Do a Majority of Fans Actually Care About the Streak?

[Vladdy84]

If the Wings were 100% healthy, that means Datsyuk and Zetterberg together on the top line, Weiss centering the 2nd line, the Kid Line together on the third line and a shutdown fourth line with Helm, Glendening and Miller.

The D would have four good top Ds (Kronner, Big E, Smith, DDK) and Quincey could pair with Kindl, Lashoff, or one of the kids.

The Wings, with everyone healthy, are a much better team than people want to give them credit for.

100% concur. But that's a big IF.

 

[Bench]

100% concur. But that's a big IF.

I think the issues stem that Wings management expects they'll be healthy this year. That's the expectation every year after the long summer.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

This forum is full of people who want the Wings to suck so they can say I told you so.

We have some of the most pessimistic fans around here and that's beyond annoying. But at the same token, acting like there's never anything wrong and that there's a good reason for every thing is just as bad for me.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

I think the issues stem that Wings management expects they'll be healthy this year. That's the expectation every year after the long summer.

Who's the last team to win with a significant injury/injuries? Or even go far?

I'm genuinely curious..

Health is always such a big factor. Maybe the biggest. And in today's cap world, I know how well you can really prepare for dealing with significant injuries. I think most GMs are just hoping for a bit of luck on the injury front. And I have to imagine that most winning teams get a bit lucky in terms of limited injuries.

 

[dtones520]

I think the issues stem that Wings management expects they'll be healthy this year. That's the expectation every year after the long summer.

Shouldn't most teams management expect their roster to be healthy?

 

[Bench]

Shouldn't most teams management expect their roster to be healthy?

Absolutely.

What I mean is while we can point to lackluster results in round 1 last year, I'm confident management feels things go different if Datsyuk and Zetterberg are healthy. And they have a point.

 

[irishock]

I only do two things:

1. Make the playoffs
2. Win the last game you play

The "streak" is just a gimmick; there is nothing else.

 

[jkutswings]

Then either I undervalue several players on this roster, or most others overvalue them, because I see the CHI series as much more of a fluke than a measuring stick.

It's likely that my standards are way too high, but after this franchise essentially rewriting the book on success in modern sports, anything less than being on the short list of elite contenders - or boldly rebuilding to get there - is unacceptable.

 

[Frk It]

Had no idea where to put this, but I 100% agree.

@BradGalli
Visited with Ted Lindsay this morning. Asked him what Red Wings number should be retired next. His answer: Sergei Fedorov.

 

[Vladdy84]

Had no idea where to put this, but I 100% agree.

@BradGalli
Visited with Ted Lindsay this morning. Asked him what Red Wings number should be retired next. His answer: Sergei Fedorov.

Also agree. Sergei was the best and most dynamic forward to play for the Wings in the past 20+ years.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Then either I undervalue several players on this roster, or most others overvalue them, because I see the CHI series as much more of a fluke than a measuring stick.

It's likely that my standards are way too high, but after this franchise essentially rewriting the book on success in modern sports, anything less than being on the short list of elite contenders - or boldly rebuilding to get there - is unacceptable.

Having just come out of the Anaheim series and beating a pretty good team I have no idea how you could say that. The team was playing very well. Chicago was better and they went on to win the cup. We are in the midst of a rebuild and we took the eventual champ to ot in 7. Last year was crazy with the injuries and the team certainly wasn't healthy going into the playoffs. If you want to take a look at why we have so many injuries then fine. Its worth looking at though I am sure the team is looking at it. However I still think this team is on the right track. Maybe ahead of schedule.

 

[Crymson]

I'd take a season without the playoffs if it were to spur a certain fool in management to make changes.

 

[Actual Thought*]

We have some of the most pessimistic fans around here and that's beyond annoying. But at the same token, acting like there's never anything wrong and that there's a good reason for every thing is just as bad for me.

