Do we give up on our Goalies too easily?

[marquee]

Its not called giving up when you have a superior goaltender. At the same age and have locked up for more years.

You really believe scrivens would want to be in the ahl st 27 y/o? The bernier aqquisition spelled his end here.

 

[cyris]

Its not called giving up when you have a superior goaltender. At the same age and have locked up for more years.

You really believe scrivens would want to be in the ahl st 27 y/o? The bernier aqquisition spelled his end here.

And at the time LA wanted a cheap back up for Quick as part of the return for Bernier. They didn't really know what they had in Jones yet.

Without that in return they may not have made the Bernier trade. You have to give to get.

 

[hoglund]

Because Bernier is a better goalie. You don't have to be a nuclear physicist to see that but cue all the BS armchair coaches and GM's on here.

I wasn't saying that either was the better goalie, I was saying starting BOTH goalies equal time like they did for the Oct, Nov and Dec was working, they were both winning and neither goalie was getting burned out despite getting 40 shots each game. Bernier is probably the better goalie, no argument here, but his latest injury proves my point that he's getting tired and more prone to injury because of playing too many games.

 

[FerrisRox]

Its not called giving up when you have a superior goaltender. At the same age and have locked up for more years.

You really believe scrivens would want to be in the ahl st 27 y/o? The bernier aqquisition spelled his end here.

Uh, yeah, no kidding. Scrivens was traded *for* Bernier.

 

[Northernguy10]

One game after a couple of terrible ones and he's still great? He doesn't have the fundamentals to be great. Of course these threads pop up after he has one good game. Lame.

... I think we're talking about approximately two years and not two periods...then 3/4 of a year being relegated to backup, a role he clearly isn't conditioned for. Hopefully he gets traded to a team where he gets a chance... As for Bernier he is being annointed as a #1 goalie after about 40 games or so and that's much too soon to make that assertion. Let's see how he handles the playoffs assuming we get there and how he handles being #1 next year and the year following when Reimer is presumably gone and he faces the intense pressure of being "the man" in a ruthless market with regards to the fans turning on their own. We won't know til Reimer's gone whether or not Bernier will be able to handle it...Hopefully he will.

 

[daveleaf]

I wasn't saying that either was the better goalie, I was saying starting BOTH goalies equal time like they did for the Oct, Nov and Dec was working, they were both winning and neither goalie was getting burned out despite getting 40 shots each game. Bernier is probably the better goalie, no argument here, but his latest injury proves my point that he's getting tired and more prone to injury because of playing too many games.

Rubbish. Bernier has proven he is the number one goalie. He is not tired, he got hurt not from being tired. You seem to forget they had two weeks off just a little while ago. Time and time again when Reimer was getting starts he has shown that he gives up to many rebounds at the wrong time. He is all over the crease. He gets the job done but Bernier calms the team down. Always in control and great with rebounds and deflecting that puck out of bounds when the team needs a break. Your argument makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[number72]

Sometimes we fans get it right when giving up on players. For example, Clarkson is a complete basketcase. For Reimer it appears some may have given up on him too soon.

 

[hoglund]

Sometimes we fans get it right when giving up on players. For example, Clarkson is a complete basketcase. For Reimer it appears some may have given up on him too soon.

Clarkson has been a disappointment, no question, I agree that some have given up on Reimer too soon, but Bernier is playing well and it shows that 2 good goalies are needed for this team to win, and if one gets hurt the team would struggle, so trading Reimer as some have suggested would be a mistake.

 

[hfman]

and the debate rages on.. the reimer lovers just won't let it be. but the decision was made long time ago... why won't they just let it go? Bernier is the #1.. it's no longer about who's better.. or who's worse.. or who makes better saves, or who has the better save % ... thats all in the past... Riemier is the #2 now. His supporters are hanging on in desperation but at least they'll all feel a sense of closure when the Leafs finally deal him and get this over with.

as stated many times, the reimer supporters will all be eating their words when he's traded to another team. he's the backup. his job was taken away from him by Bernier. Reimer will remain the backup (barring injury or other outside factors to Bernier) until management decides to move him.

the only way he's staying with this teams is if bernier is no longer able to play, or if Reimer accepts his role as the backup. Which would be very nice by the way - Bernier as the #1 for the long term, and a really good backup to go with it - all other teams could only dream of having that tandem

but i doubt reimer will be happy with that scenario. bottom line is, he's gone. just waiting for it now. it'll happen sometime during the summer. the better he plays, the better return the leafs will get for him. and the more $$$ he can earn. So it's a win-win for both parties - they both know this

 

[Jacquestrapless]

I think a better thread question is: "Does Toronto tend to eat their goalies alive, regurgitate them, only to eat them a second time?"

 

[BudMaster17]

Grant Fuhr > Peter Ing







/thread

 

[dubplatepressure]

I think a better thread question is: "Does Toronto tend to eat their goalies alive, regurgitate them, only to eat them a second time?"

Leaf fan hyperbole. Go figure.


Its a hard market to play in when you don't perform. When you do, you are a god. 2 sides to everything.

 

[Stephen]

When I look at Bernier, I get the sense that the Leafs have come full circle on the Rask mistake. Maybe Rask would have developed like the way he did in Toronto, or maybe he would have been burned out, who knows? But the point is we acquired a goalie who is just as athletic, just as positionally sound and technically excellent, competitive and backed up on a championship team in Bernier who can be just as good as Price or Rask in the Atlantic Division. My only nitpick on Bernier is he's not as big as either of those two.

