Do you believe Brent Burns is a future Hall of Famer?

[Crosby2010]

He is an interesting case who has a career arc that I can't put my finger on, nor can I compare it to anyone.

Discuss.

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[The Panther]

Not sure. But it's bizzare that Burns played under pre-Lock Out Jacques Lemaire and that he was a teammate of Alexandre Daigle.

 

[Michael Farkas]

He's a way lesser Eddie Shore for me. But that's stylistic and not accomplishments, of course. I don't find Burns to be a hall of famer...but he's a really interesting fella...

 

[RussianShark]

Probably would have to take a Stanley Cup or 1,000 points. Took a bit too long to reach stardom.

 

[Felidae]

Norris finishes: 1, 2, 3, 8, 10, 12, 22.

As russianshark said, feels like he reached stardom too late, and then didn't maintain it for long enough.

But I'm interested in who else has comparable Norris finishes and isn't in the hall of fame. PK Subban has similar norris finishes, in his case he reached stardom early and declined much faster. Who else?

 

[The Panther]

Pretty unique (I think?) to have Norris finishes of 1, 2, 3, and then nothing much else that's significant.

His 8th place finish in 2018 voting saw him receive less than 3% of the vote, and he was only top-10 because someone (some nutter) gave him a 1st place vote (!). His 10th place finish last year seems more 'normal' in terms of voting, so a legit one, but still only 10th.

So, who else has something comparable to 1, 2, 3? Maybe Doug Wilson (who is now in the Hall)? Wilson's Norris finishes were: 1, 3, 4, 4, 12

Also, both Wilson and Burns are 3 X All-Stars and both never won the Cup.

Both had impressive hair / beard, too:

 

[jigglysquishy]

He's currently 14th all-time in defenseman scoring.

Gary Suter is the only one in the top 20 in defenseman scoring to not be in the HHOF.

If he plays until the end of 2024-25, he'll overtake Orr for 11th in all-time scoring.

He has the Norris, he'll have the point totals, and he is absolutely loved within the hockey community. Seems like a pretty easy induction.

 

[Chet Donnelly]

Not sure. But it's bizzare that Burns played under pre-Lock Out Jacques Lemaire and that he was a teammate of Alexandre Daigle.

He was also teammates with Sergei Zholtok, who died before Connor Bedard was even born.

 

[WingsFan95]

Norris finishes: 1, 2, 3, 8, 10, 12, 22.

As russianshark said, feels like he reached stardom too late, and then didn't maintain it for long enough.

But I'm interested in who else has comparable Norris finishes and isn't in the hall of fame. PK Subban has similar norris finishes, in his case he reached stardom early and declined much faster. Who else?

Doug Wilson was mentioned already but you have to understand how many didn't even win 1 because of Orr then Bourque/Chelios/Coffey/Lidstrom.

Harry Howell however is a good metric as a 1-time Norris winner with 0 Cups and not eye popping stats he had a 5th and 9th place finish. A career -152 over 21 seasons. He did appear in 7 All-Star games and played the most games as a defenseman for his time, was ranked as the 10th best Ranger however it seems odd and I think he was just very well established in the league moving onto management roles, 1st ballot as well.

But look at Kevin Lowe who everybody and their grandfather knows is in there on Cups alone.

He's currently 14th all-time in defenseman scoring.

Gary Suter is the only one in the top 20 in defenseman scoring to not be in the HHOF.

If he plays until the end of 2024-25, he'll overtake Orr for 11th in all-time scoring.

He has the Norris, he'll have the point totals, and he is absolutely loved within the hockey community. Seems like a pretty easy induction.

This.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

No for me.

I feel like the 2010s is going to produce an abnormal amount of "trophy winners" that dont make the HOF

Burns, Giordano, Subban for Norris
Holtby and Ullmark for Vezina
Perry and Hall for Hart
Benn for the Ross

 

[BraveCanadian]

He'll get in just because of his beard and numbers but he's another kind of borderline guy for me.

 

[seventieslord]

Classic example of a guy who I was never a big believer in, but who eventually won me over.