Yeah maybe but the "fire Holland and Babs they are idiots" theme here seems to me to be pretty absurd. Neither of these guys are the type of guys that you fire. Why would anyone gut a system that took years to build and is running like a machine? Most years in either guy's tenure the team has been considered a contender. They have never missed the playoffs which means they win a lot more than they lose. Always. Lidstrom retired and Holland failed to have an extra Nick Lidstrom laying around. Still this team will contend sooner than later and with the youth they should sustain contention for years. The team is in some of the most capable hands in the NHL and the near consensus here is to fire em.

 

[Actual Thought*]

I'd take a season without the playoffs if it were to spur a certain fool in management to make changes.

Let me get this straight. You would be okay loosing more if it made Holland abandon the winning formula?

 

[MrTaterSalad]

If we're not contending for a Cup, what exactly do we gain by letting Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall and Franzen retire as Wings? I don't know where the mathematics lie on this issue, but I'd rather take a gamble on prospects and draft picks than just watching Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall and Franzen limp into the twilight of their careers with a bunch of aging veterans around them. Veterans who aren't going to help us win a Cup IMO.

 

[jkutswings]

Having just come out of the Anaheim series and beating a pretty good team I have no idea how you could say that. The team was playing very well. Chicago was better and they went on to win the cup. We are in the midst of a rebuild and we took the eventual champ to ot in 7. Last year was crazy with the injuries and the team certainly wasn't healthy going into the playoffs. If you want to take a look at why we have so many injuries then fine. Its worth looking at though I am sure the team is looking at it. However I still think this team is on the right track. Maybe ahead of schedule.

In 2004, they lost to Calgary in the 2nd round. In 2006, they lost to Edmonton in the 1st round. Both those Red Wing rosters were better than this one, and yet I wouldn't say that Calgary or Edmonton are franchises "on the right track".

Flukes happen. All the time. The Florida Panthers made it to the Finals in 1996, then promptly disappeared again. So, based on the other recent playoff results, I'd say that beating the Ducks, then taking Chicago to 7 (which, in my opinion was just as much the Hawks sleepwalking through the first few games as the Wings playing well) isn't a strong indicator of the overall trend of the franchise.

What all this boils down to, is different definitions of success. Some people think making the playoffs is a successful year, and so be it. I'm saying that, when you still have several vets on your team, EVERY SINGLE SEASON YOU DON'T MAKE AT LEAST THE 3RD ROUND IS A TOTAL FAILURE. Feel free to disagree, but based on that definition, the last several years have been as follows:

2009 - choked at the end; good year, but wasted opportunity
2010 - lost to a bigger, faster team; small changes needed
2011 - lost to the same team; significant changes needed
2012 - total embarrassment; major changes needed
2013 - youth shows some promise, but still a long way off; major changes needed
2014 - boy amongst men; does Holland even have a pulse?

So keep cheering this mediocrity if you like, but if the model doesn't change, 5 years from now they'll have zero additional Cups, and be losing Pavel & Hank to retirement without getting anything in return.

 

[Henkka]

2014 - boy amongst men; does Holland even have a pulse?

So keep cheering this mediocrity if you like, but if the model doesn't change, 5 years from now they'll have zero additional Cups, and be losing Pavel & Hank to retirement without getting anything in return.

And you still think that after 5 years our boys are still only boys who'll lose against men on the 1st round?

 

[jkutswings]

And you still think that after 5 years our boys are still only boys who'll lose against men on the 1st round?

I do. In 5 years, Nyquist and Mantha will HOPEFULLY have replaced the offense of Hank and Pavel. If that's a wash - and we're not exactly chocked full on defense - where's the boost coming from? A good return on most prospects is having an average NHL career, which keeps the Wings as a 1st or 2nd round exit.

 

[ricky0034]

Had no idea where to put this, but I 100% agree.

@BradGalli
Visited with Ted Lindsay this morning. Asked him what Red Wings number should be retired next. His answer: Sergei Fedorov.

i'd say Red Kelly personally

I do think Fedorov's should be retired too but if I had to pick just one it would be him

I do. In 5 years, Nyquist and Mantha will HOPEFULLY have replaced the offense of Hank and Pavel. If that's a wash - and we're not exactly chocked full on defense - where's the boost coming from? A good return on most prospects is having an average NHL career, which keeps the Wings as a 1st or 2nd round exit.

if Nyquist and Mantha are a wash for replacing Datsyuk and Zetterberg offensively in 5 years you think the Wings are a 1st or 2nd round exit? seriously?

the Wings have a lot more prospects than just those two

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

The streak in and of itself is just a narrative built to sell the team. Yes, making the playoffs is important and being successful is really the most important thing in sports. But at the expense of making narrow-minded, short sighted trades that hurt the long term success of the organization? The streak is not important.

