Do rec-league goalies pay to play?

[DevsFan84]

Goalies don't pay for open hockey because (unlike the opinion expressed by a few people here) skaters in general would much rather play hockey with goalies. In fact, I would say they are more likely to show up when they know there will be a goalie there.

This is why the rinks let us play for free. And they like goalies like me who play 4-5 times a week because skaters know there will always be at least one goalie there, and will show up and pay for the session.

This is also not taking into account the amount of money our equipment costs to purchase and maintain (I don't think this is a factor with rinks in regards to paying for open hockey, to be honest)

If I had to pay, I would still play- just a lot less than I do now. There just aren't that many goalies around here, and most sessions would see 1 goaler at best if we had to pay full price. In turn, less skaters would show up since almost all of them want to play with goalies.

My guess is that you guys who don't care if goalies show up to open hockey probably play in at least one league where you can get an actual game going every time you show up. A lot of guys who play open hockey can't join a league, and therefore appreciate the fact that goalies are there because they can play a real game of hockey.

This is all gravy, though. The bottom line is that rinks make more money from paying skaters when goalies show up.

 

[CanadaBacon]

For the most part, I agree with the post, however, if the league fee is a set $3,500.00 and you have 14 players (3 F-lines, 2 sets of D and a goalie) forcing the skaters to pony up the additional $$ should not be the guy running the teams choice. It should be a choice made by the whole team.

In trhe end it's only $20.00 extra per player (of which I would elect to cover if asked) but to say it's one person's decision is incorrect when that decision will financially affect the rest of the team.

It should be a majority rules decision and those that do no like it are free to find other teams.

I played for 3 years (Summer/Fall/Winter) sessions and the goalies always payed their full share of the league fee.

Also in my younger days, playing roller hockey, I ran a team and the first year we were a throw together team. We got along and decided to join as a team the following season. Everyone payed a full share. Following the season the goalie came to me and stated that he would not play for us if he had to pay the full amount. This is after 2 years of paying the full amount.

I told him to take a hike. Now, I probably handled that wrong in that I didn't even think to ask the team how they felt, but I (at that time) felt offended that here's a guy demanding to play for free when the rest of us (who work just as had for their money) were all paying full amount. I should have asked the team what they wanted to do and then walked if they all wanted to cover the goalie. This way there wouldn't have been any un-easiness due to my attitude.

Unless goalies are hard to come by, i think you did the right thing, i dont see how your team could complain about that.

Once again if goalies are hard to come by in your specific area, sure 50% seems fair enough. But if goalies are not in demand, why should the pay less? There really is no reason why.

 

[Hounsy]

Dont see anyone here saying goalies should pay for shinny.

Post #37

 

[CanadaBacon]

Goalies don't pay for open hockey because (unlike the opinion expressed by a few people here) skaters in general would much rather play hockey with goalies. In fact, I would say they are more likely to show up when they know there will be a goalie there.

This is why the rinks let us play for free. And they like goalies like me who play 4-5 times a week because skaters know there will always be at least one goalie there, and will show up and pay for the session.

This is also not taking into account the amount of money our equipment costs to purchase and maintain (I don't think this is a factor with rinks in regards to paying for open hockey, to be honest)

If I had to pay, I would still play- just a lot less than I do now. There just aren't that many goalies around here, and most sessions would see 1 goaler at best if we had to pay full price. In turn, less skaters would show up since almost all of them want to play with goalies.

My guess is that you guys who don't care if goalies show up to open hockey probably play in at least one league where you can get an actual game going every time you show up. A lot of guys who play open hockey can't join a league, and therefore appreciate the fact that goalies are there because they can play a real game of hockey.

This is all gravy, though. The bottom line is that rinks make more money from paying skaters when goalies show up.

Most shinny you will have no idea if a goalie is there until you dress. I personally have played A LOT more shinny without goalies then with. Playing a season of shinny will cost you the same (if not more) then playing in a league. Also keep in mind diffrent shinny times attract different players. Shinny that is made up of 16-20 year olds is a lot different then shinny with 25-30.

