Does anyone have faith...

MajorityRules*

Guest
...that the Leafs can draft their way out of this mess?

The team has to be dismantled and even if they manage to garner some more draft picks, can this crew actually be successful at the draft table? I haven't seen much to say otherwise.
 

ForSpareParts*

Guest
They can do everything:

Trade
Draft
Demote
Promote
Hire
Fire



If you actually think that teams knew what they were getting drafting in the 4th-7th round, think again.

Drafting outside of the 1st 2 rounds is a crap shoot for everyone.
 

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
12,839
3,668
Well they're already missing 2nd round picks for the next two drafts. Generally teams that hit home-run draft picks in the 2nd round do so because they have extra picks, and therefore their odds improve.
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
14,792
3,728
...that the Leafs can draft their way out of this mess?

The team has to be dismantled and even if they manage to garner some more draft picks, can this crew actually be successful at the draft table? I haven't seen much to say otherwise.

They have tried everything else so why not give it a shot?

No I have no faith in these bozos. But maybe they will get lucky!
 

Al14

Registered User
Jul 13, 2007
24,220
5,594
I think Leiweke needs to clean house!

We need a new GM with some skill at making great trades. The new GM also needs to have a good ability to judge hockey talent and sign the right mix of players to appropriate contracts. NO MORE RETIREMENT deals with sky high salaries, AND NO MOVEMENT clauses.

The scouting department NEEDS to be much better. We're not getting full value from our drafting. Spend, spend, spend, to get the best of the best, scouts available. We can't spend freely on players, so, we should spend big dollars to FIND the RIGHT players!

We need a new coaching staff that can work with youth and adapt to changing circumstances on the fly. The new head coach has to be a good evaluator of players and be able to groom and select his lineups appropriately for each and every game!

Big changes to this organization are NECESSARY, if we want to compete for a Stanley Cup anytime soon!
 
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Al14

Registered User
Jul 13, 2007
24,220
5,594
Not with Nonis and Morrison at the helm

I agree, we need to hire the best of the best to run this team. We sure the heck can't spend our vast amount of monetary resources on players, so, acquire and retain, the best GM, front office staff, and scouts available, using top dollars!
 

leafs in five

Registered User
Feb 4, 2007
4,956
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engelland
If you actually think that teams knew what they were getting drafting in the 4th-7th round, think again.

Drafting outside of the 1st 2 rounds is a crap shoot for everyone.

some teams are just lucky i guess. the same ones, consistently, are lucky.
 

pooleboy

Registered User
Dec 23, 2009
6,579
16
Ontario
nope.
we will stay at 10 or whereever our pick lands. We will draft a safe Center probably Mccann, then we will hear the " we still believe in this group we have a very young core blah blah blah" even tho our core of Phaneuf, Kessel are both off their ELC, they are recieving big ticket contracts for choke after choke after choke. no changes will be made, we wont move up to try and get our future #1 C, we wont move back to acquire more picks that we gave up for rentals (bolland). We will forever have a mediocure farm system, have a forever mediocure team unless we rebuild through the draft... but just look at the oilers building through the draft doesn't work! :sarcasm:
 

The Apologist

Apologizing for Leaf garbage since 1979
Oct 16, 2007
12,250
2,966
Leaf Nation Hell
some teams are just lucky i guess. the same ones, consistently, are lucky.

With the exception of Detroit, who else? And even then, how much is Detroits system and how much is the drafting?

I find it funny that so many o these players struggle to find success outside of their draft team.
 

kihei

McEnroe: The older I get, the better I used to be.
Jun 14, 2006
42,728
10,277
Toronto
Faith is too strong a word, but I like our young core a lot. I think this is the perfect time to change coaches. If management makes the right moves, I still think the future looks pretty bright. I want change, but I don't want this team to be blown up.
 

MajorityRules*

Guest
No faith left in anything leaf related, fans, media, management, players or otherwise. It's just one big ongoing joke.

That's about how I feel right now. It's like this is joke is never going to end.
 

Peasy

Registered User
May 25, 2012
16,954
14,654
Star Shoppin
...that the Leafs can draft their way out of this mess?

The team has to be dismantled and even if they manage to garner some more draft picks, can this crew actually be successful at the draft table? I haven't seen much to say otherwise.

LMAO. Give me a name of a player that the leafs drafted outside of the first 2 rounds that has amounted to something good. So far its only Gunnarsson, which is pathetic. So far it doesn't even seem like theyre good at drafting in the 20 range either.
 

leafs in five

Registered User
Feb 4, 2007
4,956
811
engelland
With the exception of Detroit, who else? And even then, how much is Detroits system and how much is the drafting?

I find it funny that so many o these players struggle to find success outside of their draft team.