I mean just on the basis of career GP and pts, he's in rare territory already. Even if he was a 'pure one dimensional point scoring defenseman', a glorified Barrie or Krug, for doing it for this long he would already have people in his corner suggesting he's a HHOFer.

Even if you don't agree that his Norris record should be as strong as it is, that's his Norris record and I don't think anyone who finished 1-2-3, regardless of the rest of their career, would be left out.

He's played the minutes of a top-pairing defenseman for generally strong teams for a very long time. He was the top defenseman on a very strong Stanley Cup finalist team that was super dominant through three rounds.

Would you bet against him being a rare 1000 point defenseman? I wouldn't. Would you bet against him being the all-time ironman? I wouldn't. He's already 8th on the list and it would just take completing his age 39, 40 and 41 seasons to get there.

Hard not to root for the guy after this long. He's a machine. A warrior.

 

[Terry Yake]

Not sure. But it's bizzare that Burns played under pre-Lock Out Jacques Lemaire and that he was a teammate of Alexandre Daigle.

what's more bizarre is that daigle played a season in the "new NHL"

No for me.

I feel like the 2010s is going to produce an abnormal amount of "trophy winners" that dont make the HOF

Burns, Giordano, Subban for Norris
Holtby and Ullmark for Vezina
Perry and Hall for Hart
Benn for the Ross

perry is a lock for the HOF. guy has won every major team award there is to win in NA junior/pro hockey and has a hart on top of all that to boot

 

[sr edler]

Whether he gets into the HHOF or not, I'll just say, it's not something I care about. But also,
who the hell cares about Norris finishes like this, it's not a particularly good measurement stick. Dougie Hamilton had higher Norris finishes than Slavin in Carolina when no one (not the coach, not the local fans, not the management group) valued him higher. McCabe had higher Norris finishes in Toronto than Kaberle, but couldn't even crack the HV71 lockout roster, he (McCabe) also had a higher Norris peak than Zubov. Okay. There are tons of these examples, like tons.

This will perhaps sound a bit harsh, but Burns IMO while decent enough (clearly better than McCabe, also better than Hamilton) is still a fairly historically insignificant player.

As said up thread, he'll probably be mostly remembered as one half of the homeless-looking surfer duo from some pretty-good-but-not-really-good-enough Bay Area teams. Honestly I'll probably remember Couture and Pavelski more fondly from those teams, Burns coming in tied at 3rd with Thornton.

 

[MadLuke]

Bit of strange spot, maybe because the peak happen so late, because of that he miss 2010-2014 team Canada completely....

He has I would imagine a lot of going on for him, the high level forward and defense combo make him a bit particular, we can imagine well beloved around.

In a way he has giant longevity, playing 22 minutes a night on a super good team during his 38 years old seasons for someone that entered the league as 18 year old, first marginal norris vote at 22 last at 37.

In an other way, what 5 years has a big stars for a d ? Not spectacular in that sense.

Draft class could make it complicated.
2003 draft class is loaded, make comparison though and lot of people retiring, Weber, Suter, Staal, bergeron, Getzlaf, Perry, Pavelski, Burns, Fleury, some will not make it)

For a while there was around 2.5 nhler going in for their hockey career, now seem back to 4, if it stay 3.5 a year with no more ex-non nhler getting in or not in because of old WHA type feud, who knows the bar will not be very high, look at each draft class how many has 4 or more worthy HOF... they can end up going deep.

 

[wetcoast]

He's currently 14th all-time in defenseman scoring.

Gary Suter is the only one in the top 20 in defenseman scoring to not be in the HHOF.

If he plays until the end of 2024-25, he'll overtake Orr for 11th in all-time scoring.

He has the Norris, he'll have the point totals, and he is absolutely loved within the hockey community. Seems like a pretty easy induction.

Part of me agrees with this but the other part says the year he is up for induction there will probably be 5 or 6 better choices or more.

A deep playoff run this year sure wouldn't hurt his case.

 

[seventieslord]

Part of me agrees with this but the other part says the year he is up for induction there will probably be 5 or 6 better choices or more.

