Do you find the Coyotes enjoyable to watch, and do you?

[Jakey53]

I didn't take it that way. Just pointing out the obvious. It's possible to enjoy a sport without an in depth understanding of the game.

I agree.

 

[Fyreman]

I'm with you guys. How can any hockey fan vote no? It's not always about winning. Sure winning is more fun, but in the Coyotes case, their rebuild is fun to watch. I still love watching OEL and the other vets, the emotions of the players, the kids developing right in front of our eyes and the excitement you see in their faces. Like kihekah19 mentioned, most do not understand how hard the game of hockey is to play. These players, both good and bad, spend almost their entire life, living and breathing hockey in the hopes of making it to the NHL someday. Hockey is just fun to watch, period.

Interesting, the operative word to me was "enjoy". Do I "enjoy" the 'Yotes going on 5-6-9 game losing streaks? Saw enough of that last year. Do I "enjoy" the GF-GA to be 74-35 in those losing streaks?

I understand the meaning of a rebuild, but I also want to see some improvement over the last year. The 'dump and chase' or 'chip and chase' can only be "enjoyed" for so long...

 

[MIGs Dog]

Interesting, the operative word to me was "enjoy". Do I "enjoy" the 'Yotes going on 5-6-9 game losing streaks? Saw enough of that last year. Do I "enjoy" the GF-GA to be 74-35 in those losing streaks?

I understand the meaning of a rebuild, but I also want to see some improvement over the last year. The 'dump and chase' or 'chip and chase' can only be "enjoyed" for so long...

I will admit that sometimes my level of "enjoyment" has diminished by the 3rd period, and decide to hit the bed, but I am in the central time zone.

By the next game those unpleasant memories are flushed from pre-frontal lobe and I'm excited for the opportunity to root for my Coyotes.

 

[XX]

Being a fan of hockey and not just all things Arizona is exactly why watching the games isn't enjoyable. You become fully aware of what you are missing, and what you put up with as a fan of this... organization. The Coyotes are hard to watch and enjoy for a majority of people. That's why the team is on the chopping block all the time. We're the diehards so it's not exactly representative.

I don't really get the point of the poll other than enabling a handful of people to bash others/imply they're too stupid to understand the game.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Being a fan of hockey and not just all things Arizona is exactly why watching the games isn't enjoyable. You become fully aware of what you are missing, and what you put up with as a fan of this... organization.

But what's the alternative? They move and you support an out of market team with limited opportunity to see a game live?

I rooted for the Cubs for 50 years...finally paid off.

Hopefully we don't have to wait that long with the Coyotes, but I've proven I have fan stamina.

 

[Guest]

But what's the alternative? They move and you support an out of market team with limited opportunity to see a game live?

It is not that binary, you act like those are the only two options.

1) Watch the poorly run team
2) Switch your allegiance to another team
3) Coyotes move and follow them in that market
4) Stop following the NHL/hockey

There are probably a number of other options as well.

This reminds me more of settling than anything, which is probably why there is not more pressure on ownership. They know the local fans will settle just to have the game in town. Fans are married to the team, even though the team cheats on them and treats them like garbage. Usually in that scenario the "fans" only leave the team when a more attractive option becomes available or they just cannot stand it anymore.

 

[Jakey53]

But what's the alternative? They move and you support an out of market team with limited opportunity to see a game live?

I rooted for the Cubs for 50 years...finally paid off.

Hopefully we don't have to wait that long with the Coyotes, but I've proven I have fan stamina.

Exactly. I love all things hockey. Sure it gets frustrating at times, but that is sports. We are blessed to have a team in this city.

 

[Jakey53]

It is not that binary, you act like those are the only two options.

1) Watch the poorly run team
2) Switch your allegiance to another team
3) Coyotes move and follow them in that market
4) Stop following the NHL/hockey

There are probably a number of other options as well.

This reminds me more of settling than anything, which is probably why there is not more pressure on ownership. They know the local fans will settle just to have the game in town. Fans are married to the team, even though the team cheats on them and treats them like garbage. Usually in that scenario the "fans" only leave the team when a more attractive option becomes available or they just cannot stand it anymore.

There is a lot of pressure on ownership to deliver a winning team. If ownership can not put a better product on ice, the attendance will not improve and this team will be moved. The fans settled for less a few years back when we did not have an owner, but now the fans want a better product and the ownership knows this and that is why they decided to rebuild. Unfortunately, many fans do not have patience for a rebuild and that is why you read so much junk on this forum.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

There is a lot of pressure on ownership to deliver a winning team. If ownership can not put a better product on ice, the attendance will not improve and this team will be moved.

To be perfectly honest, right now attendance is the last thing on ownership's collective minds. Whether the attendance improves is of no consequence until the issues facing the Tempe arena can be ironed out or if they move the team.

But that aside, the pressure is more to make sure they don't screw up the rebuild by caving to their fantasies that they might compete for something besides the lottery.

