Do you trust Mike Gillis with a rebuild?

[Wisp]

Street Hawk, the assumption that all of Jensen, Horvat, and Shinkaruk are going to be top line players within the next four year block is a silly one. It's a ridiculously optimistic prediction to assume they'll even have the ability. It's also silly because there's lots of room on the second line. Kesler could be gone in a trade or in two seasons when his contract expires, opening up an entire line. Horvat could literally spend another season in Junior, one in the AHL & have room to step into the top six with two years remaining on an a very affordable entry level contract.

Yeah that's another thing: ELCs are cheap and long and happen to expire when contracts of our current top six players expire. There's no reason to worry about not having the money to pay them. if Horvat plays his last season in junior, his ELC expires when the Sedin's contracts are done and off the books. Jensen's ELC will expire when Kesler is off the books. Shinkaruk's ELC expires when Burrows contract expires. Should these three prospects be as wildly successful as you optimistically expect them to be, money will be there to pay them.

That said, yeah your reasons for wanting the Sedins gone aren't rational, and I suspect its simply because you don't like them and wish to be done with them. The only rational reason I can think that there presence is bad for a rebuild: If you really want to tank, it's going to be really hard to accumulate losses with the Sedins in the line up.

 

[RandV]

If Boston or LA wins again, Gillis will change his mind, and trade Henrik for Kyle Clifford.

Change his mind? When Gillis first came on board he tried to poach David Backes with an offer sheet, and when that failed put the same sort of pressure on Buffalo to make a trade for Steve Bernier. Who obviously didn't work out. While the Kassian/Hodgson trade was done in the wake of the Boston lost, you could say he's been looking for that kind of player since day 1.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I get the feeling Gillis is going to make some big changes this summer.

 

[CanaFan]

I get the feeling Gillis is going to make some big changes this summer.

How can he? Any "big changes" players all have NTC/NMC's. So unless the players specifically want out like Kesler is reported to any changes will be limited to non-core players (Hansen, Kassian) or UFAs. And I don't see Vancouver being a big destination for UFA's based on our tumultuous season and seeming instability between management and coaching these days. Personally I expect Gillis to "step down" as he seemed to indicate that he won't tolerate the Aquilini's meddling any further. Given that they seem to like having a hand in running this team and probably see themselves as entitled to do so, I expect this will come to a head over the summer with Gillis riding off into the sunset with whatever legacy the fans in this town want to attribute to him.

 

[Wisp]

I think it'd be a mistake to blow it up, but if you Keep Tortorella around and they'll all be willing to waive anywheres.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I'm thinking gillis is feeling the heat (as usual) and is gonna overreact.
Will try to make a big trade or land a FA.

 

[Wisp]

If Gillis was going to break, he would made a panic trade by now.

I can see him offering a big time UFA a two year, 10 million dollar contract, though. He has the cap space and I suppose the motivation to placate Kesler.

 

[CanaFan]

If Gillis was going to break, he would made a panic trade by now.

I can see him offering a big time UFA a two year, 10 million dollar contract, though. He has the cap space and I suppose the motivation to placate Kesler.

Do you mean $10M per year? Or total contract? The latter wouldn't get us anyone of note and the former just smacks of extreme ... desperation. What about the self-imposed Sedin cap that Gillis supposedly adheres to? How do you think all the home town discounters would feel to take cuts to their own salary just to watch Gillis throw a wack of mad money at someone? Can't see him doing either tbh.

 

[biturbo19]

Do you mean $10M per year? Or total contract? The latter wouldn't get us anyone of note and the former just smacks of extreme ... desperation. What about the self-imposed Sedin cap that Gillis supposedly adheres to? How do you think all the home town discounters would feel to take cuts to their own salary just to watch Gillis throw a wack of mad money at someone? Can't see him doing either tbh.

I don't think the Sedins are exactly on "hometown discount" deals as of next year when their new contracts kick in. So i'm not sure that would be a big issue.