No one is saying goalies should pay for shinny anyway.

The eq price point is still bogus for the vast majority of goalies out there.

 

[CanadaBacon]

Post #37

Read that post again

 

[Stubbs88]

Unless goalies are hard to come by, i think you did the right thing, i dont see how your team could complain about that.

Once again if goalies are hard to come by in your specific area, sure 50% seems fair enough. But if goalies are not in demand, why should the pay less? There really is no reason why.

Exactly, if goalies are hard to come by then you have to give them some sort of incentive to play.

If not, and there's always a guy around to step in and play nets then they should pay to play like everyone else.

 

[Hounsy]

Read that post again

"We want a goalie for our pickup games that we rented the ice for .... absolutely BUT THEY PAY."

 

[CanadaBacon]

"We want a goalie for our pickup games that we rented the ice for .... absolutely BUT THEY PAY."

Shinny is about 5 bucks a head in my area, renting the ice is about 15-20 bucks a head (can get up to 30-40 depending on the time of day it is rented).

He is not talking about shinny he is talking about renting the ice. Big difference.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Dont see anyone here saying goalies should pay for shinny.

What if the guy running the team started charging forwards or defenders more or less? is that none of my business? What if the team has two goalies and one of them is paying and the other is not? is that none of my business?

Why exactly in your opinion should goalies pay less then other players?

Because whether you agree or disagree with goalies paying less in leagues, a precedence has been set, and I would consider what is done as standard practice. If a guy who ran a league started charging all different skaters different prices, I think it would piss plenty of people off on the team. Now, if you did it with just a goalie, Ive personally seen nor heard anyone ever complain, because its standard practice.

Heck, up in a league in East Lansing when I signed up through the rink just to be put on a random team, I paid less through them for the league than skaters paid, it was directly on the pamphlet.

A goalie on the team is a unique position, like I said, I have no problems someone saying up front, were charging you full price, its your obligation to do so. Its also my obligation to say no thank you, because I could go to another team who would charge me less if money was that important. I guess my final statement says it in the end, its kind of supply and demand I guess. If its a team of buddies who say hey we need you to pay full price yeah id probably have no problems with it.

But if its a team of strangers, I ask you, why would I pay full price if I can go to another team full of strangers and pay less?

 

[Hounsy]

Shinny is about 5 bucks a head in my area, renting the ice is about 15-20 bucks a head (can get up to 30-40 depending on the time of day it is rented).

He is not talking about shinny he is talking about renting the ice. Big difference.

Around here we call regular rental groups pick up and open ice shinny. that was the confusion for me as you where originally responding in post 72 that used both terms.

In Hamilton do Goalies pay for the rental groups?

 

[CanadaBacon]

Because whether you agree or disagree with goalies paying less in leagues, a precedence has been set, and I would consider what is done as standard practice. If a guy who ran a league started charging all different skaters different prices, I think it would piss plenty of people off on the team. Now, if you did it with just a goalie, Ive personally seen nor heard anyone ever complain, because its standard practice.

Heck, up in a league in East Lansing when I signed up through the rink just to be put on a random team, I paid less through them for the league than skaters paid, it was directly on the pamphlet.

A goalie on the team is a unique position, like I said, I have no problems someone saying up front, were charging you full price, its your obligation to do so. Its also my obligation to say no thank you, because I could go to another team who would charge me less if money was that important. I guess my final statement says it in the end, its kind of supply and demand I guess. If its a team of buddies who say hey we need you to pay full price yeah id probably have no problems with it.

But if its a team of strangers, I ask you, why would I pay full price if I can go to another team full of strangers and pay less?

Im not saying you shouldnt, hell, i would pay less if i could. Im saying that there is no reason for a goalie to pay less in a league if there is no demand for goalies. Why should they?

 

[CanadaBacon]

Around here we call regular rental groups pick up and open ice shinny. that was the confusion for me as you where originally responding in post 72 that used both terms.

