Do You Believe We should Go All In Over the Next 2 Years?

[Menzinger]

What do you think Boeser would cost? That's the kind of move I can get behind in principle as he has term left but it feels like it might cost a ton! JVR is an intriguing possibility, not sure how he's playing lately but if he's still decent and would cost less than a first, yeah interesting.

I actually like the guy but don't see a fit hed be hard to work cap wise next year. My other concern is I wouldn't trust him to drive a lines offense if they needed him to

 

[francis246]

It also took him years to become that.

Exactly, LA believed in Moores potential, traded for him and allowed him to develop. If Robertson were to be traded a team, obviously they would give him every opportunity to develop for them. I’m not really sure what you’re getting at?

 

[TML Dynasty]

I was worried about our goalies health....basically thinking that at any time they could go down and we'd waste an all in move. But they've been playing so good that even losing 1 wouldn't crush our hopes. Id still perfer term over rentals but I'm all for a big splash. This is the year. Players are playing "the right way". Reward it. Reward us.

 

[NVious]

View attachment 624907
lol this board man

lets be honest, this is the best image to encapsulate the leafs experience.

Would anything surprise us at this point?

Being a fan of this team is so demoralizing you can tell us we lose in the 1st round 10-0 all 4 games and we'd be like "yeah sounds about right" oh and then we go 82-0 next year "yeah sounds about right"

 

[Tak7]

If there's anything greater than a 0% chance that both Matthews & Nylander are gone in 2 years, then yes, I go all-in.

No point holding onto picks & prospects if you don't have Matthews in 2 years time.

 

[NVious]

Which one are you:

All in Toews?

Or

All in Kane?

ROR and Tara for me, but honestly im good with any of them; Horvat/Boeser/Kane/Toews, just make the moves and basically use the draft picks provided the ask isnt insane.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Yep
This is it
After this rebuild

 

[Razz]

In years past the Leafs had very good lineups, but the problem was always Defense/Goaltending covered up by extremely potent offense. We know from painful experience that combination doesn't hold up well in the playoffs.

However, this year is the first time that I can remember that we had a top defensive team while also having game-breaking forwards at the same time. A Top-3 D is a rare occurrence that should be capitalized on for a deep run. So yeah, I'd be game for an all-in move for this season.

Go get a top-tier Left Winger and go for broke.

 

[LeafGrief]

I am far more interested in building a team that is a perpetual contender and develops prospects into impact players and signs them to reasonable contracts than I am with trying to maximize our shot any given year. Hockey is not poker, where a pair of aces and another ace on the flop means you've got it in the bag. Even with these incredible teams that we've assembled year after year, the playoffs continue to prove that stacking a roster with more and more talent doesn't actually guarantee anything. Going "All In" only really means that you guys want to add sexy names to to roster, rather than making trades that will make the team stronger.

Dubas always adds at the deadline. The Giordano add last year was nothing short of brilliant, and it didn't take an "All-In" sort of move. We did and will continue to trade futures for the present, but we will also be cognizant of the value that futures play in the team going forward.

The folks grousing about how Matthews will leave if we don't go "All-In" make me laugh. You think that if we spend all of our futures and have barren cupboards in two years that's going to make him want to stay? "Hey Tony, we shot our shot and missed, you down to spend your next contract in the doldrums while we retool?" The way we attract and retain talent is by being a high-end organization that is capable of balancing the needs of the present day team with the importance of continually building towards the future. McJesus is going to be a UFA in four years, is he going to want to come here if the cupboards are bare?

Leave the poker strategies at the poker table; treat the hockey team like a hockey team.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Look in the near future, like in the summer. Nylander will have 1 year left and is worth more than 6.9 million. The Leafs can not afford to give Nylander a raise. Matthews and Marner will get raises. Tavares isnt worth more than 7.5 million and is declining. Until this team moves Tavares, it will remain purging every bottom 6 player or even Nylander as early as this summer. Tavares is the huge mistake that ruined this teams run for playoff success. Why would Matthews stay? If Nylander gets a raise the bottom 6 issues will never go away nor will the lack of defensive talent.

