Do a Majority of Fans Actually Care About the Streak?

[Frk It]

Holland had every intention of trading his top two young players, Nyquist and Tatar, for Jay Bowmeester. When that fell through he had every intention of giving their roster spots to Cleary and Samuelsson respectively. Holland's roster changes, when it comes to young players, have been forced due to injury or atrocious play by the guys he's signed to take those spots. It's changed, so it seems, out of spite in terms of youth being added to the roster more than Holland trusting and wanting to play the kids.

Absolutely.

 

[Winger98]

Agreed, but let's picture a roster as an hourglass, with talent coming in through drafting, trades, and free agency, and talent going out through age, trades, and free agency. We lost a ton of sand over the course of Hossa, Lidstrom, and Rafalski departing. Since then, it appears that the in/out flux is about even. EVENTUALLY, you need significantly more in than out to get significantly better, and the major loss of Datsyuk and Zetterberg isn't ALL that far away. The "slowly stay the course" approach will increasingly cause more problems than it will solve.

On a pure talent basis, I think it's essentially impossible to expect direct replacements for those guys, and for D&Z in the future. It's not meant to be an excuse, I just think our expectations are going to have to be tempered a bit regarding the team we'll be able to ice.

With slowly replacing the departing pieces internally, I don't agree with the pace, but I largely agree with the idea. Free agency has largely dried up of elite players. Stastny and Vanek were the closest thing to it this summer and they were, well, less than elite. Not bad, but they aren't guys you lean on to go out and just take over a game.

On the trade front, it seems we want some big trade made but when we find out what is reportedly offered (and turned down) we
scream in horror at it. Perhaps more importantly, though, who has been moved that we should (and could have realistically) been in on? JBo, yeah. But it seems pretty much every other rumor out there has been a guy who was never moved. Makes me question the rumors, really.

Which leaves prospects and kids to come up and slowly rebuild the team. I think we've goofed with when we've been willing to bring them up (I thought Smith and Nyquist had shown enough to be up a year earlier than they were, for example), but it still seems like the best strategy.

I'm not happy with the roster right now, I wish we had been more aggressive with some UFA or had just went with kids this next season when we struck out on our big targets. But leaning on the guys we drafted still seems like what Holland has preached for awhile.

Absolutely.

but it speaks more to the time frame than the plan. Holland does wait until a guy has to be on the roster and that's a mistake when he does it with every single guy. But once those guys have been out of waiver options, he's largely kept them around. Kindl is still here. Ericsson. Smith. Tatar, I think, will be here awhile (until he's a ufa anyway).

I don't agree with making every single kid wait until they are out of options, but that doesn't mean Holland's not leaning on kids for the bulk of the rebuild.

Really, neither does Holland exploring trades. Throwing a couple of kids at Calgary for Bouwmeester doesn't exactly gut our system, and a lot of us are calling for Holland to make some more moves.

 

[jkutswings]

No disagreements with what you're saying. It just doesn't lessen the frustration of the wait, and doesn't change that there have been players he's passed even making offers on (at least that we know of):

* Could've taken a shot at Alexander Semin in free agency (who panned out well)
* Could've joined Philly in making an offer on Shea Weber (who is EXACTLY the type of guy we could use to anchor our defense, silly contract or not...not like we used the cap space anyways)
* Could've made an offer on Cammalieri or Vanek (maybe not ELITE, but solid scoring wingers, which, after a top defenseman, is the next biggest need IMO)

And while the Weber offer would've taken draft picks, none of the above options would've taken a single player off the existing roster at the time, allowing the youth to develop while icing more than just a, "Hey, we made the playoffs! Woohoo! Oh, wait, we just got stomped again" roster.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

No disagreements with what you're saying. It just doesn't lessen the frustration of the wait, and doesn't change that there have been players he's passed even making offers on (at least that we know of):

* Could've taken a shot at Alexander Semin in free agency (who panned out well)
* Could've joined Philly in making an offer on Shea Weber (who is EXACTLY the type of guy we could use to anchor our defense, silly contract or not...not like we used the cap space anyways)
* Could've made an offer on Cammalieri or Vanek (maybe not ELITE, but solid scoring wingers, which, after a top defenseman, is the next biggest need IMO)

And while the Weber offer would've taken draft picks, none of the above options would've taken a single player off the existing roster at the time, allowing the youth to develop while icing more than just a, "Hey, we made the playoffs! Woohoo! Oh, wait, we just got stomped again" roster.

