Do the Leafs overcome their first round demons next year?

[Varan]

So if it's not underachieving to lose 3 years in a row to Washington/Boston, and it's not underachieving to lose to a mid tier team like Columbus, what is underachieving? They can't play Detroit or Ottawa in the playoffs, so it's not like there's a scenario where they'd play a bottom 5 team and lose.

Maybe they just weren't as good as people make them out to be this past season. They were on pace for 95 points (the same amount the year AM was drafted except with all this matured talent), just after back to back 100+ seasons, in arguably the worst division in the NHL.

If that's the case, is that really underachieving? Hype goes a long way.

 

[The Podium]

So then the Leafs just aren't that good? Can't be contenders if you're not good enough to line up in a series 4 years in a row and not expect to win.

My whole argument is that they are not a contender yet and therefore losing to contenders is not underachieving...

Well, you're not going to ever get a much easier match up than the 9th team in the East. In most years Columbus would not even have made the playoffs.

Nope, but this wasn’t underachieving in the playoffs rather underachieved this year overall. They obviously had a mess of a season, mid year coaching change and a ton of injuries. I’ll chalk this one up to a blip in what should have been a much better season.

So they're not a contender, then. Because contenders can beat other contenders. If it's pretty much a guaranteed loss if the Leafs aren't playing someone well below them in the standings, then that speaks volumes about that team's status as a true contender.



The only reason the Leafs and Columbus had almost identical records is BECAUSE the Leafs underachieved. You can't honestly tell me that going into last season that ANYONE would have predicted the Leafs and Blue Jackets would have the same point total. Leaf fans would have been screaming "LEAF HATER" if anyone dared predict that result.

It also sounds like you want it both ways. Your first 90% of your post was defending them for losing because they had to play a good team, but this last paragraph has you defending them losing to a (no offense to Columbus) an average team.

So if it's not underachieving to lose 3 years in a row to Washington/Boston, and it's not underachieving to lose to a mid tier team like Columbus, what is underachieving? They can't play Detroit or Ottawa in the playoffs, so it's not like there's a scenario where they'd play a bottom 5 team and lose.

My whole argument is that they aren’t contenders. You are the one who said otherwise.

I also admitted in that post that the Leafs underachieved this season overall so I don’t get why you’re bringing it up as some sort of argument in your favour?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

My whole argument is that they aren’t contenders. You are the one who said otherwise.

I also admitted in that post that the Leafs underachieved this season overall so I don’t get why you’re bringing it up as some sort of argument in your favour?

But that's just your opinion. It's not the widely shared opinion of most Leaf fans (who post regularly on the mains) and other fans who consistently list the Leafs as one of the more talented teams who should be contending for Cups with their talent levels.

If the widespread belief is the Leafs are good enough (on paper) to contend, and someone says they've underachieved because they keep flaming out, you then can't call it a disingenuous statement just because your minority opinion is they're not a contender.

Again, if *you* don't think they're a contender and thus, don't think losing 4 years in the row in the first round is underachieving, that's fine. But the comment you originally quoted wasn't directed at that opinion, it was addressed toward this larger belief on here, and in the media, that the Leafs are one of the teams capable of contending.

I do have a question for you -- why don't you believe they're a contender? Their top six is one of the best in the league, their defense might have some question marks defensively, but is probably top 10 in the league at transition/offense, and while he seems to be a scapegoat every time they lose, Andersen's a legitimate top 10 (maybe even top 5) goalie. How is that not a team that "on paper" should be a contender?

 

[Fatass]

Yes the Leafs will win some playoff rounds in 2021. The divisions will play rounds one and two to decide their winner. Those four teams will play the Conference Finals. The Leafs will win the Canadian Division, but lose in the Conference Finals.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

1. You weren't #1 or #2 in GA, so you're not better than Columbus at defence.
2. The Leafs weren't stopped defensively, they pounded many SOG, only to be stopped.
I don't think your 33yr old can do that-because he hasn't against us in the past.

26-15-4 record against the Leafs over his whole career.

3-0-0 last season.

 

[Skolman]

Yes the Leafs will win some playoff rounds in 2021. The divisions will play rounds one and two to decide their winner. Those four teams will play the Conference Finals. The Leafs will win the Canadian Division, but lose in the Conference Finals.

Idk, I think we will see a lot of this.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Idk, I think we will see a lot of this.

A goal of year candidate a lot??

 

[CupsOverCash]

I'll say no. Only because they can't seem to get by the first round. They are talented enough though need to come together as a team and play some playoff hockey.

 

[LEAFSANDBILLSFAN]

I'll say no. Only because they can't seem to get by the first round. They are talented enough though need to come together as a team and play some playoff hockey.

You really think the 2020 versions of Edmonton, Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, Winnipeg, and Ottawa are on the same level as 2017 Washington and 2018/2019 Boston? As a Tampa fan I do not need to tell you about Columbus. As posted earlier I think Montreal is the most frightening and I still wouldn't put them in any of those teams area code.

 

[ffh]

no.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Could see them taking the next step and making the playoffs.

 

[Oddbob]

I think yes, but what will it mean, as this year they will be facing a team that they wouldn't face in the 1st round, as Boston or Tampa Bay would normally and likely be their opponent.