However, the real issue is that i don't think there is a single UFA set to hit the market who is worth more than the Sedins $7M "cap". Aside from maybe Vanek, but he's pretty much booked in to Minnesota already anyway, or Montreal if things happened to go extremely well in the playoffs or something.

 

[SgtToody]

I get the feeling Gillis is going to make some big changes this summer.

Unfortunately the other GMs know this too... It's whether he can not be taken to the cleaners again that's the 100dollar question...

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Unfortunately the other GMs know this too... It's whether he can not be taken to the cleaners again that's the 100dollar question...

The only trade I think he has been taken to the cleaners is the Schneider trade, and he's not exactly in bad company for those who Lou Lamiorello has fleeced in the last 26 years.

 

[CanaFan]

I don't think the Sedins are exactly on "hometown discount" deals as of next year when their new contracts kick in. So i'm not sure that would be a big issue.

However, the real issue is that i don't think there is a single UFA set to hit the market who is worth more than the Sedins $7M "cap". Aside from maybe Vanek, but he's pretty much booked in to Minnesota already anyway, or Montreal if things happened to go extremely well in the playoffs or something.

Sedins are the cap, other players took the discount, most notably Kesler, Edler, and Hamhuis. Each gave up dollars presumably (we are told) to give the team a competitive cap structure. Not sure how much a guy like Kes would embrace a teammate making 2x as much as he is.

 

[CanaFan]

The only trade I think he has been taken to the cleaners is the Schneider trade, and he's not exactly in bad company for those who Lou Lamiorello has fleeced in the last 26 years.

Thing is how often has Gillis _had_ to make a deal in his tenure here? Other than trading one of our two goalies and the Hodgson deal, none really. Gillis is a master at 'tinkering' with a line up which sums up most of his trades. There have been few 'blockbuster' deals to evaluate Gillis on, the Schneider and Hodgson deals are probably the closest. Ironically I actually feel he did well in both trades but I seem to be in the minority there.

 

[Wisp]

Do you mean $10M per year? Or total contract? The latter wouldn't get us anyone of note and the former just smacks of extreme ... desperation. What about the self-imposed Sedin cap that Gillis supposedly adheres to? How do you think all the home town discounters would feel to take cuts to their own salary just to watch Gillis throw a wack of mad money at someone? Can't see him doing either tbh.

Per a year, Sundin style.

Sedins are signed until they're 38. I think the hometown discount guys probably care more about getting another chance to win before it shrinks anymore than it has.

 

[ItsAllPartOfThePlan]

Unfortunately the other GMs know this too... It's whether he can not be taken to the cleaners again that's the 100dollar question...

Depends on how some teams do in the playoffs. If Pitts or Anaheim get bounced in the first round, how much do you think they offer for Kesler?

 

[CanaFan]

Per a year, Sundin style.

Sedins are signed until they're 38. I think the hometown discount guys probably care more about getting another chance to win before it shrinks anymore than it has.

Agree to disagree. Sundin occured at a different time for this team. Long-serving NHL star brought in to show a young, up and coming team how to win. Far different from the environment of an old, declining core that was told to buy into a salary system for the collective good of the team. Can't see that being anything but disruptive in the dressing room and serve as a bulls eye for criticism of Mike Gillis ("he's desperate", "he doesn't know what he's doing", etc etc). Nor can I see the Aquilini's signing on to a deal to massively overpay a player with no guarantees of playoffs.

Interesting idea, but doesn't feel right this time around.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Thing is how often has Gillis _had_ to make a deal in his tenure here? Other than trading one of our two goalies and the Hodgson deal, none really. Gillis is a master at 'tinkering' with a line up which sums up most of his trades. There have been few 'blockbuster' deals to evaluate Gillis on, the Schneider and Hodgson deals are probably the closest. Ironically I actually feel he did well in both trades but I seem to be in the minority there.