In Hamilton do Goalies pay for the rental groups?

hmm...im confused now

I have lived all over SO and shinny is run by Parks and Rec/the Arena.
I have played on a few teams (mostly work) where we rented the ice and everyone squared up.
I have never actually seen a "stick and puck" (think thats what you call it). Im not saying they dont exist here, i just never seen a rink offer this.

Shinny/pick-up/drop-in here is where anybody can show up at the arena when the said time is and pay 5 bucks and play. You can have 5 guys or 40 guys.

Renting the ice you have to know the group that is renting it. In my experience renting the ice, goalies have always paid the same, unless we needed a goalie really, really bad. Most of the time if we cant find one or have one that refuses to pay/get beer/whatever we just drop the nets and play Bank or Ringer. Especially if we dont know this dude.

If my group is paying 250-500$ an hour for ice (obviously depending on time/day), damn right if a goalie wants to play he paying.

 

[Chootoi]

The last time I paid for hockey was in high school - nearly 10 years ago, and I play in a rec-league, spare in another and I play twice weekly for 2 different pick-up groups.

Goalies are pretty hard to come by in my area and I don't know of any that pay, honestly. In fact, alot of teams around here will pay the goalie 20 bucks or so, or give them free beer or something like that.

 

[Hounsy]

I only play with groups that have 10:00 and 11:00PM ice times and it is $185-$195 and hour at the rinks here. Goalies never have payed in any of the groups I regular or fill in for, but that said it's a challenge and major stress to the guy running the hour to keep the nets filled. Sounds like it's a supply and demand thing.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Goalies are pretty hard to come by in my area and I don't know of any that pay, honestly. In fact, alot of teams around here will pay the goalie 20 bucks or so, or give them free beer or something like that.

I can think of at least one organized skate in my area where the games were very offense-oriented (and minimal backchecking), and to keep good goaltenders interested, they would pay the winning goaltender $10.

(The goalies would switch ends every so often in this scenario)

But in the end, it's a question of supply and demand.

 

[CanadaBacon]

I can think of at least one organized skate in my area where the games were very offense-oriented (and minimal backchecking), and to keep good goaltenders interested, they would pay the winning goaltender $10.

(The goalies would switch ends every so often in this scenario)

But in the end, it's a question of supply and demand.

Im obviously not a goalie, but wouldnt that type of game interest goalies?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Im obviously not a goalie, but wouldnt that type of game interest goalies?

I always liked it - actually, I always refused the money (partially because by accepting the money, I was accepting that players weren't always going to hustle, and I wanted to ride some guys to get them to hustle more )

But I could see - and did see - a lot of other good goalies get discouraged by the perceived lack of effort, and they wouldn't come back. It made it easier to win the matches, but I preferred having the competition to push me.

The skate was eventually absorbed by another group (which still plays Wednesdays/Fridays at CU in Boulder) and the goalies don't get paid. The players hustle much more now, but you can still tell the differences between the absorbed group and the other one.

 

[Hounsy]

Im obviously not a goalie, but wouldnt that type of game interest goalies?

It's like getting picked for the NHL young star game, without being able to say it's just an honor to get picked. Quality shooters with time and passing options can be very frustrating and not like real Hockey at all.

 

[CanadaBacon]

It's like getting picked for the NHL young star game, without being able to say it's just an honor to get picked. Quality shooters with time and passing options can be very frustrating and not like real Hockey at all.

Well its not "real" hockey. I would imagine it being good practice for "real" hockey though.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Well its not "real" hockey. I would imagine it being good practice for "real" hockey though.

It does screw with our intuitions, though. There are places where it helps your game, but when I play in the skate I mentioned, I notice (for a few games after) that I'm more prone to hanging back in the net and not challenging the shooter.

I could see a goaltender choosing to eschew this sort of skate because of that reason. We *are* weird, remember.

 

[Hounsy]

Well its not "real" hockey. I would imagine it being good practice for "real" hockey though.