 

[_Del_]

If ownership can not put a better product on ice, the attendance will not improve and this team will be moved.*

At least you've finally correctly identified a chain of causality for the past five years. Though I suspect when they move you'll be quick as ever to blame the "ignorant" fans/market.

 

[Ebb]

Unfortunately, many fans do not have patience for a rebuild and that is why you read so much junk on this forum.

Although my hockey fandom is limited to the Coyotes (I started following hockey around 1996/1997 on the most part), I believe a rebuild should also be somewhat entertaining despite certain obstacles. We may be getting there, but I still kind of tune out a bit these days (compared to past seasons). At least in the past, even though we were struggling, it seemed more interesting to watch. If we are 2-3 years into a rebuild, those first two years were at least worth tuning in almost every game.

This season, I have found myself distracted or disinterested in more games than I have in the past. Admittedly, there are several external factors at play for some of this (on the Coyotes side and IRL), but things have changed...

In past seasons, games were still a "bastion of hope" for the future of my hockey fandom. Nowadays, though, some of the walls are crumbling or in disrepair. We are still at a point where it may be repaired, but we also can't let it continue to disintegrate into rubble.

So, I suppose some hope remains on my part

 

[Jakey53]

At least you've finally correctly identified a chain of causality for the past five years. Though I suspect when they move you'll be quick as ever to blame the "ignorant" fans/market.

I don't know where you get five years from. I have always said that the reset button started when IA bought the team. You and your followers are the one always talking five years and more. IF this team moves, it will be the fans/market that don't pony up and go to the games.

 

[_Del_]

Sorry, replace five with three then. Three years of a crap product preceded by a couple others and attendance has unsurprisingly not improved. Must be the fault of consumers of entertainment choosing to spend those dollars on those other products which actually provide entertainment. Solid business model.

They should just save money and open a restaurant on the edge of town and serve crappy food in small portions and then blame potential customers for not continuing to spend money there.

 

[CC96]

I don't know where you get five years from. I have always said that the reset button started when IA bought the team. You and your followers are the one always talking five years and more. IF this team moves, it will be the fans/market that don't pony up and go to the games.

Why the **** does it reset. Like why should that even remotely be relevant.

IA didn't raise the budget, and the NHL took a hands off approach to managing the team. What single difference does it even make.

 

[_Del_]

Why the **** does it reset. Like why should that even remotely be relevant.

IA didn't raise the budget, and the NHL took a hands off approach to managing the team. What single difference does it even make.

This team was more successful under the NHL's "bare bones", no scouting, under staffed, etc than we have been under IA.

 

[CC96]

This team was more successful under the NHL's "bare bones", no scouting, under staffed, etc than we have been under IA.

Yeah, it's a knock against the current administration more than anything else.

 

[Jakey53]

Why the **** does it reset. Like why should that even remotely be relevant.

IA didn't raise the budget, and the NHL took a hands off approach to managing the team. What single difference does it even make.

I have explained why many times, and if you disagree, so be it.

 

[Jakey53]

This team was more successful under the NHL's "bare bones", no scouting, under staffed, etc than we have been under IA.

We have never been in a rebuild before like we have for the past 120 games, but I guess if you have never seen one before you would not know what one is. We have never had a group of talented players on the team and in the pipeline as we do now. Again, if you do not know what your looking at I understand your confusion.

 

[_Del_]

Yeah, it's a knock against the current administration more than anything else.

Under the NHL's no budget, no investment ownership: 156 W- 138L .531 win %
IA: 112 W- 182L .381 win %


This year or last year are the apparent "start" dates for the rebuild. So let's subtract them. Give IA a mulligan for this year and last. The rebuild years don't count. Nothing before IA counts:

61 W - 103 L .372 win %

Uh-oh. Even worse.

Incompetanking.

 

[CC96]

I have explained why many times, and if you disagree, so be it.

No you haven't, go ahead and do it again.

 

[Guest]

Unfortunately, many fans do not have patience for a rebuild and that is why you read so much junk on this forum.

I do not think that there is a lack of patience, it is the way they are going about this rebuild that looks to be riddled with mistakes. If this was a rebuild that was on the right track, I think there would be much more support for it.

Over all of the years back to the Tkachuk & Roenick days I always supported a full rebuild. The past couple of years has been the first time they actually attempted it. There have been some assets gathered in the process and it is not an outright failure, but it has not proven to be a success either.

I am reminded to when the Hawks first started their rebuild and they thought they were on the right path with Tyler Arnason as their top center. He topped out as a 55 point center and was out of the league 5 years later. Mark Bell and Kyle Calder were cornerstones for them, and again 5 years later they were gone. It was not until they started getting Kane, Toews, Keith, Duncan, etc. that the rebuild actually took hold.

I think the Coyotes are closer to the Arnason-Calder-Bell days than the Kane-Toews-Keith days at the moment and I have not seen anything to cause more optimism than that just yet.