With you on the last point. I thought he got good value. I just didn't like that he was forced to deal Schneider. The 'optics' colour it more than the value received. Pretty happy that he got Horvat.

Kassian too is advancing steadily.

On the larger point, yes, Gillis largely works at the periphery of his core. A lot of his deals don't touch the core. However, the Ballard deal could be seen as a "big deal", depending upon your definition.

 

[Wisp]

Agree to disagree. Sundin occured at a different time for this team. Long-serving NHL star brought in to show a young, up and coming team how to win. Far different from the environment of an old, declining core that was told to buy into a salary system for the collective good of the team. Can't see that being anything but disruptive in the dressing room and serve as a bulls eye for criticism of Mike Gillis ("he's desperate", "he doesn't know what he's doing", etc etc). Nor can I see the Aquilini's signing on to a deal to massively overpay a player with no guarantees of playoffs.

Interesting idea, but doesn't feel right this time around.

I feel like if it was a short contract - one or two years at 10 - it's an easy sell. At that point you can start examining what to do as prospects mature and others start contracts expire.

 

[dwarf]

The only trade I think he has been taken to the cleaners is the Schneider trade, and he's not exactly in bad company for those who Lou Lamiorello has fleeced in the last 26 years.

I think in the long term this could be Gillis' best ever trade. Corey was having issues with anxiety and couldn't play for us that one playoff. And I really expect Horvat to be a Smyl type player.

Gillis' worst ever trade was the Ballard deal.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I've thought about this for a while and I think Gillis made a mistake by chasing a certain type of hockey, which he acknowledged in his speech.
Rather than focusing on a style of team such as tough teams like the Bruins and LA vs skilled teams like the Hawks, I think he should have focused on a different distinction.

In my view, it's more useful to break teams into three categories: Good teams, average teams and poor teams. The goal should be to build a good team and not worry about the style. What do all good teams like the Bruins, Hawks, LA and St Louis have in common? Tremendous depth. They can all survive major injuries, even in the playoffs. The Canucks team that lost to the Bruins also had that depth. You don't get to game 7 of the SCF without it. Of course it's more than depth it's also skill at every position and it's young players coming up on cheap contracts to fill a key role.

This year's team fits more in the average category. Not a ton of depth and lacking some skill especially in the goal scoring area and not much youth being injected. Rather than focusing on a style of play Gillis should be focusing on assembling more talent and bringing in younger players. The style of the team will emerge depending on who is available and how players develop.

I realize that some of this is kind of obvious but I think the distinction between a skilled vs tough team is pretty meaningless. The Bruins have lots of skill and the Hawks have lots of toughness. You play the style of hockey that your personnel dictates rather than trying to force players to play a certain style. But the first goal should be to build a good team with tons of depth.

 

[dwarf]

I get the feeling Gillis is going to make some big changes this summer.

I agree. I don't expect much on the trade front, but when it comes to the UFA season, I expect a vet goalie, at least one first line player, maybe two.

Gillis was a player agent, and I hope he goes to what he can do best, and that is signing UFAs.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I agree. I don't expect much on the trade front, but when it comes to the UFA season, I expect a vet goalie, at least one first line player, maybe two.
:

I think the exact opposite. The UFA market is pretty weak, I can't see any of those players actually signing here.
Gillis knows missing the playoffs next season means he's fired, so he'll try to make a big trade. I doubt kesler stays, and if anyone is going to waive a NTC it's after a pathetic season like this.

 

[phosphene*]

Darcy Regier for GM? He has a brilliant trade resume and seeing that you guys are likely to retool by selling off major assets, he would be a good fit. Just my two cents.

 

[Nucker101]

Darcy Regier for GM? He has a brilliant trade resume and seeing that you guys are likely to retool by selling off major assets, he would be a good fit. Just my two cents.

No thanks. I'd prefer a guy like McNab who has a great eye for talent.

 

[David71]

#firegillis