Do you still believe in this core?
- Thread starter Up the Irons
- Start date
I'm not willing to write off the young players on the team until there is some semblance of competent upper management, and a real coaching staff(which would come with competent management).
Until then, we've been blaming players for a decade now, yet the only thing that is consistent during this progressively worsening sh**-show - Lowe and his cronies. These guys were failing long before Hall and friends came on the scene, there is zero reason to believe that just because you plug a couple of 1st overall players into a roster, they'll suddenly gain the ability to not be the worst management group in the NHL.
Which the Oilers have pretty much proven beyond all reasonable doubt.
Until then, we've been blaming players for a decade now, yet the only thing that is consistent during this progressively worsening sh**-show - Lowe and his cronies. These guys were failing long before Hall and friends came on the scene, there is zero reason to believe that just because you plug a couple of 1st overall players into a roster, they'll suddenly gain the ability to not be the worst management group in the NHL.
Which the Oilers have pretty much proven beyond all reasonable doubt.
Up the Irons
Registered User
Took a pill in Sbisa
2showToffoliIwascool
Blaming players? How many coaches have we been through? Tambo was blamed more than anyone.
The players have been getting the least of the blame really.
As for the OP:
To be honest, I believed in Hall, Eberle, RNH when we drafted them and they started their NHL careers. However, from the beginning, I knew they needed skilled veterans to teach them to round their games out to be more complete players. I knew Horcoff could only take them so far. I knew this because of the evidence that is Sam Gagner. I was stoked when we drafted Gagner. I remember when he owned, and I mean owned the Russians in that Canada-Russia junior series the summer he was drafted. He came on to the Oilers all guns blazing, anchoring that kid line and perfecting that shootout move. But never quite developed. Neither did Cogliano, so they traded him.
Point is, I idiotically assumed we'd bring in someone to teach these players. If not a star player, than a great coach. The highest scoring veteran forward we've brought in since drafting Hall 4 years ago before this season is Eric Belanger (16 points). Once we got Schultz and Yakupov my mindset had changed, and I knew these 2 would just go on the same path: developmental stagnation.
Since drafting Hall, they've had Renney, who was average, followed by 2 coaches who have never head-coached in the NHL, ever.
Can we blame these kids for not developing? Maybe. Do I believe these kids can take us to the cup? Not anymore.
The players have been getting the least of the blame really.
As for the OP:
To be honest, I believed in Hall, Eberle, RNH when we drafted them and they started their NHL careers. However, from the beginning, I knew they needed skilled veterans to teach them to round their games out to be more complete players. I knew Horcoff could only take them so far. I knew this because of the evidence that is Sam Gagner. I was stoked when we drafted Gagner. I remember when he owned, and I mean owned the Russians in that Canada-Russia junior series the summer he was drafted. He came on to the Oilers all guns blazing, anchoring that kid line and perfecting that shootout move. But never quite developed. Neither did Cogliano, so they traded him.
Point is, I idiotically assumed we'd bring in someone to teach these players. If not a star player, than a great coach. The highest scoring veteran forward we've brought in since drafting Hall 4 years ago before this season is Eric Belanger (16 points). Once we got Schultz and Yakupov my mindset had changed, and I knew these 2 would just go on the same path: developmental stagnation.
Since drafting Hall, they've had Renney, who was average, followed by 2 coaches who have never head-coached in the NHL, ever.
Can we blame these kids for not developing? Maybe. Do I believe these kids can take us to the cup? Not anymore.
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Hall and RNH are going to be good players, but not franchise saving players on their own.
They are not in the Crosby/Ovy/Malkin tier obviously, but they are not in the Toews/Kane/Tavares tier either.
They are a notch below. Nathan MacKinnon has a good chance of being better than any of them.
Yakupov right now isn't as good as either Hall or RNH.
The franchise is also done in their by their terrible d-corps, poor coaching, poor management, and spotty goaltending (at least until this recent stretch of Bryz/Scrivens being here).
They are not in the Crosby/Ovy/Malkin tier obviously, but they are not in the Toews/Kane/Tavares tier either.
They are a notch below. Nathan MacKinnon has a good chance of being better than any of them.
Yakupov right now isn't as good as either Hall or RNH.
The franchise is also done in their by their terrible d-corps, poor coaching, poor management, and spotty goaltending (at least until this recent stretch of Bryz/Scrivens being here).
