Do you believe in Dubas?

[Jojalu]

yes that is true. My mistake.

I misspoke for sure, but my point remains the same though. Zach may have been drafted by FLA, but he was developed entirely by TOR. His loyalty to the Leafs wouldn't have differed whether or he was drafted by us or acquired in D+1 or D+2.

The argument was that franchise players don't leave their drafted clubs, and although Zach is not a franchise player, nor was he drafted by us, there was an inherent loyalty he would have had to us being the club that gave him his shot.

But it is a business. He chose a better opportunity. Maybe it was the NMC, maybe it was more money, or maybe Zach just felt like EDM had a better chance to win. My entire point was that 1 year ago, myself, and others, felt it was incomprehensible that Zach would ever want to leave TOR. When in actuality the exact opposite unfolded.

Some people may want to believe Auston will undoubtingly resign with us in 2024, but we've seen this story before. He has the right to explore other options should he desire. So I just don't know how anyone could irrefutably deny that as a possibility.

I agree with you. While fun, it is fruitless to speculate what an athlete might do.

They have trained to say generic catch phrases and speak to the media in a way that causes zero controversey.

I enjoy speculating and coming up with reasons why Matthews or anyone would want to or should stay but in the end, his reasons will greatly differ from mine.

 

[PromisedLand]

Losing first or losing last is still losing.

Only one team wins.

There is something called "progress" eventhough only one team wins. What's the Leafs' post season progress? Given that 50% of the cap is allocated to 4 forwards with not enough left for depth/blue line or goalie for a good team composition that is competitive in the playoffs.

There is ZERO progress under Dubas

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Leafs have had ZERO playoff success. Matthews and Nylander are pendiing UFAs in a couple years. Cap aint going anywhere.

Absolutely terrible foresight. McDavid and Draisaitl sign 8 year deals, dubas goes and hands out the most player friendly deal at the expense of the team composition. That is not a good GM looking out for team success.

I'll assume by rambling about anything but the subject presented you have no answer?

 

[Stonehands1990]

Check the signing date on those 2nd contracts.

It wasn't a BS sample though. It was the players I provided demonstrating that 5 year 2nd contracts with NMC's in the 5 year are pretty commonplace to stars. The point he was trying to make... irrelevant bellyaching.

Good point. All of those guys signed for 5 years on their 2nd deals

I just see those 4 names used a lot to bash our guys for not winning earlier. I was mistaken at what point you were illustrating

 

[PromisedLand]

if you want to tilt at windmills I suppose you're in the right spot. I'm glad that mods have shown some discretion to leave this thread open well past it's "limit". It's great having a catch all spot for those that would rather dislike Dubas than enjoy a 13-6-1 team winning despite it's star offense underproducing.

Oh don't worry if this thread gets closed I'll make another one. 57% of the fans do not have any faith in Dubas. If the poll was tilted another way I would not make a new thread.

The only "windmill" is by the dubas fans who cannot take any criticism of dubas despite dubas' decisions having no positive impact on the team while having ZERO post-season progress.

 

[PromisedLand]

I'll assume by rambling about anything but the subject presented you have no answer?

I guess you resort to calling other posters posts "rambling" when you have no counter. I care about Leafs' success whether it is under dubas or not.

Based on the poll and on ice evidence it is clear that success is not going to happen under dubas

 

[Gary Nylund]

Oh don't worry if this thread gets closed I'll make another one. 57% of the fans do not have any faith in Dubas. If the poll was tilted another way I would not make a new thread.

The only "windmill" is by the dubas fans who cannot take any criticism of dubas despite dubas' decisions having no positive impact on the team while having ZERO post-season progress.

I believe that's like two people. I suggest you put them on ignore if it helps you sleep better at night.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

 

[Dreakmur]

It's gone up an average of about 2.8 M per year, so today it should be around $5.6 M higher.

This means if you deemed him worthy of the risk, you could have kept Hyman along with the rest. Or you could have gone shopping elsewhere.

If the cap raised, so too would the cost of contracts signed since. Odds are we'd have similar cap circumstances.

 

[Dekes For Days]

don’t you think people prop up Dubas more than he should?