The fact that Gustavsson, Reimer, Scrivens etc. could be good goalies elsewhere doesn't bother me. We might have an elite one on our hands for many years to come.

 

[ConnorTO]

Maybe Rask would have developed like the way he did in Toronto, or maybe he would have been burned out, who knows?

if Rask stayed that would of drastically changed the future...

 

[Christ]

Might as well go through all of our major goaltenders since the Rask deal...

The Rask deal sucked but that was due to a miscalculation in the skills of Pogge and an overvaluing of former Calder winner Raycroft.

Raycroft sucked and needed to go...I would have been happy to have seen him move sooner...a goalie who falls asleep sitting on the bench as a backup has no place in the NHL.

Toskala sucked to start, seemed to come around for the second half of his first season in TO and then commenced sucking again...I am happy we dumped him and again would have liked to see him go sooner.

Gustavsson "the monster" was just as often scary to the Leafs as he was to the opposition. On some nights he was a wall, on others he was a black hole that seemed to suck pucks into our net even when not shot directly at the net. While some fell in love with his potential, I feel he had to go.

Giguere was a stop-gap...once Reimer emerged we had no need of him.

Reimer has had an up and down career in TO. He came into the league on fire and almost got us into the playoffs in his first year. His second year with us started ok until he took a shot to the head from a Montreal player...he was not the same after during that season. People wanted to dump him in favour of Gustavsson who played decent. Thankfully we kept Reimer who was excellent last season and has played well this season despite being usurped from the number 1 role by Bernier.

Scrivens had a good rookie season as our backup and I would have been happy to keep him. That said he was traded for Bernier who I would consider an upgrade at this point.

I guess one could argue that Rask was given up on too early but apart from that I see no goaltender who the Leafs gave up on who I think we would have been better off keeping.

 

[cup67]

riemer is not our goalie, get him out of here. team plays scared in front of him.

 

[highslot]

Might as well go through all of our major goaltenders since the Rask deal...

The Rask deal sucked but that was due to a miscalculation in the skills of Pogge and an overvaluing of former Calder winner Raycroft.

Raycroft sucked and needed to go...I would have been happy to have seen him move sooner...a goalie who falls asleep sitting on the bench as a backup has no place in the NHL.

Toskala sucked to start, seemed to come around for the second half of his first season in TO and then commenced sucking again...I am happy we dumped him and again would have liked to see him go sooner.

Gustavsson "the monster" was just as often scary to the Leafs as he was to the opposition. On some nights he was a wall, on others he was a black hole that seemed to suck pucks into our net even when not shot directly at the net. While some fell in love with his potential, I feel he had to go.

Giguere was a stop-gap...once Reimer emerged we had no need of him.

Reimer has had an up and down career in TO. He came into the league on fire and almost got us into the playoffs in his first year. His second year with us started ok until he took a shot to the head from a Montreal player...he was not the same after during that season. People wanted to dump him in favour of Gustavsson who played decent. Thankfully we kept Reimer who was excellent last season and has played well this season despite being usurped from the number 1 role by Bernier.

Scrivens had a good rookie season as our backup and I would have been happy to keep him. That said he was traded for Bernier who I would consider an upgrade at this point.

I guess one could argue that Rask was given up on too early but apart from that I see no goaltender who the Leafs gave up on who I think we would have been better off keeping.

while it's overall a good summary, i think we gave up on gustavsson too quickly, he probably needed another year or so. toskala needed to go, but i seem to remember he was hiding a recurring injury. i actually like him.

i have no idea why we didn't resign giguere who was solid (and look at col), and gerber, who filled in nicely at the end of a season.

for prospects, i think we gave up rynnas too quickly. he had some awful games but some amazing streaks. he just needed consistency

 

[marquee]

How has rynass been in finland this year?

 

[Ari91]

while it's overall a good summary, i think we gave up on gustavsson too quickly, he probably needed another year or so. toskala needed to go, but i seem to remember he was hiding a recurring injury. i actually like him.

i have no idea why we didn't resign giguere who was solid (and look at col), and gerber, who filled in nicely at the end of a season.

for prospects, i think we gave up rynnas too quickly. he had some awful games but some amazing streaks. he just needed consistency

We ruined Gus first, then we gave up on him. I'm convinced that a lot of his struggles in Toronto had to do with a goalie coach that was a terrible fit for him. Gus always played his best in net when he was doing everything that was anti-Allaire.

Giggy didn't have a good season with us. He bounced back really well in Colorado because he finally got surgery to address a recurring ailment he had in his season with Toronto. He was a risk either way so I'm okay with them not bringing him back but I also realize that had they brought him back, their risk would have been rewarded with a rejuvenated Giggy.

 

[RASHBEEP]

We ruined Gus first, then we gave up on him. I'm convinced that a lot of his struggles in Toronto had to do with a goalie coach that was a terrible fit for him. Gus always played his best in net when he was doing everything that was anti-Allaire.

Ironically, I think Reimer played his best when he was doing everything pro-Allaire.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Reimer being point in case.

He has spent a long time on the bench and needs time to get his groove.He played very well in last years playoffs and you want to just cast him adrift, repeating the same mistake over and over. Bernier has worn down and we couldn't have a better insurance policy in Reimer, we have nothing else and there is nothing better at the price out there.