Does anyone have faith...

[Faltorvo]

Kadri and Schenn aren't so bad either.

True Pug but in those slots , i consider that "just baseline competence"

LOL ,if I have to get all worked up that they might "blow" a top 7 slot, well

I'd say we are in a world of hurt.

 

[jayswagger]

I don't have any faith in the current regime to get strong draft picks.

Realistically, if they truly wanted to believe in long-term success with drafting, look at the model Detroit has implemented.

If I was a Detroit fan, I'd know that no matter where I end up - I was going to have an excellent chance at succeeding. Years and years of drafting properly means you have guys like Steve Yzerman teaching guys like Datsuk and Zetterberg, now teaching guys like Nyqvist, Tatar and Abdelkader.

In an ideal world, it should not matter where we end up - its why I disagree with Tank Nation. No matter where we land, we should have the staff who can identify the right players and can develop into the leaders of the future.

Spend the money, get the right scouting staff and start watching the rewards. Doesn't seem to me Toronto believes in it that much...only the illusion that they believe in that.

 

[PugFugly]

True Pug but in those slots , i consider that "just baseline competence"

LOL ,if I have to get all worked up that they might "blow" a top 7 slot, well

I'd say we are in a world of hurt.

Wouldn't have said it if he hadn't brought up Rielly.

Like I said in one of my last posts, it's hard to draft good players when you don't have picks in the top 2 rounds.

That's on management, not scouting.

 

[Morbo]

Gunner, that's damn fine for a 7th rounder

It is in the sense that a 7th round pick actually made it. But in the final analysis he's just an averagish top 4 D, nothing more.

Daniel Alfredsson and tomas kaberle are what I would consider "damn fine" really late round picks. not gunnarsson, who is just another ok player.

Rask was our once in a blue moon steal

ok. when was the previous blue moon?

Steen was our (every few years) heck of a pick.

Don't think anybody saw him suddenly scoring 30 goals at age 30. Good for him, and even though our division rivals seem to be able to draft players that good or better in the second round, he is certainly a heck of a 1st round pick when it comes to Leaf scouting.

In case that sounded too backhanded, I do like how Steen's turned himself from the very ordinary player he was in Toronto to a solid contributor on a great team. Good for him, late bloomers are kind of a cool thing in the NHL. I certainly never saw 60 points in 65 games coming, I'll be watching with interest next season.

 

[Ari91]

Not sure I'd say faith. Hope is probably a better word. Nothing is in my control so I can either be bitter and assume that nothing will ever work and ever go right or I can just hope that some good luck is on our side and if it isn't, I hope those at the top of ladder exercise good judgement to know when it's time to turn the page and give someone else a try to get something done here.

Being a great team doesn't guarantee you a Cup but it earns you a good opportunity to give it an honest go. Leafs need to get to that point and I'm willing to give anyone a try who has the same intentions for the team.

 

[leafs in five]

The post you originally replied to referenced teams drafting successfully in rounds 4-7.

Saad, Bolland, Rakell, Gibson, Vlasic, Toffoli, Pearson and Voynov were not picked in that range. From that list, all but Toffoli were top 40 picks and Rakell and Pearson were 1st rounders.

yeah fair enough, i definitely strayed from the original premise of UofG's post though i still disagree that rounds 4-7 are a lottery. though it seems the sentiment behind the original post and apologist's reply is that later round picks aren't of much value because you have to get lucky to hit on them. so why not trade them for NHL players?

i agree that there is luck involved like anything else but

- you need picks in order to get lucky on them

- if you look for a type of player/skill set and your focus you player development on that type of player it seems to increase your chances of getting lucky, as it were.

- having picks allows you to target players you want and get in a position to draft them. of course sometimes you'll be wrong on a player or whatever, but it seems like the Leafs always need to borrow against future drafts, or trade from previous drafts, in order to get a player they like.

which is why Rakell seems worth mentioning, because the Ducks traded back in the first round with the Leafs and got two prospects that are better than the one the Leafs took at 22. Saad was taken with a pick (Calgary's) that the Leafs traded to the Hawks so that Burke could make a pick in the top-60 in his first draft.

anyway. i wish the Leafs were managed better. and the draft seems like an area where the Leafs could put their financial advantage over every other team to use. and they don't.

 

[PugFugly]

yeah fair enough, i definitely strayed from the original premise of UofG's post though i still disagree that rounds 4-7 are a lottery. though it seems the sentiment behind the original post and apologist's reply is that later round picks aren't of much value because you have to get lucky to hit on them. so why not trade them for NHL players?

i agree that there is luck involved like anything else but

- you need picks in order to get lucky on them

- if you look for a type of player/skill set and your focus you player development on that type of player it seems to increase your chances of getting lucky, as it were.

- having picks allows you to target players you want and get in a position to draft them. of course sometimes you'll be wrong on a player or whatever, but it seems like the Leafs always need to borrow against future drafts, or trade from previous drafts, in order to get a player they like.

which is why Rakell seems worth mentioning, because the Ducks traded back in the first round with the Leafs and got two prospects that are better than the one the Leafs took at 22. Saad was taken with a pick (Calgary's) that the Leafs traded to the Hawks so that Burke could make a pick in the top-60 in his first draft.

anyway. i wish the Leafs were managed better. and the draft seems like an area where the Leafs could put their financial advantage over every other team to use. and they don't.

Not going to argue that the Leafs have done a poor job acquiring picks, just that the late rounds are a crap shoot league wide IMO.

The Bruins, Blues, Sharks, Ducks and Hawks have done a tremendous job surrounding their core group of talent with late 1sts and a volume of 2nd and 3rd round picks. Rather than tanking, I'd like to see the Leafs do the same moving forward.

Though still very unproven, Matt Finn, Josh Leivo and Stuart Percy show that our scouts are at least capable of drafting guys with decent NHL potential when given the chance.

 

[Faltorvo]

yeah fair enough, i definitely strayed from the original premise of UofG's post though i still disagree that rounds 4-7 are a lottery. though it seems the sentiment behind the original post and apologist's reply is that later round picks aren't of much value because you have to get lucky to hit on them. so why not trade them for NHL players?

i agree that there is luck involved like anything else but

- you need picks in order to get lucky on them

- if you look for a type of player/skill set and your focus you player development on that type of player it seems to increase your chances of getting lucky, as it were.

- having picks allows you to target players you want and get in a position to draft them. of course sometimes you'll be wrong on a player or whatever, but it seems like the Leafs always need to borrow against future drafts, or trade from previous drafts, in order to get a player they like.

which is why Rakell seems worth mentioning, because the Ducks traded back in the first round with the Leafs and got two prospects that are better than the one the Leafs took at 22. Saad was taken with a pick (Calgary's) that the Leafs traded to the Hawks so that Burke could make a pick in the top-60 in his first draft. anyway. i wish the Leafs were managed better. and the draft seems like an area where the Leafs could put their financial advantage over every other team to use. and they don't.

The bolded is not entirely accurate.

BB made that trade with Chi to get OUR 2nd back so he could threaten Boston with an offer sheet for Kessel.

Pick compensation for offer sheeting a RFA have to be your draft slots, not other slots from other teams that you own.