No, quite the opposite. He gets dumped on way, way, way more than he should. Often by people using hindsight, baseless fan speculation, a lack of understanding when it comes to post-ELC contract valuation, and something something PLAYOFFS!!!RAAAAGE.

Shouldn’t Dubas also get criticism for the stuff he did wrong?

Sure.

End of the day we’re at the same spot we were with Lou.

Except we're not. We're in a much better spot than we were with Lou, despite dealing with infinitely more complicated and difficult situations.

 

[Fogelhund]

Based on the poll and on ice evidence it is clear that success is not going to happen under dubas

A poll influences on ice activity? Seriously?

On Ice evidence, points to that they haven't had success yet. There is no clear evidence, that they will, or won't in the future.. that's just projecting.

Really, this is just silly talk.

 

[4thline]

Good point. All of those guys signed for 5 years on their 2nd deals

I just see those 4 names used a lot to bash our guys for not winning earlier. I was mistaken at what point you were illustrating

Not your fault. These things happen when people quote random posts from days ago and launch off on a vitriolic tangent unrelated to the discussion they were quoted from.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I guess you resort to calling other posters posts "rambling" when you have no counter. I care about Leafs' success whether it is under dubas or not.

Based on the poll and on ice evidence it is clear that success is not going to happen under dubas

To quote the Crazy Irishman from Braveheart: "steck to tha soobject and answer tha f&*kin question". LOL

Kind of impossible to discuss something when you veer completely off what was being asked. Anyone got a moving goalposts gif?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

If the cap raised, so too would the cost of contracts signed since. Odds are we'd have similar cap circumstances.

We're mostly looking for filler.

 

[PromisedLand]

No, quite the opposite. He gets dumped on way, way, way more than he should. Often by people using hindsight, baseless fan speculation, a lack of understanding when it comes to post-ELC contract valuation, and something something PLAYOFFS!!!RAAAAGE.

Sure.

Except we're not. We're in a much better spot than we were with Lou, despite dealing with infinitely more complicated and difficult situations.

How is it that Dubas came into a spot much tougher than Lou?

Dubas inherited a team with plenty of cap space, assets, etc... He had full autonomy to put his stamp on the team.

Dubas walked into a position that other GMs would give an arm and leg for to be in...

 

[4thline]

A poll influences on ice activity? Seriously?

On Ice evidence, points to that they haven't had success yet. There is no clear evidence, that they will, or won't in the future.. that's just projecting.

Really, this is just silly talk.

All in all though, I'm completely on board with having a dedicated circlejerk bash fest thread for people that can't enjoy this team. Keeps the board tidy.

 

[Acesup]

There is something called "progress" eventhough only one team wins. What's the Leafs' post season progress? Given that 50% of the cap is allocated to 4 forwards with not enough left for depth/blue line or goalie for a good team composition that is competitive in the playoffs.

There is ZERO progress under Dubas

The team is considerably better under Dubas in terms of product. Results are not there, that doesn't mean the product isn't better.

Listen if Lou was still GM we would be in the same cap crunch. Would we maybe have a few million more in cap? Possibly? But look at the awful contracts signed by Lou. Andersson turned out be a bust. Marleau was awful. Even if he signs the core three to a lesser contract I have no faith that he doesn't sign some over the hill vet to a terrible deal to negate much of that.

Who is better at finding value should be the question.

Dubas has picked up key contributers the past few years: Spezza, Bogosian, Brodie is a steal, Muzzin good contract and trade, Kase, Kampf, Kerfoot is good value. Pretty good drafting. Not to mention picking up a vezina caliber goalie for peanuts.

Also any bad pickups by Dubas is negated by the fact that none of the contracts handed out are crippling.

Basically the goaltending and defense is way better under Dubas then it was when Lou was here. I don't think Lou would manage the cap better. I also don't think he finds value as well as Dubas does. I have no issue with Dubas other than Keefe. The big guns need to get their ish together because they need to perform to expectations. Thats not on Dubas its on them.

 

[Dreakmur]

We're mostly looking for filler.

We've signed a lot of contracts since the flat cap.

