Discussion: Coach Willie Desjardins | V

[Zaddy91]

Travis Green is not going to be a panacea for this team's ills.

disagree

baertschi alone would get another 20 points as he was white hot in utica then got willie'd

 

[VanJack]

Travis Green is not going to be a panacea for this team's ills.

Maybe not, but you'd have to admit that for whatever reason he works wonders with the younger players in Utica....guys like Gaunce, Labate, Biega, Grenier, Zalewski, Markstrom, Subban, Shinkaruk and even Baertschi for half a season, have all made remarkable strides playing for this coach. Contrast that to the stagnation that Virtanen and McCann showed last year playing under Willie. In fact I half-hope that Virtanen gets away from the Canucks 'NHL' coach and plays a season under Green...he'd be a different player.

 

[F A N]

Maybe not, but you'd have to admit that for whatever reason he works wonders with the younger players in Utica....guys like Gaunce, Labate, Biega, Grenier, Zalewski, Markstrom, Subban, Shinkaruk and even Baertschi for half a season, have all made remarkable strides playing for this coach. Contrast that to the stagnation that Virtanen and McCann showed last year playing under Willie. In fact I half-hope that Virtanen gets away from the Canucks 'NHL' coach and plays a season under Green...he'd be a different player.

That's an unfair comment. Making strikes in the AHL is different from making strikes in the NHL. Virtanen was a better player in the 2nd half than 1st half. Horvat was the same in his rookie year. Baertschi was better in the 2nd half than 1st half as well. McCann was not better in the 2nd half, but it's not unusual for rookies to hit a wall.

 

[Ainec]

Is there a site that shows how much we lead the league in too many men penalty

 

[Toxic0n]

Is there a site that shows how much we lead the league in too many men penalty

I couldn't find anything but some articles.

In 2014-2015, Canucks took 20 too many men penalties
In 2015-2016, it was a couple more than that and I think broke a record. The second highest were the Blackhawks with 13 and it cost them 2nd place in their division. No big deal, right? It's just us nitpicking on ol' Willie. 20+ too many men penalties are not his fault, our players are just too eager.

Of the 13 too many men penalties for the Blackhawks this season, only four of the ensuing power plays were successful for the opposing team. But three of the goals were particularly costly.

One of them led to Mark Stone’s go-ahead goal in the third period of Ottawa’s 4-3 overtime victory on Dec. 3. Another one cleared the way for Ryan Getzlaf’s overtime winner in Anaheim’s 3-2 victory at Chicago on Feb. 13. And there was David Backes’ tying goal in the third period of St. Louis’ 3-2 shootout win on March 9.

The Blackhawks (47-26-9) finished third in the Central Division, four points back of the second-place Blues (49-24-9).

In 2016-2017, the Canucks are on pace for 82

 

[VanJack]

That's an unfair comment. Making strikes in the AHL is different from making strikes in the NHL. Virtanen was a better player in the 2nd half than 1st half. Horvat was the same in his rookie year. Baertschi was better in the 2nd half than 1st half as well. McCann was not better in the 2nd half, but it's not unusual for rookies to hit a wall.

Sorry, but the way Willie used or mis-used both Virtanen and McCann in what turned out to be a lost season, was a serious mistake. Both guys should have been back in junior instead of stapled to the bench in third periods or sitting in the press-box...they released Jake to play in the World Juniors, but wouldn't send McCann...then ended up trading him anyway.

 

[Jyrki21]

Sorry, but the way Willie used or mis-used both Virtanen and McCann in what turned out to be a lost season, was a serious mistake. Both guys should have been back in junior instead of stapled to the bench in third periods or sitting in the press-box...they released Jake to play in the World Juniors, but wouldn't send McCann...then ended up trading him anyway.

But it was a necessary sacrifice to successfully protect all those third-period leads, and make all those third-period comebacks. I mean, last season could have been a disaster otherwise!

 

[VanJack]

But it was a necessary sacrifice to successfully protect all those third-period leads, and make all those third-period comebacks. I mean, last season could have been a disaster otherwise!

You're absolutely right....they could have plummeted all the way from 28th to 30th overall, and then ended up with Matthews instead of Juolevi...whew!...'Disaster' averted!.

 

[quat]

Maybe so, I just don't think that it's a big of a deal as is made out to be given the other issues that the team has (had?). I think Willie is a pretty good coach and it seems like we're nitpicking.

I think Willie is likely a pretty good person, but his tenure with this club points directly to being a very poor coach at the NHL level. Perhaps he'll improve, and he's been given a lot of latitude by Management, so at least he has more time to prove his case.

The fact that you think people are nitpicking over Willie being one of, if not the worst culprits for bench minors over two seasons says a lot. If you're not critical of that level of incompetence, then essentially there's no reason to evaluate anything he does, as it would all seem unreasonable.