 

[tom leafers]

We’ve been going all in. So other than trading 1sts sure spend more>.. how? Anyway you can.

acquire actual talented 1st or 2nd line players instead of plugs like Foligno. the best "rental" player weve traded for over the last 5 years has been Gio

 

[Confucius]

acquire actual talented 1st or 2nd line players instead of plugs like Foligno. the best "rental" player weve traded for over the last 5 years has been Gio

Pretty tough to improve our first 2 lines, Mathews, JT,Marner, Nylander, Bunting… so replace who? We would probably need another 7 million dollar player to slot into the last spot. Not possible with this team salary makeup.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

No shade on Mo, and understand that the NMC is a challenge, but I'd look at Arizona. They can't move Chychrun for the price they are asking... two firsts and a prospect... so, tell them, you'll give the equivalent, but Crouse is included. Crouse + Chychrun for 2023 1st, Mo and Robertson. Crouse has four years after this year on his contract, Chychrun has two plus this year. Again, no shade on Mo, but when Chychrun is healthy, he's a better D IMO. It clicks all the boxes, and Crouse + Chych are $8.9, while Mo is $7.5, plus any near league minimum LW makes the caps a wash. Crouse and Chych are more physical, brings size, secondary scoring...

Now, I doubt we'd move Mo, more out of loyalty than anything else, but this absolutely does what we are looking for.

I wouldn't move Mo in that deal if you bring in Chychrun you do it to play with Mo which can happen because Mo has played RD before.

Morgan Chychrun

Brodie Giordano

Lilly Sandin

Holl becomes 7 which he probably doesn't deserve because he's been great

Timmins becomes 8 which he definitely doesn't deserve because he's been great

Benn is 9.

I know you have Crouse in there too, and I LOVE his size but can he be the top 6 winger we need? He's got 1 20 goal season and a career high of 34 points I'm not so sure about that.

Beyond that if you bring him in it probably means Bunting walks.

If you want somebody with term, and that is ideal, I'd call up Columbus and inquire about Boone Jenner.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Foligno came to the Leafs injured, in hindsight it was a horrible trade. They didn’t do enough research.

Also the target should have been Taylor Hall that season. I still can’t believe we didn’t pull the trigger on Hall. We were in on both.

No he didn't he got hurt after the trade, It's unfortunate but let's not pretend that anybody was complaining about that deal because we weren't

 

[Fogelhund]

I wouldn't move Mo in that deal if you bring in Chychrun you do it to play with Mo which can happen because Mo has played RD before.

Morgan Chychrun

Brodie Giordano

Lilly Sandin

Holl becomes 7 which he probably doesn't deserve because he's been great

Timmins becomes 8 which he definitely doesn't deserve because he's been great

Benn is 9.

I know you have Crouse in there too, and I LOVE his size but can he be the top 6 winger we need? He's got 1 20 goal season and a career high of 34 points I'm not so sure about that.

Beyond that if you bring him in it probably means Bunting walks.

If you want somebody with term, and that is ideal, I'd call up Columbus and inquire about Boone Jenner.

Zero chance Columbus moves Jenner. Zero.

Chychrun and Mo are too similar, though Mo distributes the puck better and Chychrun has better D and shooting. With the cap, it’s one or the other.

Note, I was just playing around with the Cap Chych is such a big risk with his injury past.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

What do you think Boeser would cost? That's the kind of move I can get behind in principle as he has term left but it feels like it might cost a ton! JVR is an intriguing possibility, not sure how he's playing lately but if he's still decent and would cost less than a first, yeah interesting.

If you listen to the insiders it doesn't sound like Boesser would cost very much at all.

I brought this idea to the main boards in part because as you mentioned he has term.

It didn't appear to work because he's RW and the Leafs need a LW.

I'm still on that bus because we have seen Nylander play LW

 

[francis246]

No he didn't he got hurt after the trade, It's unfortunate but let's not pretend that anybody was complaining about that deal because we weren't

I was, Taylor hall was always the guy I wanted. We needed offense. I get the premise of Nick Foligno tho.

Foligno was day to day with an upper body injury on April 10th. He was acquired by the Toronto Maple Leafs on April 11th. Made his debut on April 22nd, then injured again with an upper body injury on May 5th. He probably reaggreviated whatever wasn’t that bad on April 10th. Clearly he was dealing with something throughout the year. Unfortunate but the injury reports are available you can always check them.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Zero chance Columbus moves Jenner. Zero.

Chychrun and Mo are too similar, though Mo distributes the puck better and Chychrun has better D and shooting. With the cap, it’s one or the other.

Note, I was just playing around with the Cap Chych is such a big risk with his injury past.