Only one who really makes sense in my opinion is Semin. It was two years ago, we had a much worse forward group than we do now, and he could have been had for free, but no offer was given. Weber was going to play in Nashville no matter what was offered, Cammalleri really isn't needed as much as a defenseman is, and Vanek was Minnesota bound as soon as Montreal was eliminated.

 

[jkutswings]

Perhaps Weber and Vanek would never ever have come here, but there's no way to find out if you don't try. And if there really is zero percent chance at landing an increasing number of free agents, what's to say that trend won't translate into greater difficulty in keeping players, or other issues?

Losing luster can be dangerous if left unchecked.

 

[Frk It]

but it speaks more to the time frame than the plan. Holland does wait until a guy has to be on the roster and that's a mistake when he does it with every single guy. But once those guys have been out of waiver options, he's largely kept them around. Kindl is still here. Ericsson. Smith. Tatar, I think, will be here awhile (until he's a ufa anyway).

I don't agree with making every single kid wait until they are out of options, but that doesn't mean Holland's not leaning on kids for the bulk of the rebuild.

Really, neither does Holland exploring trades. Throwing a couple of kids at Calgary for Bouwmeester doesn't exactly gut our system, and a lot of us are calling for Holland to make some more moves.

I would be fine with waiting as long as it's because we have better players to play over these kids.

If you want to put Jurco in GR, because you just signed Vanek or Moulson. Then go right ahead.

But when you are burying these kids over worse players, you're just not utilizing these assets well that you are doing a good job of drafting. And it's not like a guy like Jurco can't handle playing in the NHL. He did more than hold his own.

 

[Winger98]

I would be fine with waiting as long as it's because we have better players to play over these kids.

If you want to put Jurco in GR, because you just signed Vanek or Moulson. Then go right ahead.

But when you are burying these kids over worse players, you're just not utilizing these assets well that you are doing a good job of drafting. And it's not like a guy like Jurco can't handle playing in the NHL. He did more than hold his own.

I agree entirely. I really don't want to see Jurco demoted so we can not waiver Andersson or so we make sure Cleary reaches his 10 game bonus. I don't mind Jurco down if he's not in the top9, but with the group we have, he should have a spot. It's just wrong if he doesn't.

That said, I'm not entirely for having a guy just because he's better than the guys we have on the fourth line. I think Tatar could have held down a roster spot a year earlier and contributed, but I think he really elevated his game with the extra year in GR.

 

[DanZ]

Only one who really makes sense in my opinion is Semin. It was two years ago, we had a much worse forward group than we do now, and he could have been had for free, but no offer was given. Weber was going to play in Nashville no matter what was offered, Cammalleri really isn't needed as much as a defenseman is, and Vanek was Minnesota bound as soon as Montreal was eliminated.

That was infuriating. Semin with Datsyuk would have been money.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Didn't Holland kick the tires on Weber and was basically told he wasn't interested?

 

[InjuredChoker]

Didn't Holland kick the tires on Weber and was basically told he wasn't interested?

i can't recall shea saying that he's not interested. just that he was most interested in philly. likely because of the money.

 

[jkutswings]

Didn't Holland kick the tires on Weber and was basically told he wasn't interested?

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/07/red_wings_pursued_defenseman_s.html

The article seems to speak a mixed bag, between "numerous conversations" with the agent, and (further down the page) unofficially being against the concept altogether:

"The Red Wings, under general manager Ken Holland, have never tendered an offer sheet to a restricted free agent. They have no team policy against it, but seem to feel it does nothing but inflate prices for others and is pointless (of the six previous offer sheets tendered to a restricted free agent since the lockout in 2004-05, only one team did not match – Anaheim took three draft picks from Edmonton for Dustin Penner in 2007)."

 

[Winger98]

We were also rumored to have been ready to put an offer sheet on Luongo's desk when he was still with Florida. Our team would have looked a bit different with that salary on our books.