A deep playoff run this year sure wouldn't hurt his case.

The way he's going, it's not 2003 draftees he's going to be up against. It's going to be 2004, 05 and 06. And yeah, in theory he could find himself up against ovechkin, Malkin and Toews. But in the long run I don't think he's going to have much trouble getting in.

 

[MadLuke]

2003 draftees he's going to be up against.

They will not necessarily be all first year of eligibility type, those who end up in, like you say he himself will probably wait a bit.

 

[wetcoast]

The way he's going, it's not 2003 draftees he's going to be up against. It's going to be 2004, 05 and 06. And yeah, in theory he could find himself up against ovechkin, Malkin and Toews. But in the long run I don't think he's going to have much trouble getting in.

Perhaps and I didn't look at it but there might be a bit of a backlog by then as well.

Mind you I just took a quick 5 minute look at the drafts before and after a couple of years and that certainly helps his case.

But like I said it's more of a first reaction gut feeling this when asked :Is Brent burns a HHOFer?"

I also wonder if he and Ryan Suter retire the same year how the committee would feel?

Maybe add in Letang? Although injuries have really hurt his case.

 

[Crosby2010]

He finished 10th in Norris voting as recently as last year. Had a deep playoff run as recently as last year as the team's #1 defenseman. He is a hard guy not to root for, I'll admit that. And I can't eat a KitKat bar without thinking about that big chomp he did in the commercial. Okay, but this isn't why he can get inducted. Truth be told he might be the Conn Smythe winner if the Sharks win in 2016. I honestly don't know what took him so long to be good. He always seemed like he had the tools.

The major problem I have with him is defense. I know Phil Housley is in, but is there another defenseman in there that makes like a pylon defensively as much as Burns? That bothers me a bit with him. Maybe I am being harsh on him, who knows.

I will say this about him, offensively and carrying the puck he was great. Keeping the puck in he is stellar. And I don't think I have ever seen a defenseman as good as getting a quick and accurate shot on the net through a screen in NHL history. I'm not kidding.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

He's currently 14th all-time in defenseman scoring.

Gary Suter is the only one in the top 20 in defenseman scoring to not be in the HHOF.

If he plays until the end of 2024-25, he'll overtake Orr for 11th in all-time scoring.

He has the Norris, he'll have the point totals, and he is absolutely loved within the hockey community. Seems like a pretty easy induction.

He also played forward for some of his career though. And arguably still did at times after being moved back to D on paper.

 

[seventieslord]

He also played forward for some of his career though. And arguably still did at times after being moved back to D on paper.

But the thing is, he never scored any more at forward than he later would as a defenseman. The two years where he averaged about 16 minutes a game were the two that he primarily played forward, and he had 0.69 PPG. He scored significantly more than that as a defenseman throughout his 30s.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

But the thing is, he never scored any more at forward than he later would as a defenseman. The two years where he averaged about 16 minutes a game were the two that he primarily played forward, and he had 0.69 PPG. He scored significantly more than that as a defenseman throughout his 30s.

yeah burns is tough that way

one the one hand, my gut says you can’t take his career stats at face value because some of those years were at wing

otoh, as you say, he later outscored those years handily on D

but i still don’t think they should count if you’re looking at where burns is on an all time ranked career pts by a dman list, anymore than kelly’s leafs years get added on to his career totals.

 

[JackSlater]

Not really hockey history but yeah he'll get in. There is no definitive checklist the committee is looking for, but Burns has at least some hardware and he'll end up with an impressive point total. He also has the novelty of playing forward in the NHL for extended periods and his beard/persona, which adds to the fame element. Seems like a well liked player as well. He probably won't get in the first time he is eligible but he'll get in.

 

[ozzie]

I don't get this forum sometimes, considering Burns for HHOF but yet we are so hard collectively on goalies, people are split on Fluery? makes no sense.

How many points did he put up as a winger overall?

I'm not sold on him being in the HHOF, but wouldn't argue it I guess? I wouldn't lose sleep either way.