Do not Draft lists

[CraigBillington]

This is something I always find interesting, find out what teams have what players on their do not draft list... like if I remember correctly, Ryan Merkley was on some teams’ no draft lists - can’t remember which ones though. I think Phil Kessel was on Columbus ‘ (?) for bombing an interview but could be wrong.

I’m sure there were lots of others in the past and maybe this year too

Who else has examples of this?

Click to read more...

 

[Brodeur]

According to Gare Joyce's book, Columbus would have taken Kessel, they just wouldn't have felt great about it. Off the top of my head, their assistant GM preferred Peter Mueller over Kessel but probably didn't have enough sway to overrule the rest of the table. The Do Not Draft for Columbus was David Fischer, and Joyce said he heard other teams also designated him the same.

Going back a ways, I think Jeff Friesen got DND'd by some clubs for character concerns during his draft year. Craig Button did a podcast a few years back and mentioned that him and a couple Dallas scouts met with Friesen late in the draft year just to try to figure out what they were hearing was true (Button said they felt comfortable with Friesen after meeting with him).

Jon Merrill was expected to go in the 20-30 range in the 2010 Draft, but fell to #38 to New Jersey. There were rumblings of some off the ice concerns and he'd end up being suspended for half of his sophomore year of college for unspecified reasons. Not sure if he was a DND for some clubs though.

Patrick O'Sullivan in 2003 was another unique, albeit sad story with him and the restraining order on his dad (plus other character concerns about O'Sullivan). Most thought he'd go around #20, but he slipped to the end of the 2nd round. I remember a story about Wayne Gretzky, at that point with the Coyotes, making a point to talk to O'Sullivan as his draft slide was happening; Gretzky tried to reassure him that the Coyotes would have drafted him if they had a pick (dealt the previous year for Daymond Langkow and Brad Ference).

 

[Ducati Boy]

I was scouting with a club for a few years and every year there were a handful of ND cases. One year, we had inside info that one highly regarded prospect had rather severe psychological issues and that another in the same draft was considering quitting hockey. They were both drafted in the 1st round and both lived up to their respective red flags (neither ever played an NHL game).

Rob Schremp was an ND in his year and so was Kyle Beach. Character. Akim Aliu got some support from some of our staff but was as close to an ND as you can be.

A few players every year are confirmed to have drug/severe alcohol issues, they usually land on the ND list. I will not name them for obvious reasons. One got his life turned around and eventually became a player (not for my team). Good on him.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Would love to hear the Kyle Beach stories, always thought him a really solid bottom 6 F.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Kyle Beach

Who? Never heard of him...

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I suspect that Josh Ho Sang made some DND lists. Downey, Duclair and Kassian also come to mind.

 

[HanSolo]

Something something Cam Fowler.

 

[CanuckCity]

I was scouting with a club for a few years and every year there were a handful of ND cases. One year, we had inside info that one highly regarded prospect had rather severe psychological issues and that another in the same draft was considering quitting hockey. They were both drafted in the 1st round and both lived up to their respective red flags (neither ever played an NHL game).

Rob Schremp was an ND in his year and so was Kyle Beach. Character. Akim Aliu got some support from some of our staff but was as close to an ND as you can be.

A few players every year are confirmed to have drug/severe alcohol issues, they usually land on the ND list. I will not name them for obvious reasons. One got his life turned around and eventually became a player (not for my team). Good on him.

Thanks for the input! Are these hard DND's, or is it more DND before x pick? Or a bit of both?

For ex i would have had no interest in taking Ryan Merkley in the first 3 rounds, but by round 4+ the potential reward is probably worth the risk. I suppose it likely depends why they are on the DND list though.

 

[BruinsBtn]

I'm curious to see how it works out with Merkely because he certainly didn't help his stock this year.

 

[Killerjas]

I was scouting with a club for a few years and every year there were a handful of ND cases. One year, we had inside info that one highly regarded prospect had rather severe psychological issues and that another in the same draft was considering quitting hockey. They were both drafted in the 1st round and both lived up to their respective red flags (neither ever played an NHL game).

Rob Schremp was an ND in his year and so was Kyle Beach. Character. Akim Aliu got some support from some of our staff but was as close to an ND as you can be.

A few players every year are confirmed to have drug/severe alcohol issues, they usually land on the ND list. I will not name them for obvious reasons. One got his life turned around and eventually became a player (not for my team). Good on him.

You probably have a NDA, but could you tell us more?

 

[Dr Pepper]

Was Casey Cizikas drafted before or after his rugby incident?

 

[Lyons89]

You probably have a NDA, but could you tell us more?

I've been trying to figure out who hes talking about for 20 minutes now.. not sure

 

[uncleben]

Was Casey Cizikas drafted before or after his rugby incident?

After

Happened in 2007. He was drafted in 2009.

2007 - Cizikas roughly tackles Castillo in a rugby game; two days later Castillo dies due to injury
2007-2008 - Cizikas is remorseful; doctors ruled Castillo's prior concussion was a major contributing factor; Castillo's family calls for Cizikas to be spared conviction, calling it an accident; Peel police pursue conviction anyway
2009 - Early June, Cizikas not invited to draft combine; June 27, drafted in the 4th round by NYI; July 6, found guilty of manslaughter, sentenced to probation/community service

 

[Killerjas]

I've been trying to figure out who hes talking about for 20 minutes now.. not sure

More recent:

2011: Tyler Biggs and Zack Phillips
2008: Kyle Beach, Anton Gustafsson and Daultan Leveille
2007: Angelo Esposito, Logan MacMillan, Patrick White and Nick Ross

 

[Brodeur]

Something something Cam Fowler.