 

[probertrules24]

We were also rumored to have been ready to put an offer sheet on Luongo's desk when he was still with Florida. Our team would have looked a bit different with that salary on our books.

A good buddy of mine is related to Dave Lewis and he told me years ago that a deal was very close to getting done for him. I don't recall the details but I do remember him mentioning Draper and Kronwall.

This is total rumor as I never heard it come out of Lewis mouth. I think it would of been around 03-04.

 

[Vladdy84]

That was infuriating. Semin with Datsyuk would have been money.

I was all board the Semin bandwagon. Imagine if we had a line of

Semin-Dats-Grabbo

 

[ricky0034]

Only one who really makes sense in my opinion is Semin. It was two years ago, we had a much worse forward group than we do now, and he could have been had for free, but no offer was given. Weber was going to play in Nashville no matter what was offered, Cammalleri really isn't needed as much as a defenseman is, and Vanek was Minnesota bound as soon as Montreal was eliminated.

the Semin thing was downright bizarre really,he ended up signing a 1 year contract and there was never even so much as a rumor of the Wings even being interested in him at all

 

[ArGarBarGar]

the Semin thing was downright bizarre really,he ended up signing a 1 year contract and there was never even so much as a rumor of the Wings even being interested in him at all

That was the case for the majority of the league. He was not a hot commodity.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

the Semin thing was downright bizarre really,he ended up signing a 1 year contract and there was never even so much as a rumor of the Wings even being interested in him at all

Well Khan reported pretty early they weren't interested in him at all. I don't think just our GM wasn't interested, they made it sound like the coaches and pro scouts were against it as well.

As many of us pointed out at the time Datsyuk didn't make a peep about him either, not even a yeah I would like to play with him. Now not his place, but you feel like if he really wanted it that would have at least back-channeled and been reported later on and it wasn't.

I thought it was worth exploring, though Semin continues to be somewhat enigmatic. I like his game but last year was a disaster on the first year of his big deal something many wondered might happen.

 

[Eastopia]

To answer the original question, yes, I care about the streak and I'd be disappointed if it was lost. I rather like seeing Detroit in the playoffs and if we are healthy I believe we could do some damage. I am also not interested in suffering 10 years in a row just so that maybe, possibly, it could be that we might have a better chance at winning it all then than we do now. If we're lucky.

No sir, I get more than enough of that kind of frustration from watching my local team. Lol.

Holland has managed a rebuild like this before, it's a little different now but I will at least give him the chance to fail before I say screw it and greenlight any desperate measure like a full rebuild. And I'll never sign off on trading #40 or #13 unless they ask for it themselves anyway.

 

[Henkka]

I thought it was worth exploring, though Semin continues to be somewhat enigmatic. I like his game but last year was a disaster on the first year of his big deal something many wondered might happen.

Played trough a wrist injury. Kind of kills everything Semin can do with the puck. But he still plays good defence.

There hasn't been anything wrong on is attitude what I've heard from Carolina. And Semin as been also quite strong with advanced stats.

For me, that defensively bad right-handed Russian at Capitals has been AO all the time. Maybe Semin was frustrated being behind him on a secondary role and putting 1st line effort on the ice and wanted to leave and had some attitude case there when he was demoted to 3rd line minutes.

I have watched Semin a lot, because I've been GM in one keeper league since 2009 and owned Semin during that span. Funniest thing at this all Semin case was Carolina fans who have been wondering all the time this hate from Caps fans, which they won't understand at all. Semin as been nothing but great at Carolina, and one of their best forwards defensively. No head cases, produced if healthy, great defensively. Totally worth of that 1-year gamble after they got that extension. he maybe takes too much penalties/min, but that comes from is stick aggressiveness when trying to steal pucks.

 

[MrTaterSalad]

Haven't people been clamoring for Holland to make a trade for a top pairing defenseman since Rafalski retired?

That would have been a huge upgrade in terms of the defense, despite being an overpayment. That's the frustrating part about the whole "trade for a defenseman" situation. If that trade is any indication, it would take a big overpayment to land a guy we need.

I was one of those people clamoring for one, but that was so last three seasons. My tune has changed now and I want a rebuild.