The Human Torch
Registered User
It's simply impossible to know what the current core is or is not capable of accomplishing when they've been held back by the demonstrably worst ownership and management group in the NHL and arguably pro sports altogether.
I agree with this. Sadly though The 3 Amigos are now vastly overpaid for what they bring to the table, making it difficult to bring in additional players cap wise. They should have been signed to lesser, short tern contracts, and paid for their performance and not future potential.
I can't imagine how any player on this team is untouchable.
I guess the only untouchable in the organization would be KLowe.
Up the Irons
Registered User
I think they could have been (especially Hall) and they still might, but no question the organization has failed them. they are not being developed well and may not reach their ceiling (probably won't).
but the core's makeup is completely messed up and I can't understand, for the life of me, why anyone would believe so strongly in it. A good manager would have moved at least 3 of these guys (if you include Gagner) a long time ago and this team would be well on its way, just like Dallas and Colorado.
we are witnessing the worst period of team management in NHL history. mark my words, this Oilers' era will be spoken about for years, even decades, as an example of how not to do it.
Mike Milbury must be secretly doing cartwheels!!
There have been few constants within the organization since the 2006 playoff run, and it most certainly hasn't been the players. Bad contracts, terrible trades, complete inability to acquire talent outside of 1st overall picks, terrible coaching hires, complete lack of accountability both on and off the ice - none of those things are the result of the players.
How many players do fans need to turn on before everyone stops going after the easiest target? The roster has been overhauled numerous times - how is the guy who stated to season ticket holders that Gagner, Cogliano, and Nilsson would lead the Oilers to a Stanley cup still employed? How is a guy who drove players out of the city, once looked around the dressing room at his non-playoff calibre team and declared it capable of winning the division, who was a bottom 5 coach his entire 9 year tenure; now in charge of talent assessment, player acquisition, and coach hiring for the franchise?
Who cares if the players tune out the coach, they didn't create the situation where they have a new coach every single year, nor did they have any say when the organizations was hiring woefully ill suited coaches. None of those coaches were fired even fired because they couldn't get results, they were fired because management can't make up it's bloody mind and changes the plan every 6 months. Hell, the guy leading the new plan was such a disaster that when he implemented his pet system with the woefully flawed and overmatched roster, he had the entire team out of the playoffs 3 weeks into the season, not to mention he probably ended the NHL careers of two separate NHL goaltenders.
The few talented players the team has managed to acquire in the last few years aren't miracle workers. It's a team game, and this is a very badly constructed/led team. Even if you want to cite entitlement, lack of buy-in, or any of that stuff to try and vilify certain players, why would you blame them for a situation created by the management group? The players aren't the ones handing out the contracts, hiring coaches that coddle them, dictating ice time, nor are they responsible for organizational accountability.
The players aren't to blame for this mess, nor are they lost causes - that's a status in this organization that management is the exclusive holder of.
Up the Irons
Registered User
you make some good points. we all agree that management has failed these players. Even in the drafting of some of them. Yak should not have been drafted, not because he wasn't the best, but because we simply didn't need another winger of his type. Eberle is a good player, but no where near a franchise untouchable. Same goes for J. Schultz. all attractive players, but not a fit as a group here. it's so obvious, yet not to Mact and KLowe. that is what is so inexplicable.
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I don't think the core should be traded, they need to be added upon, because while they are decent players they're not top-tier players on their own. RNH's development curve will likely be a lot like the Sedins for starters. Meaning that's something that's going to take years. Yakupov may take even longer.
Getting Ekblad this year would be a huge help.
Firing the management group would be a huge help.
Firing Eakins and bringing in a head coach with experience who isn't 900 years old like Pat Quinn would be a huge help.
I've accepted that we probably are going to suck for another 2-3 years no matter what at this point. If that changes, great, but I'm not expecting miracles here. It's going to be ****** for a while longer. That's all there is to it, IMO.
At this point I think it's just better to suck it up and take it rather than panic and start doing stupid things. I don't want to be the Milbury Islanders where they traded away the likes of Luongo, Chara, Spezza, etc. for quick fixes. Change the management group and coaching, yes of course.
Getting Ekblad this year would be a huge help.
Firing the management group would be a huge help.
Firing Eakins and bringing in a head coach with experience who isn't 900 years old like Pat Quinn would be a huge help.
I've accepted that we probably are going to suck for another 2-3 years no matter what at this point. If that changes, great, but I'm not expecting miracles here. It's going to be ****** for a while longer. That's all there is to it, IMO.
