin)! And I definitely don’t buy the excuse “Oh, if Rielly hadn’t gotten hurt we would have been fine” crap!
If Dubas would just explain his reasoning, and I know this will never happen, I might be a little more understanding, although I highly doubt it.
Even if Mikayev (sp?) and Johnsson had been healthy, it wouldn’t have mattered much. This team’s attention to detail, even from its leaders, is practically non-existent.
I think we need to face facts, we are no better than the other middling teams, and we have NO financial flexibility!
This is all on Dubas AND Shanahan!

 

[airbus220]

Imagine the leafs didn't trade Marleau and lost Marner because of it. I'm sure people would be reacting differently

Trading one of Marner, Matthews, Nylander (MMN) is not losing, we would nave been rewarded with picks and maybe a D.
Also why should MMN be the end of the rebuild, the 3 were cheap with entry level contracts and already provided some benefit. Why not trade all 3 if they don't sign team friendly contracts and use them for another entry-level cycle. Another cycle would have made even more sense if we had D first because D take longer to develop. We got JT for free, his 11M cap doesn't matter if we trade MMN.
What do we have now, stucked in cap without D. Was this the PLAN ?
Now the 1st to get rid of Marleau is LOST and still no D help.

But there's always a second chance, MMN can still be traded !!!
Do we have another chance ???
The old plan didn't work. JT put the old plan off the rails. Half of the cap for 4 forwards.
In a cap world overpaid players are bad, get rid of them.

 

[ACC1224]

Dubas did what he had to do because of the mess Lou left him with the 3rd year of the Marleau contract. Imagine the leafs didn't trade Marleau and lost Marner because of it. I'm sure people would be reacting differently

Well yeah, that would have been worse then throwing away a first.
Most would prefer neither of those options though.

 

[Stephen]

Well yeah, that would have been worse then throwing away a first.
Most would prefer neither of those options though.

We probably didn't need Johnsson and Kerfoot making nearly $7 million either.

 

[selltrade]

so to say Dubas made a bad move on Marleau.... Bruins retained 25% of Backes, gave up a 1st and Andersson who was a 2nd rounder in 2018, for Kase who has 7 goals


Bruins add Kase from Ducks for Backes, more
The Boston Bruins have acquired forward Ondrej Kase from the Anaheim Ducks in exchange for David Backes, a first-round pick and defensive prospect Axel Andersson. According to TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun, the Bruins retained 25 per cent of Backes' $6 million cap hit through next season in the deal.

TSN.ca Staff

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The Boston Bruins have acquired forward Ondrej Kase from the Anaheim Ducks in exchange for David Backes, a 2020 first-round pick and defensive prospect Axel Andersson.
The Bruins retained 25 per cent of Backes' $6 million cap hit through next season in the deal, meaning he will count for $1.5 million against their cap for this season and next.

 

[airbus220]

so to say Dubas made a bad move on Marleau.... Bruins

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Who cares what other teams are doing.

You should not trade a 1st rd pick when you don't get talent back.
What is it good for to have half the cap spend on 4 forwards. It's a bad design.
If Dubas is good in the draft the loss of the 1st hurts even more.
I would rather have the 1st than JT for 11M.

 

[ITM]

I think based on how poorly this team is playing, and as it continues to struggle and decline in the standings annually under Dubas direction, that there are bigger things to blame Dubas over then Marleau and this regrettable trade of our 1st, as neither are factoring into the equation of what is happening as a result of it.

Dubas felt the need in to make this trade of mortgaging the future, with the intent he needed the cap space and the roster spot to make the Leafs better and more competitive. Marleau' cap hit and contribution seen as something that would hurt the Leafs chances for success in the present. That is how you would have to justify the reason for making it.

People are focusing on WHAT Dubas did, but missing the big picture of WHY he felt the need to do it, and HOW it has impacted both the present and the future.

Going to be tough to point the finger of blame at Lou Lam, that Dubas had to do this to save the Leafs season, only to miss the playoffs. What purpose would this trade make then?

That WHY posit is a heck of a premise to try to infer any reasonable conclusion from.

And how could WHAT Lou did be divided from WHAT Dubas did? If right focus is your common denominator, WHY did (Teflon?) Lou do any number of things that Dubas was saddled into undoing or rather, delimiting the effect of?

As for the rest of blame being thrown around, do I detect that you have knowledge of known alternatives that Dubas had to choose from?

I’d find that a very interesting read.

 

[Legion34]

so to say Dubas made a bad move on Marleau.... Bruins retained 25% of Backes, gave up a 1st and Andersson who was a 2nd rounder in 2018, for Kase who has 7 goals


Bruins add Kase from Ducks for Backes, more
The Boston Bruins have acquired forward Ondrej Kase from the Anaheim Ducks in exchange for David Backes, a first-round pick and defensive prospect Axel Andersson. According to TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun, the Bruins retained 25 per cent of Backes' $6 million cap hit through next season in the deal.