 

[34]

Who knows really. It comes down to Goaltending for the Leafs. If they get decent goaltending, there is a chance. If they get the goaltending they are used to...Then the answer is no, they won’t do anything.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Who knows really. It comes down to Goaltending for the Leafs. If they get decent goaltending, there is a chance. If they get the goaltending they are used to...Then the answer is no, they won’t do anything.

I remember a time long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away when Andersen or even Bernier (yes, the Mandela Bernier) were proclaimed by a majority of Leafs fans to be top 5 goaltenders...

That's when you realised that "Fan" derives from "Fanaticism".

 

[34]

I remember a time long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away when Andersen or even Bernier (yes, the Mandela Bernier) were proclaimed by a majority of Leafs fans to be top 5 goaltenders...

That's when you realised that "Fan" derives from "Fanaticism".

Top 5? Not by my standards. I will take some heat from Leaf fans for saying Andersen is a back up...but that is my opinion. Not a fan at all.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Most likely miss the playoffs.

The good old reverse jinx. Nice...

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

I remember a time long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away when Andersen or even Bernier (yes, the Mandela Bernier) were proclaimed by a majority of Leafs fans to be top 5 goaltenders...

That's when you realised that "Fan" derives from "Fanaticism".

I don't think this is accurate at all. I believe non-Leaf fans know seem much higher on Andersen than Leaf fans. According to non Leaf fans, Andersen "Carries" the Leafs and his mediocre numbers are alll due to Leafs D and not his fault.
The reality is that Andersen is rather "Hot and Cold" yearly and even at his best, he's not close to elite.
He also had the same numbers and same playoff struggle in Anaheim, so I'm not sure why he gets a pass on the Leafs because of "bad D".

 

[Garthinater]

I don't think this is accurate at all. I believe non-Leaf fans know seem much higher on Andersen than Leaf fans. According to non Leaf fans, Andersen "Carries" the Leafs and his mediocre numbers are alll due to Leafs D and not his fault.
The reality is that Andersen is rather "Hot and Cold" yearly and even at his best, he's not close to elite.
He also had the same numbers and same playoff struggle in Anaheim, so I'm not sure why he gets a pass on the Leafs because of "bad D".

Andersen is absolutely elite. He's a top 10 goalie over the last ~8 years for both regualar season and playoffs while facing the most shots of any goalie.

Andersen has had the misfortune of playing behind some leaf teams with very weak defense. Last year was a prime example of it.

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

Andersen is absolutely elite. He's a top 10 goalie over the last ~8 years for both regualar season and playoffs while facing the most shots of any goalie.

Andersen has had the misfortune of playing behind some leaf teams with very weak defense. Last year was a prime example of it.

There are no stats which prove this. He did not finish in the top 30 for save % last season. He is 0-8 in postseason deciding games. And before you blame that on Leafs D, he was 0-4 with Anaheim and was traded.

Explain the Anaheim years where he had the same numbers and same postseason struggles? I addressed this in my original post.

Saying it's all on Leafs D and calling him elite is rather lazy. No facts support this and he's now had the same issues on 2 teams. He's 31. He is what he is. When he's on, he can be elite for a portion of a season. He generally has 2-3 brutally long stretches where he struggles badly and is not strong in the postseason.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I don't think this is accurate at all. I believe non-Leaf fans know seem much higher on Andersen than Leaf fans. According to non Leaf fans, Andersen "Carries" the Leafs and his mediocre numbers are alll due to Leafs D and not his fault.
The reality is that Andersen is rather "Hot and Cold" yearly and even at his best, he's not close to elite.
He also had the same numbers and same playoff struggle in Anaheim, so I'm not sure why he gets a pass on the Leafs because of "bad D".

Just look at the archives...

 

[Steven Toast]

I see them knocking out Calgary in a Canadian division playoff round.

 

[AvroArrow]

I remember a time long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away when Andersen or even Bernier (yes, the Mandela Bernier) were proclaimed by a majority of Leafs fans to be top 5 goaltenders...

That's when you realised that "Fan" derives from "Fanaticism".

Na. Bernier was never called even a top 10 goaltender by majority of leafs fan. At best he was an average starter. Even Andersen lol. Leafs fans were the only ones calling him a choker and garbage in clutch time. It was the rest of HF trying to push the narrative that he's amazing and a top 3 goalie in an attempt to shit on the leafs D. Saying the D is so garbage, if Andersen wasn't playing like a vezina goalie they would have lost by 10, when in reality Andersen has been garbage when it's mattered most.

 

[34]

Andersen is absolutely elite. He's a top 10 goalie over the last ~8 years.

Hmmm. He has only been in T.O for 4 years and before that he was a back up his entire career.

He is a career back up IMO. Not a starting goalie in the NHL. He falls flat on his face every post season. He is the reason the Leafs have not had Success.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Hmmm. He has only been in T.O for 4 years and before that he was a back up his entire career.

He is a career back up IMO. Not a starting goalie in the NHL. He falls flat on his face every post season. He is the reason the Leafs have not had Success.

There have been a few players which were problems with the Leafs progressing.
Gardiner was one, Andersen is another-they're maybe more.

 

[34]

There have been a few players which were problems with the Leafs progressing.
Gardiner was one, Andersen is another-they're maybe more.

For sure. He is not the only anchor on the team.