For me not really, it can make my game tentative if I play that way to often. Some guys could do it no doubt with out it screwing with their brain, but I'm not one of them.

 

[Hockeyfan68]

For the most part, I agree with the post, however, if the league fee is a set $3,500.00 and you have 14 players (3 F-lines, 2 sets of D and a goalie) forcing the skaters to pony up the additional $$ should not be the guy running the teams choice. It should be a choice made by the whole team.

In trhe end it's only $20.00 extra per player (of which I would elect to cover if asked) but to say it's one person's decision is incorrect when that decision will financially affect the rest of the team.

It should be a majority rules decision and those that do no like it are free to find other teams.

I played for 3 years (Summer/Fall/Winter) sessions and the goalies always payed their full share of the league fee.

Also in my younger days, playing roller hockey, I ran a team and the first year we were a throw together team. We got along and decided to join as a team the following season. Everyone payed a full share. Following the season the goalie came to me and stated that he would not play for us if he had to pay the full amount. This is after 2 years of paying the full amount.

I told him to take a hike. Now, I probably handled that wrong in that I didn't even think to ask the team how they felt, but I (at that time) felt offended that here's a guy demanding to play for free when the rest of us (who work just as had for their money) were all paying full amount. I should have asked the team what they wanted to do and then walked if they all wanted to cover the goalie. This way there wouldn't have been any un-easiness due to my attitude.

Our goalies we use pay like everyone else because it is FAIR. We do it for Rec league and pickup games.

Shinny hockey isn't up to me nor does it affect my wallet personally but it still peeves me a bit that they don't pay when everyone else playing does. It IS mooching and their being a goaltender should not dictate a free ride because you can't play without them ..... which is false anyway.

How much fun can a goalie have with no players besides himself out there? How muich fun can a skater have without a goalie? A lot more than a goalie out there by himself practicing butterfly drills by himself.

No goalie at shinny today ... we played 3 on 3 and hit posts, it was fun.

How are they even different? They shouldn't pay because their equipment costs more? .... unless the old joke really is true which is "What do you call a guy who hangs around with hockey players? .... a goalie."

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Our goalies we use pay like everyone else because it is FAIR. We do it for Rec league and pickup games.

Shinny hockey isn't up to me nor does it affect my wallet personally but it still peeves me a bit that they don't pay when everyone else playing does. It IS mooching and their being a goaltender should not dictate a free ride because you can't play without them ..... which is false anyway.
How much fun can a goalie have with no players besides himself out there? How muich fun can a skater have without a goalie? A lot more than a goalie out there by himself practicing butterfly drills by himself.

No goalie at shinny today ... we played 3 on 3 and hit posts, it was fun.

How are they even different? They shouldn't pay because their equipment costs more? .... unless the old joke really is true which is "What do you call a guy who hangs around with hockey players? .... a goalie."

Take it up with your local rink then is all I have to say. You come off as a little too bitter to me for some reason about this whole topic in general, and kind of whiney too. I'll throw ya a couple of bucks if I ever play shinny with you someday.

 

[Hounsy]

How are they even different?

I have one of my weekly rentals in an hour, I can't decide now I don't want to go and others do it all the time at an 11:00 pm ice time. We are different, it's the way it is. I never asked or suggested once I should not pay for my weekly rental groups it is just the way it is. The way it is does not make me a arrogant tool...just a bad but reliable goalie.

 

[Giroux tha Damaja]

Shinny hockey isn't up to me nor does it affect my wallet personally but it still peeves me a bit that they don't pay when everyone else playing does. It IS mooching and their being a goaltender should not dictate a free ride because you can't play without them ..... which is false anyway.

I was with you for most of what you say in this thread, but you lost me here. For someone who cites class and etiquette, why are you so worried about the next guy catching a break? How would it help you for the goalie to pay for shinny?

Now life isn't perfectly fair/equitable, and this is one of the few instances where that is working in someone's favor instead of screwing them. And it's not costing you a dime or screwing you over in any way to boot (it's coming out of the rink owner's pocket), you should get over it.