Sportsnet: Do We Have a #1 Goalie? All Purpose Goalie Talk

[cookie]

Reimer wasn't thrown into positions to fail...if he's expected to be the team's #1 goalie, he should be able to handle harder oppositions.
Or should we play our backup when we're facing the hard teams and let our starter deal with the "easy" teams?

Also, your rebound statement confuses me. So as a weak faceoff team, we should ALLOW more rebounds so we dont have to take faceoffs? I dont think I've ever seen anyone actaully WANT to give rebounds in order to not take a faceoff. Oh, and if you do want to go into specifics, where's the stat for team fatigue level? Whenever a rebound occurs, plays continue playing (whether offensively or defensively) thus increasing fatigue. Likewise, a barrage of shots where the opponents momentum is high should be countered with allow them more chances instead of stopping that momentum? The less rebounds = the more rest players get, allowing for them to perform at their highest capabilities.

Re: rebounds comment

Generally speaking you want the puck a lot less in your zone but you also want the least tired players on the ice for your team. With the Leafs, a loss of puck possession in the defensive zone spelled trouble more often than not as we just couldn't exit the zone.

A goalie can control the play and one tactic would be through his rebounds. Directing those rebounds to open wingers for an easy out, particularly with how fast our wingers are, can be more beneficial than directing them out of bounds or holding onto the puck for a defensive zone face off. Say for example there's an odd-man rush but a weak shot as a result of it. Should the goalie hold onto the rebound or direct it to the open winger for a chance in the other direction? Does the scoreboard affect your decision? It's kind of like that saying "a chance in one end leads to a chance in the other end."

Thankfully, this is a kind of game sense a goalie can acquire via experience. With Bernier's abilities, he can be even better.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

some people think that Bernier got the easier starts vs. Reimer getting harder starts so when Bernier 'stole the net' it was beecause he was in a position to fail. Ignoring the fact that if Reimer truly was the number one - technically he would be getting those starts anyway because that's what starters do: get the harder starts.

I don't think it's that he was set up to fail by giving him difficult starts - it's not like the management was out to make him look bad. The fact is, he started the first ~2 months of the season off with a .950 save percentage (perhaps even playing against harder competition) but was given less than half the starts. Later, when he was playing poorly, he kept getting thrown back in there - again, it wasn't intentional, it was out of necessity because of Bernier's injury.

But the bottom line is, if you're not played as much as you deserve when you're playing well, and more than you deserve when you're not, of course your overall numbers are going to suffer from it. This is even more the case for goaltenders, where so much of it is mental and relates to confidence.

 

[Cor]

Did t we go through the whole "Reimer got harder starts" last season, and it proved to be nothing. Bernier and Reimer faced similar competition.

 

[crump]

Is there such a thing as Corsi-Fenwick for Goalies? I mean a backup will usually play against lower quality of competition, their style ( butterfly/hybrid/ye old stand up) might give up more or less rebounds, their defensemen's ability to adjust to their style so they know when/where a rebound is going to happen could cause more or less rebound shots, does the scary picture on their mask distract the shooter and save more goals than another mask?

 

[Gramsci]

It's funny how some of these nerd wannabees will utilize statistics to fashion -- and that is what it is -- a point.

Last December, the same guy posted a rather elaborate article to make the point that Reimer was, statistically-speaking, the best option for Team Canada in Sochi, concluding: “Since the lockout Reimer has the best save percentage among the contenders and also the only above-average mark in every individual category of the shot quality project.†http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/price-reimer-holtby-lead-sochi-goalie-race/

Now, he's second fiddle to a guy who the author did not even consider a contender for Team Canada just 9 months ago. How can this be? It's called cherry picking. As he says, “I ran into these sample-size issues with James Reimer when I wrote last season about Olympic goaltender contenders last December. My self appointed window focused on performance heading into the Sochi, a window of about 60 games. The time frame highlighted the best hockey of Reimer’s pro career and an assessment, about 30 percent of his career total, leading to a favourable assessment.â€

Except, that’s not exactly true. He also said in that article: “James Reimer has had three seasons of .920-plus save percentage performances. In his one playoff appearance he put up a .924 save percentage, yet this data is nullified by a nine-minute stretch last spring that ended in an historic loss for the Maple Leafs.â€

Funny thing is … Reimer had never posted three.920-plus save percentage seasons. The author completely overlooked his.900 performance for the 2011-12 season. Now that he wants to make the case that Bernier is a significant upgrade over Reimer, that season’s data figure in.

