Does anyone have faith...

[Diatomic]

Stralman
Reimer
Stalberg
Komarov
Frattin

However, we need a new scouting team ASAP and we need to stop trading picks and youth.

Thats terrible...

Stralman - Decent bottom pairing D
Reimer - Decent backup
Stalberg - Decent 3rd liner
Komarov - Good 4th liner
Frattin - Healthy scratch

 

[Morbo]

If they change the scouts and stop trading their first rounders all the time, yes.

 

[indigobuffalo]

I know people are still fomenting about the lost season, so this type of optimism will feel like scalding idiocy, but how awesome would it be for the Leafs to win the draft lottery this offseason and draft Ekblad or Sam Bennett...

 

[indigobuffalo]

Thats terrible...

Stralman - Decent bottom pairing D
Reimer - Decent backup
Stalberg - Decent 3rd liner
Komarov - Good 4th liner
Frattin - Healthy scratch

Reimer has clearly shown he is a terrible backup, as he cannot be mentally prepared for a game unless he is the starter and can get a bunch of games running together.

IMO he's a mid-range starter. Maybe 15th-24th in the league. Good enough to deserve a spot as a starter on some teams but not so good that there aren't options avaiable for most teams.

 

[rrc1967]

...that the Leafs can draft their way out of this mess?

The team has to be dismantled and even if they manage to garner some more draft picks, can this crew actually be successful at the draft table? I haven't seen much to say otherwise.

they would need draft picks to do that

 

[Faltorvo]

I have faith when they have picks in say the top 7, after that, well, given the track record, it's turns to jaundice eyed hope.

When I see actual proof that they can find gems/steals then I will rethink it.

 

[thewave]

I have faith in chocolate pudding, very consistent over the years and has never really let me down although the portion seem smaller for what I pay for, I still know I am going to get the same tasting chocolate pudding I use to.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Hopefully we drop our last few games and others jump us.

Could possibly slip into the top 10 heres hoping..

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Dave Nonis needs to stop being a serial killer of 2nd round picks as well.

 

[Purity*]

Stralman
Reimer
Stalberg
Komarov
Frattin

However, we need a new scouting team ASAP and we need to stop trading picks and youth.

How does Bozak NOT make your list? He is by far the best one.

 

[Morbo]

How does Bozak NOT make your list? He is by far the best one.

Probably because he was a free agent.

 

[The Apologist]

Hawks (Saad, Shaw, Kruger (Bolland replacements), Bolland as well, back when), Ducks (Rakell, Gibson, Vatanan) Sharks (Pavelski, Vlasic, Demers), Kings (Toffoli, Pearson, Voynov, King, Martinez)

even if you don't draft stars or scorers in the 2nd-7th rounds, you can find guys that can play a 3rd or 4th line role so you don't have to pay a guy like Clarkson $35m to attempt to do that. (worth nothing that the Leafs seem willing to draft these guys in the first round).

if you have faith in your ability to draft and develop good role players, you can afford to trade your role player types when you think their cost will outmeasure their production. if you are a good team, a bad team like the Leafs might see these role players as being worth more than they actually are. i would argue that this is why you see these players "struggle to find success outside their draft team." they play their role on a good team, and some team like the Leafs that thinks they need to acquire players with a winning pedigree are willing to trade picks for them, or overspend to sign them as UFAs. the Hawks - it makes sense to use the Hawks because Burke did this with Versteeg and Nonis with Bolland - get picks that allow them to try to replace the production they lost at a better price.

sure there is luck involved. you can increase your luck by not trading away bunches of your picks. by adding picks for guys you don't want to pay anyway.

Lets use Chicago then, since they keep trading away their developed prospects and bringing in new ones. Perfect example actually. How many of those players completely **** the bed as soon a they're traded?

 

[The Apologist]

Probably because he was a free agent.

Was still a prospect. Not like he was well developed and 30 when he got here

 

[leafs in five]

Lets use Chicago then, since they keep trading away their developed prospects and bringing in new ones. Perfect example actually. How many of those players completely **** the bed as soon a they're traded?

did you read what i wrote?

 

[seanlinden]

Not with Nonis and Morrison at the helm

This.

If the Leafs had a high quality scouting staff, the play would to to trade down a couple of times with our #1 pick to get a bunch of 2nd rounders, and go a long way to restocking our system.

 

[LeaFanNvan]

Drafted Kaberle late in the draft

 

[PugFugly]

did you read what i wrote?

The post you originally replied to referenced teams drafting successfully in rounds 4-7.

Saad, Bolland, Rakell, Gibson, Vlasic, Toffoli, Pearson and Voynov were not picked in that range. From that list, all but Toffoli were top 40 picks and Rakell and Pearson were 1st rounders.

 

[Morbo]

Was still a prospect. Not like he was well developed and 30 when he got here

this thread is about drafting.

 

[PugFugly]

Stralman
Reimer
Stalberg
Komarov
Frattin

However, we need a new scouting team ASAP and we need to stop trading picks and youth.