At this point I think it's just better to suck it up and take it rather than panic and start doing stupid things. I don't want to be the Milbury Islanders where they traded away the likes of Luongo, Chara, Spezza, etc. for quick fixes. Change the management group and coaching, yes of course.
Blue And Orange
Oilers & Seahawks
This is the sentiment I feel.
We failed to surround the kids with proper veterans. None of our young players were developed the right way. It is sad beyond belief.
The toxicity associated with this organization is astounding.
The core has been poisoned mentally and the only way we're going to see winning is if we break the core up and start afresh.
This rebuild failed miserably.
The oilers won't make the playoffs until 2020.
Unfortunately it looks like we got three no.1s with none of them being as good as a Toews (I'll leave Crosby out of it).
That said, I don't want to trade them away for the sake of doing something. At this point I'd rather just be patient with them and upgrade the coaching/management and hopefully add another solid piece to the core from this year's draft.
GretzkytoKurri9917
"LIVE LONG AND PROSPER"
Well wasn't your wish to get Ekblad and MacKinnon? Looks like they're well on their way to that, maybe they can re-evaluate after that.
poetryingasoline
Registered User
- Feb 20, 2008
- 436
- 0
I agree with a lot of posters here in that the development of the big 4 has stagnated under the current management structure. #firelowe
I do not want to write off Eakins just yet. When he was with the Marlies he had a losing season followed by a decent one then a trip to the final. I am hoping that the team will grow with him and he can choose his own assistants.
Eakins honestly seems like the worst coach in Oilers history. I'm not sure if I'm willing to burn another season just so he can learn how to coach at the NHL level.
GretzkytoKurri9917
"LIVE LONG AND PROSPER"
Hey,as a fan,I only wanted Mackinnon and Ekblad because I believed,and still do,that that management is too incompetent to build a successful team through other means.
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
lets see
Hall is 22 and has 85 goals in 3.5 seasons Hall is top of his class
Nuge is 20 and has 37 in 2 seasons he is second in his draft class across the board
eberrle is 23 and has 87 and has the second most goals in his draft class and is 4th in pts in the fewest game
the problem is that they all get points in bunches-- they are not playing complete games and they go MIA on the score sheet alot
oilers need a better supporting cast
t
Hall is 22 and has 85 goals in 3.5 seasons Hall is top of his class
Nuge is 20 and has 37 in 2 seasons he is second in his draft class across the board
eberrle is 23 and has 87 and has the second most goals in his draft class and is 4th in pts in the fewest game
the problem is that they all get points in bunches-- they are not playing complete games and they go MIA on the score sheet alot
oilers need a better supporting cast
t
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
my problem is that this board is falling in love with top picks and taking the BPA regardless if it addresses the needs of the team
They need an actual NHL blue line and one physical/dirty work player in their top six in other words.
And RNH needs to spend the summer training and eating like a bodybuilder. They all need be stronger on their skates too (Hall included). Nathan Mackinnon is stronger on his feet than any of our kids and he's a rookie.
GretzkytoKurri9917
"LIVE LONG AND PROSPER"
Too many fans on here believe that I just want this team to tank every year just for the hell of it;When the truth is,I just simply have no faith in the management and that it's only possible way-imo-to turn this team around, since the management is so obtuse.
I find it tough to second guess the draft picks personally. They were all the consensus best players in the draft(ie, top ranked by more than just the Oilers scouting staff, big plus there), and Eberle is arguably one of the best picks late in a first round of his draft year
I would strongly disagree with you about Yakupov, but at the same time - is the organization really better off if they draft a defenseman like Murray or Reinhart over Yakupov when the new rookie GM's solution for a team with too many small top 6 forwards, a terrible defense, and a rookie head coach struggling to make an impact; is to go out and acquire another small top 6 winger(albeit a feisty one), downgrade the defense, and hire another rookie coach? How do we say definitively whether the picks were good or bad when issues like that obfuscate our ability to make accurate assessments of players?
It just seems like such a minor quibble given so many bigger problems continue to plague the team.
I'm confused... it's been a long time since we envisioned out core staying intact, hasn't it? For the past 2 years we've been talking about how our core is too soft and too small.
There are obviously trades to be made and the most common point is that we should trade a right winger. (Yak or Ebs)
So yeah... maybe you can take the "still" out of the title.
There are obviously trades to be made and the most common point is that we should trade a right winger. (Yak or Ebs)
So yeah... maybe you can take the "still" out of the title.