 

[jkutswings]

If Nyquist and Mantha are a wash for replacing Datsyuk and Zetterberg offensively in 5 years you think the Wings are a 1st or 2nd round exit? seriously?

the Wings have a lot more prospects than just those two

But we're talking about getting SIGNIFICANTLY better than they are now. I used the word HOPEFULLY for comparing Nyquist and Mantha to Hank and Pavel, because I think that's the ceiling we can hope for on offense. I don't see them as the next Crosby and Stamkos, and I don't see them nearly as good defensively as the Eurotwins.

On the blueline, who's the next stud? DeKeyser is solid for a youngster, but I don't see Smith or Kindl or anybody else as a 1A guy in 5 years.

There's a great chance they'll still make the playoffs and maybe advance a round, but when the current model isn't bringing in any good free agents, which prospects exactly are making then a final four type of team?

 

[Winger98]

2009 - choked at the end; good year, but wasted opportunity

2014 - boy amongst men; does Holland even have a pulse?

The number of players carried over from the 09 team to the 14 team?

Nine.

Holland's earned a lot of criticism for his inability to seal the deal in recent free agency to lack of trades to conservative prospect graduations, but the majority of the roster has been changed over. It's also been changed over in the manner he's been talking about the past few years - through a slow working in of prospects.

I don't like a number of his moves in recent years, but he's also building and turning over the roster pretty much exactly how he has intimated.

 

[MrTaterSalad]

The number of players carried over from the 09 team to the 14 team?

Nine.

Holland's earned a lot of criticism for his inability to seal the deal in recent free agency to lack of trades to conservative prospect graduations, but the majority of the roster has been changed over. It's also been changed over in the manner he's been talking about the past few years - through a slow working in of prospects.

I don't like a number of his moves in recent years, but he's also building and turning over the roster pretty much exactly how he has intimated.

Holland had every intention of trading his top two young players, Nyquist and Tatar, for Jay Bowmeester. When that fell through he had every intention of giving their roster spots to Cleary and Samuelsson respectively. Holland's roster changes, when it comes to young players, have been forced due to injury or atrocious play by the guys he's signed to take those spots. It's changed, so it seems, out of spite in terms of youth being added to the roster more than Holland trusting and wanting to play the kids.

 

[jkutswings]

It's also been changed over in the manner he's been talking about the past few years - through a slow working in of prospects.

I don't like a number of his moves in recent years, but he's also building and turning over the roster pretty much exactly how he has intimated.

Agreed, but let's picture a roster as an hourglass, with talent coming in through drafting, trades, and free agency, and talent going out through age, trades, and free agency. We lost a ton of sand over the course of Hossa, Lidstrom, and Rafalski departing. Since then, it appears that the in/out flux is about even. EVENTUALLY, you need significantly more in than out to get significantly better, and the major loss of Datsyuk and Zetterberg isn't ALL that far away. The "slowly stay the course" approach will increasingly cause more problems than it will solve.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Holland had every intention of trading his top two young players, Nyquist and Tatar, for Jay Bowmeester. When that fell through he had every intention of giving their roster spots to Cleary and Samuelsson respectively. Holland's roster changes, when it comes to young players, have been forced due to injury or atrocious play by the guys he's signed to take those spots. It's changed, so it seems, out of spite in terms of youth being added to the roster more than Holland trusting and wanting to play the kids.

Haven't people been clamoring for Holland to make a trade for a top pairing defenseman since Rafalski retired?

That would have been a huge upgrade in terms of the defense, despite being an overpayment. That's the frustrating part about the whole "trade for a defenseman" situation. If that trade is any indication, it would take a big overpayment to land a guy we need.