Though not exactly the sexiest list, all of Ian White, John Mitchell, Jay Harrison, Kyle Wellwood, Adam Mair and Alexei Ponikarovsky had/are having decent NHL careers, albeit in bottom 6/3rd pairing roles.

 

[Morbo]

Though not exactly the sexiest list, all of Ian White, John Mitchell, Jay Harrison, Kyle Wellwood, Adam Mair and Alexei Ponikarovsky had/are having decent NHL careers, albeit in bottom 6/3rd pairing roles.

That's what our scouting staff produces, by and large. ok players. Jiri Tlusty, Nik Kulemin, Carlo Cola, White etc etc etc. it's just a big pile of meh. Then there's the use of first rounders on guys like Biggs or even Gauthier who projects as a 3rd liner at the highest level.

The quintessential Leaf draft pick is a guy like Matt Stajan. He's played over 700 games, which is pretty damn impressive on its own, which in turn reflects well on your scouting staff. you picked a guy who played 700+ NHL games, that's your job, right? problem is, he's really a pretty mediocre player who has cracked 40 points twice in his career and has never even had a 20 goal season.

where are the stars? where are the impact frontline talents?
There's Rask who we threw in the garbage, and possibly Rielly? That wouldn't be enough even before the salary cap system.

Where's our Karlsson at 15th overall, or PK Subban in the second round? Those guys are young Norris trophy winners and they skate on the bluelines of our biggest rivals. Nobody expects to get those kind of picks yearly but we're definitely not getting our share.

 

[pucci2001]

They can do everything:

Trade
Draft
Demote
Promote
Hire
Fire



If you actually think that teams knew what they were getting drafting in the 4th-7th round, think again.

Drafting outside of the 1st 2 rounds is a crap shoot for everyone.

Except Detroit apparently, with their European scouts just sniping out all stars.

 

[Faltorvo]

That's what our scouting staff produces, by and large. ok players. Jiri Tlusty, Nik Kulemin, Carlo Cola, White etc etc etc. it's just a big pile of meh. Then there's the use of first rounders on guys like Biggs or even Gauthier who projects as a 3rd liner at the highest level.

The quintessential Leaf draft pick is a guy like Matt Stajan. He's played over 700 games, which is pretty damn impressive on its own, which in turn reflects well on your scouting staff. you picked a guy who played 700+ NHL games, that's your job, right? problem is, he's really a pretty mediocre player who has cracked 40 points twice in his career and has never even had a 20 goal season.

where are the stars? where are the impact frontline talents?
There's Rask who we threw in the garbage, and possibly Rielly? That wouldn't be enough even before the salary cap system.

Where's our Karlsson at 15th overall, or PK Subban in the second round? Those guys are young Norris trophy winners and they skate on the bluelines of our biggest rivals. Nobody expects to get those kind of picks yearly but we're definitely not getting our share.

Gunner, that's damn fine for a 7th rounder

Rask was our once in a blue moon steal

Steen was our (every few years) heck of a pick.

 

[Wami]

Detroits European scouting is exceptional. Do you know there were only two teams who saw Edler? Vancouver and Detroit, both had him much higher than other teams because nobody went to his obscure European town to watch him play. That fact alone should show you that European scouting is not a constant, and is in fact dominated by a few teams - we are CLEARLY lacking in European scouting.

We have ONE, count it... ONE European drafted player on our team. It's pathetic. We can't deep-draft ANY european talent because we literally have nothing going for us over there.

 

[PugFugly]

That's what our scouting staff produces, by and large. ok players. Jiri Tlusty, Nik Kulemin, Carlo Cola, White etc etc etc. it's just a big pile of meh. Then there's the use of first rounders on guys like Biggs or even Gauthier who projects as a 3rd liner at the highest level.

The quintessential Leaf draft pick is a guy like Matt Stajan. He's played over 700 games, which is pretty damn impressive on its own, which in turn reflects well on your scouting staff. you picked a guy who played 700+ NHL games, that's your job, right? problem is, he's really a pretty mediocre player who has cracked 40 points twice in his career and has never even had a 20 goal season.

where are the stars? where are the impact frontline talents?
There's Rask who we threw in the garbage, and possibly Rielly? That wouldn't be enough even before the salary cap system.

Where's our Karlsson at 15th overall, or PK Subban in the second round? Those guys are young Norris trophy winners and they skate on the bluelines of our biggest rivals. Nobody expects to get those kind of picks yearly but we're definitely not getting our share.

I agree. I wasn't trying to defend our scouting staff, I just think this concept of good teams getting late round gems is overstated.

If anything, I think the list of players that leafs in five presented represents the value of 2nd round picks, which we so often trade away.

Good teams don't always draft stars in the 1st and 2nd round, but they find solid role players to surround the star players they do have.

The one thing I will say in defense about our scouting staff is that they haven't exactly had a ton of opportunities to prove their worth since we keep trading away 2nd round picks.

 

[PugFugly]

Gunner, that's damn fine for a 7th rounder

Rask was our once in a blue moon steal

Steen was our (every few years) heck of a pick.

Kadri and Schenn aren't so bad either.