It’s a judgement call how you select data for statistical presentation. Why go from 60 game comparison to entire career numbers? Virtually all of Reimer’s pre-2013/14 numbers are as a starter, whereas all of Bernier’s numbers from that period are as a backup. Not a great frame for comparison.

So, like when he made the case for Reimer being the best option for Sochi, he’s relying on 55 games from Bernier as a starter to claim he’s a significant upgrade. Old habits die hard, I guess.

 

[TLeafsFan]

Leafs Goalie Discussion

Is Beriner REALLY the better starter?

Let's compare sample sizes.

As of today:

2012/13 season Reimer - 33 GPI SV% .924 Leafs = playoffs

2014/15 season Bernier - 31 GPI SV% .917 Leafs = no playoffs

Who's the better starter?

 

[Ratboy]

lol, no more, please.

There's already a goalie discussion thread, it just hasn't been active because we already know who the better goalie is.

 

[Al14]

Not this again!

 

[Raging Bull]

"As of today" = posts stats from 2 seasons ago.

 

[jmart21]

Is Beriner REALLY the better starter?

Let's compare sample sizes.

As of today:

2012/13 season Reimer - 33 GPI SV% .924 Leafs = playoffs

2014/15 season Bernier - 31 GPI SV% .917 Leafs = no playoffs

Who's the better starter?

I love how you cherry pick stats from 3 years ago and preceed them by using "as of today"

 

[613Leafer]

What kind of crap is this? Youre isolating Reimers best season against Berniers current season?

Career save %: 0.918 vs .913 (favours Bernier)
Lowest save % with the Leafs: .917 vs .900 (favours Bernier)
Save % this season: .917 vs .902 (favours Bernier)
Overall record the past two seasons while playing behind the same team: 42-30-13 vs 18-23-1 (favours Bernier)

 

[Banic]

Jonathan Cheechoo had a 50 goal season therefore he's better than Kessel and we should take him!

Gotta look at context, this thread is a joke.

 

[TLeafsFan]

What kind of crap is this? Youre isolating Reimers best season against Berniers current season?

Career save %: 0.918 vs .913 (favours Bernier)
Lowest save % with the Leafs: .917 vs .900 (favours Bernier)
Save % this season: .917 vs .902 (favours Bernier)
Overall record the past two seasons while playing behind the same team: 42-30-13 vs 18-23-1 (favours Bernier)

Yes but only because Bernier was played as the starter and Reimer the backup.

Think about it.

Reimer had the backup workload in his past two seasons.

HIS STARTER WORKLOAD numbers are better than Bernier's.

 

[TLeafsFan]

As of today:

2012/13 season Reimer - 33 GPI SV% .924 Leafs = playoffs

2014/15 season Bernier - 31 GPI SV% .917 Leafs = no playoffs

Who's the better starter when faced with the SAME workload?

 

[FerrisRox]

last preseason Reimer outplayed Bernier

James Reimer got the Leafs to their first post season in almost, too long to remember
and he also got them to Game 7

Then what happened?

 

[TLeafsFan]

Then what happened?

Carlyle put out non-offensive players and Shelled up, instead of taking advantage of a depleted Boston D (down to 3) and Reimer got peppered and eventually the dam broke.

 

[egd27]

Then what happened?

The Leaf skaters, as a whole, either decided that it wasn't necessary, or were unable to, gain possession of the puck in their own end or keep the area in front to their net clear.

 

[FerrisRox]

Rask has yet to play 60 games as well.

Rask played 70 games for the Bruins last year including the playoffs.

 

[Paradoc]

Rask played 70 games for the Bruins last year including the playoffs.

I meant in the regular season.

 

[Paradoc]

As of today:

2012/13 season Reimer - 33 GPI SV% .924 Leafs = playoffs

2014/15 season Bernier - 31 GPI SV% .917 Leafs = no playoffs

Who's the better starter when faced with the SAME workload?

Funny how you dismissed his last season stats...

 

[Hero]

The areas where Bern is below average is just where the Leafs have had issues, clearing the crease.

 

[FerrisRox]

I meant in the regular season.

Either way, he's proven he can carry the load in 70 games.

 

[TLeafsFan]

Funny how you dismissed his last season stats...

Not the same workload, given that Reimer was forced out of the starter role by Nonis and Carlyle last season.

 

[Teeder9]

Funny how you dismissed his last season stats...

It's better to leave out the massive failures of a player if the idea is to give them a comparable chance. Maybe he should go back one more year and make the argument we should trade for Mike Smith since his .930 sv% was far better than Reimer's in 2012/13

 

[Bullseye]

With Bernier in net they usually lose by less goals. 2-0 like last night instead of a 4-0 Reimer night. Still losing too many games.