 

[Jakey53]

I do not think that there is a lack of patience, it is the way they are going about this rebuild that looks to be riddled with mistakes. If this was a rebuild that was on the right track, I think there would be much more support for it.

Over all of the years back to the Tkachuk & Roenick days I always supported a full rebuild. The past couple of years has been the first time they actually attempted it. There have been some assets gathered in the process and it is not an outright failure, but it has not proven to be a success either.

I am reminded to when the Hawks first started their rebuild and they thought they were on the right path with Tyler Arnason as their top center. He topped out as a 55 point center and was out of the league 5 years later. Mark Bell and Kyle Calder were cornerstones for them, and again 5 years later they were gone. It was not until they started getting Kane, Toews, Keith, Duncan, etc. that the rebuild actually took hold.

I think the Coyotes are closer to the Arnason-Calder-Bell days than the Kane-Toews-Keith days at the moment and I have not seen anything to cause more optimism than that just yet.

I disagree, but time will tell.

 

[rt]

I do not think that there is a lack of patience, it is the way they are going about this rebuild that looks to be riddled with mistakes. If this was a rebuild that was on the right track, I think there would be much more support for it.

Over all of the years back to the Tkachuk & Roenick days I always supported a full rebuild. The past couple of years has been the first time they actually attempted it. There have been some assets gathered in the process and it is not an outright failure, but it has not proven to be a success either.

I am reminded to when the Hawks first started their rebuild and they thought they were on the right path with Tyler Arnason as their top center. He topped out as a 55 point center and was out of the league 5 years later. Mark Bell and Kyle Calder were cornerstones for them, and again 5 years later they were gone. It was not until they started getting Kane, Toews, Keith, Duncan, etc. that the rebuild actually took hold.

I think the Coyotes are closer to the Arnason-Calder-Bell days than the Kane-Toews-Keith days at the moment and I have not seen anything to cause more optimism than that just yet.

Exactly.

 

[cobra427]

I do not think that there is a lack of patience, it is the way they are going about this rebuild that looks to be riddled with mistakes. If this was a rebuild that was on the right track, I think there would be much more support for it.

Over all of the years back to the Tkachuk & Roenick days I always supported a full rebuild. The past couple of years has been the first time they actually attempted it. There have been some assets gathered in the process and it is not an outright failure, but it has not proven to be a success either.

I am reminded to when the Hawks first started their rebuild and they thought they were on the right path with Tyler Arnason as their top center. He topped out as a 55 point center and was out of the league 5 years later. Mark Bell and Kyle Calder were cornerstones for them, and again 5 years later they were gone. It was not until they started getting Kane, Toews, Keith, Duncan, etc. that the rebuild actually took hold.

I think the Coyotes are closer to the Arnason-Calder-Bell days than the Kane-Toews-Keith days at the moment and I have not seen anything to cause more optimism than that just yet.

Rebuilds are long and painful. The Hawks made the playoffs once in a 10 year stretch leading up to their current run. Some of our young talent will turn into an OEL, some will be busts like Gormley. The process is long and we are still early in that process. Like the stock market, teams tend to put in a double bottom before they bounce for good. Hopefully this year will represent the second bottom where last year was a dead cat bounce, time will tell.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I do not think that there is a lack of patience, it is the way they are going about this rebuild that looks to be riddled with mistakes. If this was a rebuild that was on the right track, I think there would be much more support for it.

Over all of the years back to the Tkachuk & Roenick days I always supported a full rebuild. The past couple of years has been the first time they actually attempted it. There have been some assets gathered in the process and it is not an outright failure, but it has not proven to be a success either.

I am reminded to when the Hawks first started their rebuild and they thought they were on the right path with Tyler Arnason as their top center. He topped out as a 55 point center and was out of the league 5 years later. Mark Bell and Kyle Calder were cornerstones for them, and again 5 years later they were gone. It was not until they started getting Kane, Toews, Keith, Duncan, etc. that the rebuild actually took hold.

I think the Coyotes are closer to the Arnason-Calder-Bell days than the Kane-Toews-Keith days at the moment and I have not seen anything to cause more optimism than that just yet.

Good analysis. So how long have we "officially" been in rebuild mode? Since the Yandle trade? Is that a point in time everyone can agree on?

If that is so, we have truly been in this process for two years. Basing your premise of the rebuild on players like Arnason, Calder, and Bell shows exactly why people don't have the patience for a rebuild. They might have scored some points, but wound up forming bad habits in the "quick and easy" fix. Suddenly, they did not develop more in three years, and were out of the league. This is why you take it slowly with a rebuild, unless gifted with several generational players. We do not have several generational players. We have some good to elite players, but it may take one or two more years to add a few good/elite players to continue with.

So, I think that you are confusing the "way" of going about the rebuild idea, b/c there is an expectation for these players to have long careers (or at least longer than that of the players you had mentioned). While the "way" appears to be slow, going fast actually may have hurt those players.