TSN.ca Staff

• [TBODY] [/TBODY]

  [TBODY] [/TBODY]

  [TBODY] [/TBODY]

  [TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Boston Bruins have acquired forward Ondrej Kase from the Anaheim Ducks in exchange for David Backes, a 2020 first-round pick and defensive prospect Axel Andersson.
The Bruins retained 25 per cent of Backes' $6 million cap hit through next season in the deal, meaning he will count for $1.5 million against their cap for this season and next.

???? case is a hit from disaster. The bruins had a guy who could be bought out for less AND retained. And added a 2nd

this makes dubas look good.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

so to say Dubas made a bad move on Marleau.... Bruins retained 25% of Backes, gave up a 1st and Andersson who was a 2nd rounder in 2018, for Kase who has 7 goals


Bruins add Kase from Ducks for Backes, more
The Boston Bruins have acquired forward Ondrej Kase from the Anaheim Ducks in exchange for David Backes, a first-round pick and defensive prospect Axel Andersson. According to TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun, the Bruins retained 25 per cent of Backes' $6 million cap hit through next season in the deal.

TSN.ca Staff

• [TBODY] [/TBODY]

  [TBODY] [/TBODY]

  [TBODY] [/TBODY]

  [TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Boston Bruins have acquired forward Ondrej Kase from the Anaheim Ducks in exchange for David Backes, a 2020 first-round pick and defensive prospect Axel Andersson.
The Bruins retained 25 per cent of Backes' $6 million cap hit through next season in the deal, meaning he will count for $1.5 million against their cap for this season and next.

The Boston 1st is guaranteed to be a late pick with them being 1st in the NHL heading into the deadline.

Mikheyev and Johnsson each only have 8 goals this year just to give some perspective.

True that Kase only has 7 goals this season but he's also playing on 1 of the lowest scoring teams. However, he's also got a good cap hit at 2.3 for next year and then is an RFA and also has potential to do a lot better. Based on Kase's previous two seasons him being a 20-25 goalscorer is very realistic.

Dubas gave up a lot trading our 1st to unload Marleau. He traded him on June 22nd before teams had figured out their own cap situations in fear of an offersheet to Marner. If he had of waited of waited more teams would have been able to take on the Marleau deal as they would have known their own cap situations. Dubas fearing the offersheet also looks awful because he just turned around and gives Marner offersheet type money anyways (far more than comparable likes Ratannen or Aho).

 

[Gallagbi]

The Boston 1st is guaranteed to be a late pick with them being 1st in the NHL heading into the deadline.

Mikheyev and Johnsson each only have 8 goals this year just to give some perspective.

True that Kase only has 7 goals this season but he's also playing on 1 of the lowest scoring teams. However, he's also got a good cap hit at 2.3 for next year and then is an RFA and also has potential to do a lot better. Based on Kase's previous two seasons him being a 20-25 goalscorer is very realistic.

Dubas gave up a lot trading our 1st to unload Marleau. He traded him on June 22nd before teams had figured out their own cap situations in fear of an offersheet to Marner. If he had of waited of waited more teams would have been able to take on the Marleau deal as they would have known their own cap situations. Dubas fearing the offersheet also looks awful because he just turned around and gives Marner offersheet type money anyways (far more than comparable likes Ratannen or Aho).

Pretty sure the timing was buyout related. If they waited that window closes and Marleau doesn't move with his NMC.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Dubas gave up a lot trading our 1st to unload Marleau. He traded him on June 22nd before teams had figured out their own cap situations in fear of an offersheet to Marner. If he had of waited of waited more teams would have been able to take on the Marleau deal as they would have known their own cap situations. Dubas fearing the offersheet also looks awful because he just turned around and gives Marner offersheet type money anyways (far more than comparable likes Ratannen or Aho).

Dubas traded Marleau when he did because he was able to re-sign Kapanen and Johnsson after that, because that's when the reports came out they were about to be re-signed and it was before July 1st.

 

[Polaris1010]

Marleau got traded today to a contender.

The humiliation of general manager Dubas continues.

The humiliation of MLSE continues.

LOL!

Don't blame the fans! Blame management!

 

[Cotton]

People can rightfully blame Lou for the Marleau contract, but Dubas was the one overpaying people, which limited our cap space, which made trading our 1st necessary to move Marleau.

So yeah, it's on him obviously.

 

[Tairy Greene]

People can rightfully blame Lou for the Marleau contract, but Dubas was the one overpaying people, which limited our cap space, which made trading our 1st necessary to move Marleau.

So yeah, it's on him obviously.

Marleau was overpaid more than our top 4 combined

 

[Cotton]

Marleau was overpaid more than our top 4 combined

Not really, but you can feel free to believe so.

 

[Tairy Greene]

Not really, but you can feel free to believe so.

Prove me wrong

 

[Cotton]

Prove me wrong

Your flaws aren't my concern. Its obvious enough, but if you need to you could always look at league comparable and crunch the numbers yourself.

 

[Tairy Greene]

Your flaws aren't my concern. Its obvious enough, but if you need to you could always look at league comparable and crunch the numbers yourself.

Comparables like Marleau making as much as MacKinnon?

 

[Gallagbi]

Comparables like Marleau making as much as MacKinnon?

Careful, you wouldn't want to compare Mack to Marner or Matthews deal.

 

[Anthrax442]

No, You blame Lou