 

[WTG]

If he coaches like he did last game I can see him lasting.

He actually hard matched against McDavid's line. Willie's systems aren't the problem in coaching it's his god awful bench management, and I thought that last game he actually showed some improvement in that regard.

 

[racerjoe]

If he coaches like he did last game I can see him lasting.

He actually hard matched against McDavid's line. Willie's systems aren't the problem in coaching it's his god awful bench management, and I thought that last game he actually showed some improvement in that regard.

He also can't make adjustments very well.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Maybe not, but you'd have to admit that for whatever reason he works wonders with the younger players in Utica....guys like Gaunce, Labate, Biega, Grenier, Zalewski, Markstrom, Subban, Shinkaruk and even Baertschi for half a season, have all made remarkable strides playing for this coach. Contrast that to the stagnation that Virtanen and McCann showed last year playing under Willie. In fact I half-hope that Virtanen gets away from the Canucks 'NHL' coach and plays a season under Green...he'd be a different player.

Yes, but, Dallas Eakins.

 

[Nomobo]

I think Willie is likely a pretty good person, but his tenure with this club points directly to being a very poor coach at the NHL level. Perhaps he'll improve, and he's been given a lot of latitude by Management, so at least he has more time to prove his case.

The fact that you think people are nitpicking over Willie being one of, if not the worst culprits for bench minors over two seasons says a lot. If you're not critical of that level of incompetence, then essentially there's no reason to evaluate anything he does, as it would all seem unreasonable.

"Seven of the NHL's 16 playoff teams were among the league's most penalized clubs for having too many men on the ice, according to STATS" Saturday, October1, 2016.
Toronto Sun


Here you go, the best I could come up with. Hope that helps.

 

[LeftCoast]

I think Willie is likely a pretty good person, but his tenure with this club points directly to being a very poor coach at the NHL level. Perhaps he'll improve, and he's been given a lot of latitude by Management, so at least he has more time to prove his case.

The fact that you think people are nitpicking over Willie being one of, if not the worst culprits for bench minors over two seasons says a lot. If you're not critical of that level of incompetence, then essentially there's no reason to evaluate anything he does, as it would all seem unreasonable.

I think Willie is possibly salvageable. It's primarily his bench management that sucks.

I think criticism of his demeanor behind the bench is silly. All coaches are tightly wound on game day - they just display it in different ways. Marc Crawford and Mike Keenan looked like they were always in rage. Alain Vigneault chewed his gum with vigorous intensity. Pat Quinn had an intenses steely glare behind the bench (but could also be the patient teacher type}.

 

[banme*]

"Seven of the NHL's 16 playoff teams were among the league's most penalized clubs for having too many men on the ice, according to STATS" Saturday, October1, 2016.
Toronto Sun


Here you go, the best I could come up with. Hope that helps.

That's correlation right there.

 

[RobertKron]

I think Willie is possibly salvageable. It's primarily his bench management that sucks.

I think criticism of his demeanor behind the bench is silly. All coaches are tightly wound on game day - they just display it in different ways. Marc Crawford and Mike Keenan looked like they were always in rage. Alain Vigneault chewed his gum with vigorous intensity. Pat Quinn had an intenses steely glare behind the bench (but could also be the patient teacher type}.

There's a difference between being intense and getting tunnel-vision. There was an article somewhere that had a couple paragraphs talking about how Desjardins' gets so zoned-in on the on-ice game that everything else is basically blacked out, he's jumping around as though he's actually playing out the actions on the ice, and that his heart rate is through the roof.

That's not necessarily a good thing. As head coach, he needs to be able to take that mental step back and keep the bigger picture in mind at all times. You need that detachment to be able to pick up on things and make adjustments on the fly.

 

[RobertKron]

That's correlation right there.

It's a new strategy to get the team back to the playoffs.

 

[LeftCoast]

There's a difference between being intense and getting tunnel-vision. There was an article somewhere that had a couple paragraphs talking about how Desjardins' gets so zoned-in on the on-ice game that everything else is basically blacked out, he's jumping around as though he's actually playing out the actions on the ice, and that his heart rate is through the roof.

That's not necessarily a good thing. As head coach, he needs to be able to take that mental step back and keep the bigger picture in mind at all times. You need that detachment to be able to pick up on things and make adjustments on the fly.

This is conjecture.

You can observe a person's behaviour and demeanor. You can assume, based on the situation, a certain level of stress and nervous energy. But you don't know his emotional state and can't say what he sees or what is going on in his head.