Hawks (Saad, Shaw, Kruger (Bolland replacements), Bolland as well, back when), Ducks (Rakell, Gibson, Vatanan) Sharks (Pavelski, Vlasic, Demers), Kings (Toffoli, Pearson, Voynov, King, Martinez)

even if you don't draft stars or scorers in the 2nd-7th rounds, you can find guys that can play a 3rd or 4th line role so you don't have to pay a guy like Clarkson $35m to attempt to do that. (worth nothing that the Leafs seem willing to draft these guys in the first round).

if you have faith in your ability to draft and develop good role players, you can afford to trade your role player types when you think their cost will outmeasure their production. if you are a good team, a bad team like the Leafs might see these role players as being worth more than they actually are. i would argue that this is why you see these players "struggle to find success outside their draft team." they play their role on a good team, and some team like the Leafs that thinks they need to acquire players with a winning pedigree are willing to trade picks for them, or overspend to sign them as UFAs. the Hawks - it makes sense to use the Hawks because Burke did this with Versteeg and Nonis with Bolland - get picks that allow them to try to replace the production they lost at a better price.

sure there is luck involved. you can increase your luck by not trading away bunches of your picks. by adding picks for guys you don't want to pay anyway.
 

Hotlanta

Registered User
Dec 1, 2009
1,784
2
nope.
we will stay at 10 or whereever our pick lands. We will draft a safe Center probably Mccann, then we will hear the " we still believe in this group we have a very young core blah blah blah" even tho our core of Phaneuf, Kessel are both off their ELC, they are recieving big ticket contracts for choke after choke after choke. no changes will be made, we wont move up to try and get our future #1 C, we wont move back to acquire more picks that we gave up for rentals (bolland). We will forever have a mediocure farm system, have a forever mediocure team unless we rebuild through the draft... but just look at the oilers building through the draft doesn't work! :sarcasm:

McCann would not be a safe pick. Just because he already knows how to play an elite defensive game does not make him a safe pick. It just means he has a high hockey IQ. He is where he is in the this draft because the type of goals and points he gets offensively translate to the NHL, all the while, having the instincts to play good defense. Why do you think lots of players who can match the points of guys like Michael Dal Colle won't even go in the first round. No one around the 10 pick has much top line potential. And if they ever do make it to the top line, then they definitely went above expectations or hit another gear. Getzlaf, Perry, Giroux, do you think ANA and PHI knew they were getting a first line player?

It is also not fair to put all the blame on Kessel & Phaneuf. Hockey is a team sport, and management, all the way down to the 4th line grinders should be held accountable.

As for the OP, this team needs to stay away from large UFA signings and any blockbuster trades for the next couple years. If you can somehow drop contracts like Clarkson & Gleason great, but otherwise, try to not add more of them. Let all your UFAs walk unless they want to stay at a discount (i.e. McClement/Kulemin might want to stay). They can absolutely, draft & develop there way out of this mess, as long as they clean house in management and coaching. The Leafs farm system is full of talented future 3rd/4th liners, as well as a handful of prospects with a shot at a top 6 role. We also have an abundance of prospects who could one day be a #3-6D in Percy, Granberg, Knodel, MacWilliam, Nilsson, Loov & Finn.

All it will take is patience. This won't happen overnight. They will need 2-3 years before we even begin to reap the benefits of doing this. You can call is a rebuild, retool, being patient or building depth. It doesn't really matter. But this team won't be a contender in the next 5 years if we continue down the current path.
 

Hotlanta

Registered User
Dec 1, 2009
1,784
2
LMAO. Give me a name of a player that the leafs drafted outside of the first 2 rounds that has amounted to something good. So far its only Gunnarsson, which is pathetic. So far it doesn't even seem like theyre good at drafting in the 20 range either.

Stralman
Reimer
Stalberg
Komarov
Frattin

However, we need a new scouting team ASAP and we need to stop trading picks and youth.
 

Kirkpatrick

Registered User
Oct 6, 2011
692
0
Ottawa
I think Leiweke needs to clean house!

We need a new GM with some skill at making great trades. The new GM also needs to have a good ability to judge hockey talent and sign the right mix of players to appropriate contracts. NO MORE RETIREMENT deals with sky high salaries, AND NO MOVEMENT clauses.

So...Brian Burke? :sarcasm:
 

Peasy

Registered User
May 25, 2012
16,954
14,654
Star Shoppin
Stralman
Reimer
Stalberg
Komarov
Frattin

However, we need a new scouting team ASAP and we need to stop trading picks and youth.
You're telling me these guys are having good NHL careers?

Best one is reimer, rest have been garbage, and Komarov has played like 40 some NHL games...
 

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