Do PIT fans underrate how good the Isles and Habs were the last two playoffs?

[Gurglesons]

Was listening to the PDOCast with Berkshire that just got posted. It is funny, the Habs are one of the best teams in the league this year. Obviously Anderson and Toffoli are big adds, but let's not pretend they didn't also lose talent in Domi.

Isles got swept by Carolina after beating us, but Lehner is largely viewed as one of the best goalies in the league after that series and the next year and Isles made it to the ECF the following year.

I often here how "embarrassing" those losses are, but in retrospect did we simply run into two teams that are on their way up while we are sort of middling or potentially on the downslide?

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[Sidney the Kidney]

Was listening to the PDOCast with Berkshire that just got posted. It is funny, the Habs are one of the best teams in the league this year. Obviously Anderson and Toffoli are big adds, but let's not pretend they didn't also lose talent in Domi.

Isles got swept by Carolina after beating us, but Lehner is largely viewed as one of the best goalies in the league after that series and the next year and Isles made it to the ECF the following year.

I often here how "embarrassing" those losses are, but in retrospect did we simply run into two teams that are on their way up while we are sort of middling or potentially on the downslide?

For me, it's less about the fact they lost to those two teams, but how the Pens largely looked in those series. The Isles series, in particular, was one of the worse playoff performances I've seen from this roster since maybe Boston swept us in 2013 when we scored like 1 goal all series.

 

[Hockeygod66]

No.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

It is difficult to defend the Penguins' performance in either series, but we certainly ran in to unfortunate matchups. Trotz likely knows the Penguins better than any coach not named Tocchet, had a giant chip on his shoulder after getting snubbed by the Caps after delivering their first Cup, and had a young, fast, DISCIPLINED team ready to go, armed with a terrific gameplan. Isles weren't cup ready, but they were plenty capable of ending our season. And last year a lethargic Penguins squad ran into Carey Price for a best-of-five on crappy ice. No surprise there. Not Sheary's fault for missing the penalty shot late in G1, either. I don't know how "good' either the Isles or Habs were in those series, but I do think they were bad matchups for our team.

 

[ronduguayshair]

Both teams have great structure and a lineup that buys in.

We’ve always had issues with teams like that. Ottawa almost beat us.

 

[Peat]

Maybe.

But like StK, I look at those series and the way the Pens played. Against Montreal, we played 2 and a half decent if frustrating games of hockey, then just as we'd finally taken control of the series, we just pissed it away and ended it looking desultory and lacking belief. I only watched one and a bit periods of NYI because after a will they won't they year where we finally looked like a team in March only to slacken when we got stars back from injury, to see them playing slack again was too much.

 

[EightyOne]

They made playoffs for a reason.. So.. Can't say they were underrated

But

They weren't so good the pens should have been eviscerated like they were

By every metric the Pens were better on paper

 

[Scandale du Jour]

They made playoffs for a reason.. So.. Can't say they were underrated

But

They weren't so good the pens should have been eviscerated like they were

By every metric the Pens were better on paper

Well, theoritically, the Habs were not even close to a playoff position and the only reason we ended up playing them is because of the pandemic. We have absolutely no excuse for that one.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

Nope.

 

[Tom Hanks]

After Game 2 of the Islanders series I said we couldn’t win a game. It was the most lifeless performance I’d ever seen from a Pens playoff team. It was like they’d just given up.

The Covid playoffs were a bit of a crapshoot for everyone so I won’t read as much into that one. We had some good play, Price was a wall and we drifted off in the end.

To not win a game says more about us than the opposition.

 

[xlm34]

We looked awful in both series, but I see your point for sure. We happened to catch both teams when they were on the upswing.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

42.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I think in general people overreact to playoff losses.

Didnt win turns into couldnt win. The randomness of a 7 game series combined with the fact that sometimes a team isnt playing to their 100% potential while another is and thats just something that happens.

 

[Pens x]

If either of these teams went on a run after beating us, maybe. But when the Habs and Isles’ records were 2-8 after beating us, I think that makes the Pens’ performance that much worse.

We were the better team on paper. These were mediocre teams at best. I can’t imagine we would have beat many playoff teams in either year. Hell, we couldn’t even beat the 24th best team.

Sully should have been left in Toronto.

 

[Fatty McLardy]

we just overrated how good the pens were...

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

No, the Pens were awful and MM refused to make a save.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Was listening to the PDOCast with Berkshire that just got posted. It is funny, the Habs are one of the best teams in the league this year. Obviously Anderson and Toffoli are big adds, but let's not pretend they didn't also lose talent in Domi.

Isles got swept by Carolina after beating us, but Lehner is largely viewed as one of the best goalies in the league after that series and the next year and Isles made it to the ECF the following year.

I often here how "embarrassing" those losses are, but in retrospect did we simply run into two teams that are on their way up while we are sort of middling or potentially on the downslide?

Montreal was an awful team last year. How do I know? They weren't even in the top 16 teams in the standings.
The problem is that the Pens can be easily beat by a trapping physical team. Teams like Boston and NYI always give them trouble.

 

[Al Smith]

I guess to the extent people still care, my answer would be “no”. The frightening part is how easily those two teams shut down the Pens and how the Pens were incapable of adjusting to the opposition structure.

 

[Turin]

Good teams are competitive. The Pens didn’t look competitive. In order to be a contender you have to beat really good teams, teams better than Montreal or the Islanders.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Since both teams could only combine for two playoff wins after easily bouncing the Pens, this thread doesn’t pass the sniff test...

 

[Andy99]

No. People underrate how playing defensively with structure wins in the POs and has nothing to do with how “successful” teams were in the RS

 

[SEALBound]

Lol, no. There's an ora of arrogance surrounding this fanbase. The automatic assumption that just because we have Sid and Geno, we are better than other teams. The only thing shocking anymore is the fact that people are shocked when we are beat by good teams.

It's not unlike how we currently evaluate players - most posters here evaluate players based on name recognition. No name recognition = bad player. Historically not great team = bad team regardless of actual performance. And then there's shock when they are good. Lol.

Both teams have great structure and a lineup that buys in.

We’ve always had issues with teams like that. Ottawa almost beat us.

Ottawa in 2017? Ottawa in 2017 was a good team. Go back and look at the roster. This was not the Ottawa team of 2018 to 2021. Anderson was also fantastic...seemingly out of nowhere.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

 

[Peat]

Montreal was an awful team last year. How do I know? They weren't even in the top 16 teams in the standings.
The problem is that the Pens can be easily beat by a trapping physical team. Teams like Boston and NYI always give them trouble.

Don't agree with this logic. If standings are the sole way of judging a team, then clearly we're a good team who's been unlucky and people need to stop their kvetching as nothing is wrong. Anyone agree with that?

And also, equally clearly, the 2019 Blues were an average team. Don't let anyone tell you different.

This also ignores that every year, a bunch of teams get better or worse depending on how 3-4 months off treats their players, particularly young players and old guys. And that those play-ins happened about an off-season after the season ended, so it wasn't a super reliable guide to the team we played anyway.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean I think there is at least a little bit of a point to be made, here. Both the Habs and Isles turned out better than I think most of us expected. Both on the upswing, unlike around here. I'm not buyin' but I can see the logic.

When they get utterly shitstomped or flat out don't make it this year I think it'll be cemented that this team is no longer one to be taken seriously, though.