There are a lot of things to criticize WD over, but focusing on his look, demeanor and mannerisms is juvenile; like picking on the funny looking kid at school. There are some very good coaches who look like unhinged emotional wrecks behind the bench, and others, equally good who look so calm at to be almost disinterested.

 

[RobertKron]

This is conjecture.

You can observe a person's behaviour and demeanor. You can assume, based on the situation, a certain level of stress and nervous energy. But you don't know his emotional state and can't say what he sees or what is going on in his head.

There are a lot of things to criticize WD over, but focusing on his look, demeanor and mannerisms is juvenile; like picking on the funny looking kid at school. There are some very good coaches who look like unhinged emotional wrecks behind the bench, and others, equally good who look so calm at to be almost disinterested.

It's not about how he looks. I don't care how the guy looks. I can't find the article, but IIRC, it gave specific anecdotes about Desjardins not noticing anything but the on-ice play. It played it as a positive, but given his struggles in areas that this would directly impact, I don't think that's true.

 

[LeftCoast]

It's not about how he looks. I don't care how the guy looks. I can't find the article, but IIRC, it gave specific anecdotes about Desjardins not noticing anything but the on-ice play. It played it as a positive, but given his struggles in areas that this would directly impact, I don't think that's true.

I don't mean to belabour this, but that just means it's someone else's opinion on what is going on in side his head. So it's both hearsay and conjecture.

 

[RobertKron]

I don't mean to belabour this, but that just means it's someone else's opinion on what is going on in side his head. So it's both hearsay and conjecture.

Again, if I'm recalling correctly, some of it was pretty much direct from him.

Aside from all of that, though, I don't even see why conjecture is even so awful in this case. A lot of his flaws as a coach make sense when contextualized this way. Of course, it's possible that he's actually totally keyed in to everything going on around him and is just choosing to make terrible, careless decisions intentionally, but it makes a lot more sense that he's actually just overwhelmed to the point where, for example, his deployment decisions stop making sense. This especially makes sense when you consider how when he's removed from the game situation, a lot of his work actually seems pretty solid.

 

[quat]

"Seven of the NHL's 16 playoff teams were among the league's most penalized clubs for having too many men on the ice, according to STATS" Saturday, October1, 2016.
Toronto Sun


Here you go, the best I could come up with. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the feed back, but it doesn't really counter the overall issue, which is that Willie has led the league (or close to it the first season ... I can't recall now for sure) for the two years he's coached the team. There might be an argument for nitpicking, if there had have been a huge complaint about it the first year, particularly when the club made the playoffs. The best I can recollect is that people recognized the issue, but didn't go on about it to any length.

However, last year it became apparent there was a bigger issue as the Canucks had so many more than their closest 'competition'. It wasn't simply fans pointing that out either as it made the rounds in the media. So now we've got a two season problem that actually grew worse in the second year.

Cut to the first game of the preseason, and Willie pulls two bench minor infractions, one on the PK and out came the posts about his continued struggles with managing his bench.

Given the context of this issue, it's duration and everyone's awareness of it, it's simply not 'nitpicking' to discuss it. This is most definitely an issue with Willie and it's worth following to see if he can fix the problem.

 

[VanJack]

I see a lot of similarities between Willie and John Gibbons of the Blue Jays....nice guys, and popular with their players I'm sure.... but just too set in their ways and stubborn to a fault...when you combine that with poor in-game management, you have the recipe for a losing coach/manager....almost certain that Gibby gets gassed at the end of this season, and unless Willie can adapt, he's sure to follow.

 

[Jyrki21]

It's not about how he looks. I don't care how the guy looks. I can't find the article, but IIRC, it gave specific anecdotes about Desjardins not noticing anything but the on-ice play. It played it as a positive, but given his struggles in areas that this would directly impact, I don't think that's true.

It's this article from Maclean's:

http://www.macleans.ca/society/willie-desjardins-is-a-winner-can-he-make-the-canucks-one/

Desjardins wants to win every game, every practice. He demands accountability at every moment. Behind the bench, he’s a flurry of activity, twitching side to side as he follows the action on the ice, shadow-skating with his players, dodging checks, dancing through the defence, crashing the net. Team trainers once strapped him to a heart monitor. During games, Desjardins’s heart is beating as fast as if he were working out. He’s so focused, he is oblivious to anything above ice level.

Once, in his tenure with the University of Calgary, the school installed an organ above Desjardins’s bench at Father Bauer Arena. Between whistles, the organist pounded out bars from the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. Fans loved it. But it was absurdly loud. When Desjardins got home that night, Rhonda asked him whether the organ had made it hard to hear his players on the bench. Desjardins gave her a blank stare. He hadn’t noticed a thing.

 

[WTG]

Willie "demands accountability", but will throw the young guys under the buss if they make one mistake. He'll also blame them for having a weak team.