It's not zero, everybody has a price, EVERYBODY you find out what that is

 

[Fogelhund]

It's not zero, everybody has a price, EVERYBODY you find out what that is

Sure. But no rational person would pay the price, and Dubas certainly wouldn’t. There is zero chance that deal would happen.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Sure. But no rational person would pay the price, and Dubas certainly wouldn’t. There is zero chance that deal would happen.

I think they need to at least make the call, If the price is higher then it would be for let's say Patrick Kane then of course you don't make the deal because if Patrick Kane can be had for less than it would cost to get Boone Jenner then go get Patrick Kane because Patrick Kane is a game breaker.

But regardless of that I still think they should make the call if they haven't already

 

[Dekes For Days]

Foligno was day to day with an upper body injury on April 10th. He was acquired by the Toronto Maple Leafs on April 11th. Made his debut on April 22nd, then injured again with an upper body injury on May 5th. He probably reaggreviated whatever wasn’t that bad on April 10th. Clearly he was dealing with something throughout the year. Unfortunate but the injury reports are available you can always check them.

Players worth 1st round picks+ tend to sit the game prior to the deadline to not risk injury. Foligno had been fine the rest of the season, and nothing had happened to Foligno to cause injury the game prior. "Day to day" injuries also don't take more than his 2 week quarantine period to heal anyway. Foligno himself has confirmed multiple times that he got hurt while with us, not before, and his back injury in early May was something new and debilitating, and we saw it ourselves in the All Or Nothing series. I don't know how this myth persists.

“My biggest disappointment is we didn’t get the job done and I unfortunately got hurt,” Foligno told Good Show.

Yep. A back injury he sustained in early May significantly impacted his ability to perform and prove he could finish his career in Toronto.

“I was just dealing with a really bad back injury that was debilitating,” Foligno said. “There was nerve pain. Shut down my whole right leg. It was really disappointing that happened at the time it happened. Anything else you can play through a lot of times. This I couldn’t. I tried and I just couldn’t be the player — I like to hit and forecheck and do the things necessary in order to win the hard minutes of the game. So when that kind of got taken away now I had to rely more on my positional play and trying not to hurt the team, instead of trying to help the team it felt like. That bothered me a lot as a player just because I knew I could give more, I just physically couldn’t.”

Preferring other targets is fine - I probably would have preferred Hall as well - but let's not misrepresent what happened with Foligno.

 

[ACC1224]

I was, Taylor hall was always the guy I wanted. We needed offense. I get the premise of Nick Foligno tho.

Foligno was day to day with an upper body injury on April 10th. He was acquired by the Toronto Maple Leafs on April 11th. Made his debut on April 22nd, then injured again with an upper body injury on May 5th. He probably reaggreviated whatever wasn’t that bad on April 10th. Clearly he was dealing with something throughout the year. Unfortunate but the injury reports are available you can always check them.

Yeah they bought damaged goods, certainly a learning moment for our young GM.
Live and learn.

I think he'll only be targeting high end targets this deadline, as he should.

 

[FiveHoleo]

They have been going all in, they just aren't very good at it.

They haven't been going all in at all. They haven't traded future 1st round picks or even current 1st round picks to improve the team recently, they haven't even traded b level prospects. That's not called going all in, that's called dipping your toes in.

Having said that I have no doubt you are correct about Dubas being crummy at doing it when he finally decides to go all in. We will be trading top prospects and multiple 1st round picks for the most underwhelming package of former Sault Greyhounds are rejects from the KHL you have ever seen.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah they bought damaged goods, certainly a learning moment for our young GM.
Live and learn.
I think he'll only be targeting high end targets this deadline, as he should.

Foligno wasn't "damaged goods". He was healthy (and actually PPG through his first 4 games with us) until he experienced a debilitating injury in early May, while on the Leafs, that forced him to both miss games and change his style of play. There's nothing to learn from a player getting injured. It can happen to anybody.

And like him or not, Foligno was a high-end target, which is why multiple teams, including last years Cup Champion, were offering 1sts.

 

[nuck]

It's not zero, everybody has a price, EVERYBODY you find out what that is

CBJ are in the Bedard/Fantilli/Michkov sweepstakes. I would think anybody but Johnny G, Laine and Werenski are available.
Based on some of the overpays from last TDL and his term and AAV you would think he would be a steep get, especially if they want Kerf to go the other way. He is a guy I have always liked but if they can only afford 1 big change he isn't the scoring winger they need.