I think Fowler's case was just more a perfect storm rather than him being a DND, similar to Zach Parise dropping unexpectedly in 2003. Sometimes the way the draft is ordered, a consensus top 10 guy can fall out of the top 10 just because the teams just happened to have one more guy ranked higher still available. Anaheim would have happily drafted Fowler earlier if they had a higher pick.

At least for me, it also didn't seem coincidental that many of the teams who passed on Fowler in 2010 happened to use a 2009 1st rounder on a LHD. Obviously it seems silly that you would pass on Fowler because you just drafted somebody you were hoping could be as good as Fowler, but....

4. Columbus - 2009 1st rounder used on John Moore.
5. NY Islanders - 2009 1st rounder used on Calvin de Haan. They also seemed to make it known that they were looking for a long term winger for Tavares in 2010.
6. Tampa Bay - 2009 1st rounder used on Victor Hedman.
7. Carolina - Then GM Jim Rutherford had previously mentioned his distaste for drafting D in the first round because they take longer to develop (albeit ironic that they'd take Ryan Murphy the next year).
9. Minnesota - 2009 1st rounder used on Nick Leddy.
10. NY Rangers - 2008 1st rounder used on Michael Del Zotto.

------------

Ducati Boy's post also reminded me of a recent prospect Brayden Burke. He put up great numbers in the WHL and seemed worthy of at least a mid-late round pick. Apparently it was known that he had some off the ice issues, so he went undrafted three times. He was traded away from his junior club after being called a distraction. Vaguely recall that he got cleaned up and eventually signed with Arizona as a free agent.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

While I agree Fowler was more of a perfect storm, I do wonder about Brandon Gormley. He was pretty highly ranked too.

Then again, the 2010 draft was just a weird one all together.

 

[Rebels57]

After

Happened in 2007. He was drafted in 2009.

2007 - Cizikas roughly tackles Castillo in a rugby game; two days later Castillo dies due to injury
2007-2008 - Cizikas is remorseful; doctors ruled Castillo's prior concussion was a major contributing factor; Castillo's family calls for Cizikas to be spared conviction, calling it an accident; Peel police pursue conviction anyway
2009 - Early June, Cizikas not invited to draft combine; June 27, drafted in the 4th round by NYI; July 6, found guilty of manslaughter, sentenced to probation/community service

Jesus, that's awful. Pretty god damn ridiculous that they pursued conviction over a rugby tackle by a 16 year old, as tragic as the outcome was. Was it a blatant shot to the head or something along those lines?

 

[thomaspalmer]

Coincidentally Sportsnet/Brian Burke just put up a video discussing that the Leafs had Nail Yakupov as a "do not draft" in 2012.

Here's the vid (starts talking about it at ~ 2:00):

 

[Moskau]

Jesus, that's awful. Pretty god damn ridiculous that they pursued conviction over a rugby tackle by a 16 year old, as tragic as the outcome was. Was it a blatant shot to the head or something along those lines?

Being an incident involving minors at the time there wasn't a lot of information but my recollection of what happened is that it was not a "rugby tackle". The original story was that they got into a shoving match and Cizikas grabbed him and gave him a pile driver into the ground.

 

[uncleben]

Jesus, that's awful. Pretty god damn ridiculous that they pursued conviction over a rugby tackle by a 16 year old, as tragic as the outcome was. Was it a blatant shot to the head or something along those lines?

Being an incident involving minors at the time there wasn't a lot of information but my recollection of what happened is that it was not a "rugby tackle". The original story was that they got into a shoving match and Cizikas grabbed him and gave him a pile driver into the ground.

As Moskau said, there was lack of information due to privacy concerns. But there were also conflicting reports, and false reporting, at the time.

There was talk Cizikas pile-drove him. Cizikas claimed it was a headlock as self-defense (Idk if he actually pled "self-defens"e, but I think his story was more inline with it being retaliatory/reactionary to something Castillo did). I think the consensus was though, that even if was adjacent to rugby-inherent-violence, there was added aggression. Castillo's family claimed they believe it was an accident (the injury and death) and did not want to hold Cizikas criminally responsible; they also did later speak out about violence/aggression/fighting in sports too though.

Most of that is from memory, though I did look up the Castillo's family's take just to be sure I remembered that right.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Being an incident involving minors at the time there wasn't a lot of information but my recollection of what happened is that it was not a "rugby tackle". The original story was that they got into a shoving match and Cizikas grabbed him and gave him a pile driver into the ground.

Which is why fighting in general is so stupid. Hit someone the wrong way or have them fall the wrong way because of something you did and you're looking at manslaughter charges I don't think kids truly grasp how their lives can change because of some petty fight.

 

[lakai17]

More recent:

2011: Tyler Biggs and Zack Phillips
2008: Kyle Beach, Anton Gustafsson and Daultan Leveille
2007: Angelo Esposito, Logan MacMillan, Patrick White and Nick Ross

In 07 I imagine Aliu for sure.

Perhaps Moller, Sexsmith and Bowman as well. Bowman and Sexsmith were highly touted on their come ups.

 

[Moskau]

Hunter Shinkaruk was definitely on a few do not draft lists.

 

[DaveG]

More recent:

2011: Tyler Biggs and Zack Phillips
2008: Kyle Beach, Anton Gustafsson and Daultan Leveille
2007: Angelo Esposito, Logan MacMillan, Patrick White and Nick Ross

Further back Koreis and Mike Morris in 02 fit the bill to a t.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Wilde dropped like a rock after combine. Pronman alluded to interviews or character or something dropping him a bunch. I never got any clarification on what exactly it was.