 

[PromisedLand]

A poll influences on ice activity? Seriously?

On Ice evidence, points to that they haven't had success yet. There is no clear evidence, that they will, or won't in the future.. that's just projecting.

Really, this is just silly talk.

Same can be said for every NHL team/ THey haven't had success yet.... Whats so special about dubas then? I'd argue that Dubas has ruined any chance of success that Leafs would have had due to the contracts he gave out, the picks he squandered and team composition that is yet to show any progress in the playoffs.

Dubas walked into a situation that was very GM friendly...

plenty of cap space, assets, team on the rise.... and...

we got
- CBJ series (did not even make playoffs)
- Zamboni driver game
- Montreal series
- Montreal colours on CN Tower
- Significant cap crunch with no playoff progress
- squandered picks/assets for nothing to show
- etc...

I could go on....

How can a Leaf fan be alright with what has transpired under Dubas' tutelage is beyond me

 

[Apex Predator]

No, quite the opposite. He gets dumped on way, way, way more than he should. Often by people using hindsight, baseless fan speculation, a lack of understanding when it comes to post-ELC contract valuation, and something something PLAYOFFS!!!RAAAAGE.

Sure.

Except we're not. We're in a much better spot than we were with Lou, despite dealing with infinitely more complicated and difficult situations.

I’m sure others will give you a hard time but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I see it as Lou and Dubas have had regular season success with the teams but both have failed to get over the hump in the playoffs. That could change this year or we might be in the same spot again with same questions.

I’m sitting back and enjoying the ride this season but i can’t say one has done better than the other when end results have been the same.

 

[TheDoldrums]

 

[Dekes For Days]

Dubas inherited a team with plenty of cap space, assets, etc...

He didn't though. He inherited a team propped up by unsustainable factors, that was #1 in the league in cap expenditure the prior year despite countless ELCs set to be re-signed, with multiple anchor contracts, a drained pipeline, departing depth, a bad defense, a toxic coach, a strained relationship with the best players on the team, and an upcoming worldwide pandemic that would unexpectedly stagnate the cap right after all his signings, in a market that had skyrocketed expectations.

 

[Fogelhund]

Same can be said for every NHL team/ THey haven't had success yet.... Whats so special about dubas then? I'd argue that Dubas has ruined any chance of success that Leafs would have had due to the contracts he gave out, the picks he squandered and team composition that is yet to show any progress in the playoffs.

Dubas walked into a situation that was very GM friendly...

plenty of cap space, assets, team on the rise.... and...

we got
- CBJ series (did not even make playoffs)
- Zamboni driver game
- Montreal series
- Montreal colours on CN Tower
- Significant cap crunch with no playoff progress
- squandered picks/assets for nothing to show
- etc...

I could go on....

How can a Leaf fan be alright with what has transpired under Dubas' tutelage is beyond me

Argue all you want... the team is 8-2 in the last ten, and here you are, still complaining and whining about the team. I can see that you are vested in failure, hoping for it, to prove how right you were all along. Sad.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Kyle was gifted with one of the most promising set of young players.

He was also tasked with getting all of these players under contract after the termination of their ELC's

If anyone thinks this was an easy task, they clearly have no clue what they are talking about. He had to deal with Zaitsev's mess, Marleau's mess, Matt Martin mess, 1.2AAV less via Kessel mess, a toxic head coach, and an unforeseen flat cap. Despite all that, the team has still gotten better. Despite what some may think, and despite the post season results.

the process has vastly improved, the results will likely follow.

The defensive group has exponentially improved since he took over, and we finally have a roster that has shown back to back years of playing a 200ft game.

People can suggest the narrative that this team doesn't have the ability to play playoff style hockey, I just disagree. The way they played most of last year and this year would suggest otherwise. This team battles demons in between the ears, and only time will tell if they can overcome that. I have a lot of sympathy for Kyle TBH. He's put together very strong contending rosters year over year, and they cannot get out of their own way.

 

[Dreakmur]

How can a Leaf fan be alright with what has transpired under Dubas' tutelage is beyond me

Many people cheer for things they understand and identify with.